Not Again... Americans who can't afford their mortgage up 145%

[st0wandgrow]

Nothing is guaranteed in life. The unexpected happens. It is your job to put aside in times of plenty for the bad times that are sure to come.

Notice how it says even with insurance she was struggling. Thats because obamacare ushered in rediculous premiums for middle class with even higher deductibles.

If we could purchase across state lines and if we had access to catastrophic plans, she may have been fine financially.
Did she herniate her disc carrying couches on her back? Foolish.

Pie, didn't you rely on govt assistance to feed your family? If so, I don't see how you're in any position to be saying the things you're saying. Shit happens to the best of us. That's what social safety nets are for, and that's why I don't mind one bit my tax dollars funding these programs.

My apologies if I'm confusing you with someone else.

 

[ttystikk]

That's where you're wrong.

8 in 10 Americans are swimming in debt. This debt rates anywhere from the thousands of dollars up to the 100's of thousands of dollars. Multiply that by 150 million and it very rapidly leads to a trillion dollars.

That's exactly what caused the housing bubble that led to the 2007-2008 crash: relatively small loans given to not thousands, not millions, but 10's of millions of people who were incapable and/or unwilling to pay them back.

With credit, things work the opposite of how you think: it doesn't roll down hill. It rolls up hill and ends at the big banks who underwrite all of those 10's of millions of little 2500 dollar TV, 150,000 dollar home, 40,000 dollar car purchases.

That's where it all comes from more than anyplace else. Not surprisingly, it's where all the rich get their money from to begin with: the credit taken out by the poor.

One trillion dollars sounds like a lot until you look at how many trillions there are in corporate paper, bonds, stocks and other debt held BY the rich, FOR the rich.

Again, you aren't thinking big enough.

 

[rkymtnman]

With credit, things work the opposite of how you think: it doesn't roll down hill. It rolls up hill and ends at the big banks who underwrite all of those 10's of millions of little 2500 dollar TV, 150,000 dollar home, 40,000 dollar car purchases

that was my point. one guy defaulting on a payday loan won't do much but if alot of people in the same boat do it, you got a problem.

the shit storm starts at the bottom, not the top. the people at the top are well insulated.

 

[whitebb2727]

That's the part that's tricky.

They let it go in the 20's/30's and it led to such devastating results that only WWII was able to bring us out of it. If not for the war, it may have taken decades to get out from under.

That's the big problem today: we just don't know how bad it would get. The banks know this, which is why they keep doing the same things over and over - they're positive that the government simply can't risk a half century of financial devastation and will bail them out to prevent it.

Maybe that's what needs to happen.

Screw it. Let them fall.

 

[whitebb2727]

I think that jailing the perpetrators would be far less destructive to the country and the economy while still holding the right people accountable.

Your way would create another, IMHO needless, Great Depression.

Meh.

Screw it. Maybe millions of starving people will make change.

 

[ttystikk]

You obviously don't know what a credit default swap is.

Remember all those 10's of millions of loans carried by 10's of thousands of banks? Those were all bundled into 10's of millions of 401k's and other investment portfolios. Then, they actually began betting against those very loans because they knew nobody would be able to pay it all off.

That is the definition of what happened. They bet against themselves. They all knew full well nobody would ever pay off all those 10's of millions of bad loans. The credit default swop was just one more way for them to make money before the bottom fell out.

And none of them went to jail, so now they're just doing it again.

WHO bet against all those CDOs?

GOLDMAN SACHS AND THE OTHER BIG BANKS.

You have the answers and you're looking through the mirror, trying to read backwards.

The little guys aren't going to crash the economy. The big banks will.

They must be stopped and broken up before it's too late.

No one seems to have the power or the bully pulpit to do it.

FDR was a great man, but he was batting cleanup, after the disaster. It would be nice if we learned from history, saw the same things happening again, and changed course to prevent another Great Crash and Depression but we apparently are too stupid/greedy/selfish/oblivious to do it.

 

[TacoMac]

Meh.

Screw it. Maybe millions of starving people will make change.

Wrong.

That would cause anarchy, and the collapse of western civilization as we know it.

 

[TacoMac]

And none of them went to jail, so now they're just doing it again.

WHO bet against all those CDOs?

GOLDMAN SACHS AND THE OTHER BIG BANKS.

You have the answers and you're looking through the mirror, trying to read backwards.

The little guys aren't going to crash the economy. The big banks will.

They must be stopped and broken up before it's too late.

No one seems to have the power or the bully pulpit to do it.

