Mark Blyth, the economist who's making sense

[ttystikk]

Look at the chart and tell me that malignant racism isn't a part of our economy.

Through good times and bad ones, wage disparity of black men, Hispanic men and women have remained about the same relative to white men. Yours is a riff on the old "rising tides lift all boats". Sure, wages might go up but white men will continue to rake in 20%-30% higher wages until something else changes.

Go through the Justice Democrats platform and tell me how much attention this issue gets. Practically none. One sentence about equal pay for women and a blurb about oppose bigotry which could have something to do with pay sort of maybe. It's not bad, just not complete and needs a second pass with a more diverse group writing it. Unless you don't care about inclusion.

Show me where I ever said racism isn't a big problem in our country.

Show me where I said that ignoring racial issues was a reason I supported the Sanders campaign.

You're barking up the wrong tree.

Mrs Clinton made racial issues worse with her support of the 1996 omnibus crime bill and she's on record as saying she'd continue with that. Is that your idea of a better alternative?

Sanders' campaign wasn't prefect. Unlike the rest of you, I'm not going to let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Yes, the Justice Democrats platform could be better. Why not step up and help out?

Attempting to hold me accountable for people I can't control is ludicrous. Attempting to blame progressives for Trump is worse, because hiding behind such excuses absolves them of any responsibility to do better.

WTF are you hammering at me for, anyway? I'm a lot closer to your position than most here. Alienating me and like minded voters will only see us watching Trump get reelected. That's on YOU, not anyone else.

Why aren't you screaming about the obviously antidemocratic practice of super delegates?

It's too easy to pick on those who won't conform.

When will YOU take some responsibility?

 

[ttystikk]

I'm assuming you're replying to constant conflict? Put him on ignore like I did. You won't be missing out on anything informative, and it makes the riu experience more pleasant.

Please don't take this as me telling you what's in your own best interests though! That's for you, and only you to decide.

You're absolutely right. He hasn't contributed anything to the discussion in months, so I'll take your advice.

 

[abandonconflict]

He literally followed me around for weeks crying over my criticism of Bernard and making it personal with insults and never actually explicating an argument. Now that's he's had his ass handed to him, he runs away, still crying and thinking I won't continue.

Poor oppressed gringo...

 

[ttystikk]

Who is this "Democratic Party" that you refer to? I see it as about 41% nonwhite. That group is getting larger in this country and more of them see their political views best expressed in the Democratic party. Not YOUR Democratic faction which is much less diverse. And you are the one who says HE knows what's best for the darkies.

Your faction is good. I voted with them, what else could I say? I want a great party and that would be one that is more diverse.

Why do you insist on filling my mouth with words I didn't say?

I'm on record here as saying that we NEED our brothers and sisters of all colors, creeds and backgrounds, because only with such diversity of perspective will we be able to find the solutions that work for everyone and not just the privileged few.

 

[ttystikk]

He literally followed me around for weeks crying over my criticism of Bernard and making it personal with insults and never actually explicating an argument. Now that's he's had his ass handed to him, he runs away, still crying and thinking I won't continue.

Poor oppressed gringo...

I'm not crying, I've lost nothing and you're following me, racist.

Hypocrite. You're the one who substitutes abuse for discussion.

 

[_gresh_]

He literally followed me around for weeks crying over my criticism of Bernard and making it personal with insults and never actually explicating an argument. Now that's he's had his ass handed to him, he runs away, still crying and thinking I won't continue.

Poor oppressed gringo...

He needs an echo chamber to function here. Can't stand the fact that some people disagree with his ideas. Slings insults and then cries when he is responded to in kind.

 

[ttystikk]

He needs an echo chamber to function here. Can't stand the fact that some people disagree with his ideas. Slings insults and then cries when he is responded to in kind.

Nah. I was posting interesting material long before any of you showed up.

I've noticed that all you've done here is fling poo instead of engaging in any discussion, yourself.

So that makes you a hypocrite, a sychophant- and a bore. Have a nice day!

 

[_gresh_]

So that makes you a hypocrite, a sychophant- and a bore. Have a nice day!

Case in point.

 

[abandonconflict]

He needs an echo chamber to function here. Can't stand the fact that some people disagree with his ideas. Slings insults and then cries when he is responded to in kind.

Pretty much. You should have seen padaraper's meltdown the other night though, shit was melodramatic as fuck.

 

[abandonconflict]

I was posting interesting material

 

[srh88]

Pretty much. You should have seen padaraper's meltdown the other night though, shit was melodramatic as fuck.

i must of missed it.. dangit

@ttystikk is actually a really cool dude.. the only time i ever see him post anything close to insults are when hes being personally fucked with, and im pretty sure the only reason he doesnt start shit with the racist idiots, is because he doesnt want to deal with the bullshit.

 

[abandonconflict]

i must of missed it.. dangit

@ttystikk is actually a really cool dude.. the only time i ever see him post anything close to insults are when hes being personally fucked with, and im pretty sure the only reason he doesnt start shit with the racist idiots, is because he doesnt want to deal with the bullshit.

