Trump disbands manufacturing councils after mass CEO defection.

[Gquebed]

Can you point out to me an example of what you mean when "economics does play a role in racism" and not the other way around?

And yet another example from a completely different angle.

Bill O'Reilly from fox. How is a guy like that on television? Back in the 90s he would never have been allowed to say the inflammatory racist shit he says in justifying white privilege. So how goes he get away with it?

Economics. That inflammatory shit sells.... to poor white people, who then dress up in bed sheets and swastikas to go protest some cause that is really just an excuse to go provoke a fight....

 

[Gquebed]

Shall i continue?

 

[Fogdog]

And maybe one example to illustrate part of my point is OJ Simpson.

If he was not able to afford the legal team he had he would not have got off on that murder charge. No poor man, brown, red, yellow, white, would have beaten it. And It would have been rapped up in days.

This is true. A really good lawyer can achieve better results. You use a court case where a 1%er won.

And yet, black men are incarcerated at much higher rates for the same crimes as white men. Why would the courts allow such unequal results?

 

[Fogdog]

Shall i continue?

I was out picking green beans. Thanks for your multiple examples.

Your examples are hollow in the face of society's tolerance of this inequality. O'Reily's speech is typcial right wing BS. There have been a few examples where black leaders said the same to widespread condemnation. One is tolerated the other is not. Why do you think this is just an economic problem? The fact that O'Reily is tolerated at all, to me is an example of whites tolerating one-sided hate speech.

 

[Fogdog]

Buck said it well.

Economics. That inflammatory shit sells.... to poor white people, who then dress up in bed sheets and swastikas to go protest some cause that is really just an excuse to go provoke a fight....

i've been broke before and never saw the need to grab a tiki torch and chant nazi slogans while sieg heiling trump.

 

[Fogdog]

Shall i continue?

I hope you do. I'll keep it civil if you can.

 

[Gquebed]

I was out picking green beans. Thanks for your multiple examples.

Your examples are hollow in the face of society's tolerance of this inequality. O'Reily's speech is typcial right wing BS. There have been a few examples where black leaders said the same to widespread condemnation. One is tolerated the other is not. Why do you think this is just an economic problem? The fact that O'Reily is tolerated at all, to me is an example of whites tolerating one-sided hate speech.

I dont think it is just an economic problem. I said it is one part of it in an earlier post. But it is the single biggest factor for many practical reasons.

And again...racism isnt exclusive to the US. Its all over the world. And the common denominator is the same... minorities are discriminated against all over the planet, unless you are rich.

It is that simple. It boils down to the upper class exploiting the lower class. And i dont say this to apologise for white people. There is black on black discrimination, red on yellow and whatever color combo you can imagine.

To me...these white /black riots... they are fighting the wrong fight. All of us need to get together and fight as one against corporate tryanny... otherwise we just continue to fight each other, which is very convenient for the 1% to exploit more...

 

[Gquebed]

Buck said it well.

And this is true for the vast majority of people. But not for all... ad there is the problem.

 

[Fogdog]

I dont think it is just an economic problem. I said it is one part of it in an earlier post. But it is the single biggest factor for many practical reasons.

And again...racism isnt exclusive to the US. Its all over the world. And the common denominator is the same... minorities are discriminated against all over the planet, unless you are rich.

It is that simple. It boils down to the upper class exploiting the lower class. And i dont say this to apologise for white people. There is black on black discrimination, red on yellow and whatever color combo you can imagine.

To me...these white /black riots... they are fighting the wrong fight. All of us need to get together and fight as one against corporate tryanny... otherwise we just continue to fight each other, which is very convenient for the 1% to exploit more...

I'm just going to focus on the US. India has it's own problems with racism and classism and I don't have a vote there.

Surely you don't suggest that victory against corporate tyranny is the solution to racism.

First, we aren't going to win this battle against corporate tyranny divided as we are. Your battle against corporate tyranny will require participation of a vast majority in this country. So, black and brown people will be needed. Their issues will have to be included. Once their issues are included, white people will be less interested. Your battle is lost then and there.

Or do you suggest that people should set aside issues of social inequality until your battle is won?

 

[Fogdog]

And this is true for the vast majority of people. But not for all... ad there is the problem.

I think you just agreed with Buck. Something else is at work other than economic hardship.

 

[Gquebed]

I hope you do. I'll keep it civil if you can.

Okay...why are black people incareated so much more that others...all others combined?

Economics.

The vast majority of poor people in this country are black. So they have less means to defend themselves in legal situations. They are and easy target for law enforcement.

So... in the name of being tough on crime laws are written giving police powers to stop and search at will. But what is the real reason? Could it have something to do with privitization of prisons? Corps get tax dollars for each man in jail. So...buy a prison and lobby your senator for laws that will make it easier to fill for max profit?

Poor minorities are prime targets for that evil. Economics...

 

[Gquebed]

I think you just agreed with Buck. Something else is at work other than economic hardship.

Who said i was disagreeing with anybody.

Im arguing that economics is the primary force for any kind of discrimination...racisim included. It has been this way for thousands of years. Why would that change i the US? Are ypu guys special somehow and better than the rest of the planet and all of history?