FDR was a great man, but he was batting cleanup, after the disaster. It would be nice if we learned from history, saw the same things happening again, and changed course to prevent another Great Crash and Depression but we apparently are too stupid/greedy/selfish/oblivious to do it.

You're preaching to the choir, but you're looking at it all wrong.

Yes, ultimately it was the big banks that caused it all. But the point is that it was a product of the lower 98% of people, mostly lower middle class and poor, that took out all that ridiculous credit on ridiculous terms to begin with.

I'm just telling you where the money all came from. You're acting like it was all the banks money from the outset. It wasn't. Until the second the loan was made to all those people one by one, the money didn't exist.

 

[ttystikk]

Pie, didn't you rely on govt assistance to feed your family? If so, I don't see how you're in any position to be saying the things you're saying. Shit happens to the best of us. That's what social safety nets are for, and that's why I don't mind one bit my tax dollars funding these programs.

My apologies if I'm confusing you with someone else.

You're not confused.

She's an excellent example of the very 'I'm on welfare, but I don't want anyone else to benefit from it' mentality that got Trump elected.

 

[whitebb2727]

Wrong.

That would cause anarchy, and the collapse of western civilization as we know it.

Not necessarily.

People refuse to learn from history and we are doomed to repeat it.

It will happen eventually. It is inevitable.

I say quit bailing them out. Let them fail. I don't think it will be disastrous as people are saying.

If it is, oh well.

 

[ttystikk]

that was my point. one guy defaulting on a payday loan won't do much but if alot of people in the same boat do it, you got a problem.

the shit storm starts at the bottom, not the top. the people at the top are well insulated.

The math simply does not support your contentions.

The bottom 90% put together earn less than the top 10%- who also happen to be by far the biggest holders of debt. Why? Because they have the income and assets to qualify!

Stop blaming the poor for the excesses of the rich. The poor are the perennial victims, not the cause of economic disaster.

 

[TacoMac]

Not necessarily.

People refuse to learn from history and we are doomed to repeat it.

It will happen eventually. It is inevitable.

I say quit bailing them out. Let them fail. I don't think it will be disastrous as people are saying.

If it is, oh well.

Looking at history, mass unemployment and financial hardship on that level for extended periods has always led to mass anarchy and revolution.

Funny that you say we should learn from history while at the very same time refusing to learn from history.

 

[ttystikk]

Meh.

Screw it. Maybe millions of starving people will make change.

Looking at history, mass unemployment and financial hardship on that level for extended periods has always led to mass anarchy and revolution.

Funny that you say we should learn from history while at the very same time refusing to learn from history.

So you would shrug your shoulders and usher in another Great Depression?

While I think there is a better way, I'm far from convinced our system can take advantage of it.

Yours might be the method by which it HAS to happen, because no one in charge will take the advice of those of us who can see the crash coming.

That's how it went last time, after all.

 

[ttystikk]

Excellent discussion, everyone!

Most appreciated!

It's amazing what we can do without the usual cacaphony of insults.

 

[TacoMac]

Excellent discussion, everyone!

Most appreciated!

It's amazing what we can do without the usual cacaphony of insults.

Very true.

 

[rkymtnman]

Yes, ultimately it was the big banks that caused it all. But the point is that it was a product of the lower 98% of people,

exactly. it was a snowballing of all the small loans that defaulted which affected small banks which affected bigger loans which affected bigger banks which eventually got to the top of the pyramid

 

[rkymtnman]

Excellent discussion, everyone!

Most appreciated!

It's amazing what we can do without the usual cacaphony of insults.

are you saying there is hope for RIU after all? LOL

 

[Flaming Pie]

Pie, didn't you rely on govt assistance to feed your family? If so, I don't see how you're in any position to be saying the things you're saying. Shit happens to the best of us. That's what social safety nets are for, and that's why I don't mind one bit my tax dollars funding these programs.

My apologies if I'm confusing you with someone else.

No I do not. We did and now we no longer qualify. People who qualify still have access to help so Im not sure I see your point here.

 

[Flaming Pie]

You're not confused.

She's an excellent example of the very 'I'm on welfare, but I don't want anyone else to benefit from it' mentality that got Trump elected.

I am not on welfare and have never said I didnt want people who qualify not to get aid.

So you are confused.

 

[ttystikk]

exactly. it was a snowballing of all the small loans that defaulted which affected small banks which affected bigger loans which affected bigger banks which eventually got to the top of the pyramid

Classic neoliberal thinking; blame the poor while ignoring the rich stealing the system blind.