I thought so too, but when I started laying in hard on Bernard, this guy immediately went to name-calling and insults while I very specifically avoided that, for days. I even made a long-winded plea for him and his buddies to be rational and argue like grown ups and they ridiculed me for it.

 

[ttystikk]

i must of missed it.. dangit

@ttystikk is actually a really cool dude.. the only time i ever see him post anything close to insults are when hes being personally fucked with, and im pretty sure the only reason he doesnt start shit with the racist idiots, is because he doesnt want to deal with the bullshit.

It's been quite the dogpile for the past week, and with very little substance to any of their arguments.

Ignore solves the problem of having to listen to their blather.

The moderation in this section really sucks, if this is tolerated and allowed to continue on multiple threads. It just ruins the section for anyone who wants an honest debate.

 

[srh88]

I thought so too, but when I started laying in hard on Bernard, this guy immediately went to name-calling and insults while I very specifically avoided that, for days. I even made a long-winded plea for him and his buddies to be rational and argue like grown ups and they ridiculed me for it.

i know from my experience, talking to tty is always pretty cool. other bernie bros not so much. duct tape boy runs around spreading all this equality shit, then gets pissed and calls someone a faggot and is heavily for mens rights. i think his brain got twisted up during a meth binge

 

[srh88]

It's been quite the dogpile for the past week, and with very little substance to any of their arguments.

Ignore solves the problem of having to listen to their blather.

The moderation in this section really sucks, if this is tolerated and allowed to continue on multiple threads. It just ruins the section for anyone who wants an honest debate.

if this section became heavily moderated i probably wouldnt be here as much lol

 

[abandonconflict]

i know from my experience, talking to tty is always pretty cool. other bernie bros not so much. duct tape boy runs around spreading all this equality shit, then gets pissed and calls someone a faggot and is heavily for mens rights. i think his brain got twisted up during a meth binge

I agree with you. He was cool, until he wasn't. Only reason I tried so hard to be cool with the guy for so long.

 

[_gresh_]

if this section became heavily moderated i probably wouldnt be here as much lol

duct tape boy runs around spreading all this equality shit, then gets pissed and calls someone a faggot and is heavily for mens rights. i think his brain got twisted up during a meth binge

Did you notice that tty said nothing about that? At all. No criticism whatsoever.

 

[srh88]

I agree with you. He was cool, until he wasn't. Only reason I tried so hard to be cool with the guy for so long.

with people i like talking to i try not to get sidetracked with politics lol

 

[srh88]

Did you notice that tty said nothing about that? At all. No criticism whatsoever.

i actually did.. that was kind of a let down ill admit.

 

[Fogdog]

I'm just pointing out that the stated belief that anybody who didn't vote for Sanders was unable to decide what is best for them is patronizing, racist, sexist, privileged thinking. In fact, beyond racist in that it dismisses everybody else who doesn't agree. It's about you, babe, not Bernie.

I didn't post that.

Lots of people on American don't know enough about politics to vote in their own best interest.

Self interest, best interest, I don't know man. I suppose you could say they are different. I don't. I'm talking about the decision anybody who votes has to make and what they say about that choice.

Fogdog can you expand on this a bit? How do you define someone's "best interests"? I agree that people vote for their own self interests, but is that the same as their best interests?

Trump is a good example of this. I would venture to say that a lot of people voted for Trump because they hate "Libs", or they hate Hillary, or they liked the dog whistling that he did during the campaign. Those would be self interests. But are those their best interests?

Would someone that is racist, who cast their vote for trump solely because they liked his tough guy rhetoric towards immigrants, but who would have otherwise benefited economically if Hillary were potus be voting in their *best* interests?

I think you are saying that there is an analytical model where we could accurately forecast results of a decision and contrast that decision with the one actually made on the day of the election and so one can objectively test whether or not that decision was in fact the right one according to how well it improved or hurt that person's socioeconomic interests while factoring in group dynamics, reliability of input data, weather and sunspots. Included in this model is a range of probability that the projected outcome is correct, the typical standard for testing the result of a decision with projected outcomes is somewhere between 90% and 95% confidence. Of course later on with 20:20 hindsight that test would be exactly 100%.

Not having seen that model but other models based upon empirical data which this model would have to be based upon, also given the state of our understanding of human behavior, psychology and inherent variability in the population in responses to stress and perceived value, I'd guess that most of the time, "best interest" and "self interest" are statistically indistinguishable when comparing choices made in the voting booth with forecasts for outcomes due to those choices.

And yes, I'm just having fun with writing that but my point is there is no way of analytically knowing at the time of an election what the outcome of the choice will be. Everybody deals with uncertainty by factoring in what they find important. This is what I mean by self interest. The implication of "best" is how well the decision made actually improved a person's status. That cannot be known at the time of the election. But sometimes I use the word best, probably wrongly.

So sue me. And take this all with a grain of salt. I'm tired of arguing and just having fun.