 

[Gquebed]

I'm just going to focus on the US. India has it's own problems with racism and classism and I don't have a vote there.

Surely you don't suggest that victory against corporate tyranny is the solution to racism.

First, we aren't going to win this battle against corporate tyranny divided as we are. Your battle against corporate tyranny will require participation of a vast majority in this country. So, black and brown people will be needed. Their issues will have to be included. Once their issues are included, white people will be less interested. Your battle is lost then and there.

Or do you suggest that people should set aside issues of social inequality until your battle is won?

I suggest that the way to unite people is point out their commonalities... and when people of all races begin to see they have far more in common than they do in differences racism tends to evaporate quickly.

Not entirely. We are all biggoted to some degree or another. But at least enough to live and let live. And

 

[Gquebed]

Not sure what the other guy was talking about... probably conspiracy shit or whatever.

But a strong argument can be made for economic injustice as a cause for Charlottesville. Racism is ignorance and ignorance is less often willful and much more often a result of inaccessibility (to information). And the kind of information necessary to eradicate racism is the kind that comes from travel. Once you become the minority and feel the fear of not being able to communicate well in a second language, once you laugh at something funny with somebody you can't actually speak with, once you see how people of other races just want the same things for their friends and family as you do for yours and you see them struggle for those things in the same ways you do yourself... you begin to see that no matter where you go on the planet that people, regardless of the colour of skin and the different noises people make to communicate, are the exact same no matter where you go.

That cost money. More and more with every passing year. That means less and less people have the opportunity to travel and rid themselves of the ignorance that creates racism. And the reason people have less and less money is none other than corporate greed. Almost every last penny of average Joe's wage goes to corporations and the little that doesn't goes to taxes... and even those tax dollars are being siphoned off by corporations more and more.

So ya... what we saw in Charlottesville was economic as well. Very much so. People don't fire up with that kind of insensible rage unless they are already frustrated with other things. Those frustrating things are mostly economic... more and more people are even becoming desperate because of corporate greed.

What happened in Charlottesville is just the beginning. People are angry and getting angrier. The things that will make them boil over will seem less and less reasonable the more desperate they get.

This has happened throughout history. Look at the years before the Russian revolution or the French revolution. There is no shortage of examples through history that show corporate greed is directly related to social injustice... which will make mobs angry enough to topple governments and regimes.

I concur....most certainly...

 

[Fogdog]

Who said i was disagreeing with anybody.

Im arguing that economics is the primary force for any kind of discrimination...racisim included. It has been this way for thousands of years. Why would that change i the US? Are ypu guys special somehow and better than the rest of the planet and all of history?

Again, improve economic conditions without addressing racism and you'll just have racists with more money. So will minorities but the economic disparity and social injustices will persist.

Which is why from what I've heard, read and understand from individual relationships that minority communities are saying they won't put their issues on the back burner anymore. Their issues are as important to them or more so to them as your pay cut.

I will return to this question of racism as the reason for Trump and his white nationalist base.

The following is from https://www.thenation.com/article/economic-anxiety-didnt-make-people-vote-trump-racism-did/

In this study, 4000 people polled. Whites have less economic anxiety. This is not surprising because as already discussed, whites make about 20% more than other groups. And yet, Republicans have more animosity to black people, more racial resentment and are less inclined to be pro immigrant. If I may use Trump as a proxy measure of racism affecting America's vote today, then the answer is pretty clear that economics aren't driving the racism today.

 

[Fogdog]

Okay...why are black people incareated so much more that others...all others combined?

Economics.

The vast majority of poor people in this country are black. So they have less means to defend themselves in legal situations. They are and easy target for law enforcement.

So... in the name of being tough on crime laws are written giving police powers to stop and search at will. But what is the real reason? Could it have something to do with privitization of prisons? Corps get tax dollars for each man in jail. So...buy a prison and lobby your senator for laws that will make it easier to fill for max profit?

Poor minorities are prime targets for that evil. Economics...

Please don't speculate. Please bring facts. I've consistently stated the well documented fact that the rate of incarceration of black men is much higher for the same crimes as white men. To me, that the courts would allow this disparity is evidence of systemic racism in the judicial system.

You speculate that white men are let off because they have the money to hire good lawyers and black men don't. I see nothing to back this claim up.

In any case, even if the reason were economic disparity, why does the justice system tolerate racial bias? Demonstrable racial bias in housing was used to strike down housing laws in Texas. Demonstrable racial bias in hiring practices have been used to reform industries. And yet, demonstrable racial bias in the justice system is tolerated. How is this not evidence of systemic racism in the justice system?

Stepping further back for a minute, are you claiming that there is no racism in this country, just the economic injustice of concentration of wealth in the hands of the 1%? You incorrectly state that the vast majority of poor people in this country are black. This isn't even close to true. I think you meant black communities are disproportionately affected by poverty, which is true. Isn't this evidence of systemic racism?

 

[Gquebed]

Again, improve economic conditions without addressing racism and you'll just have racists with more money. So will minorities but the economic disparity and social injustices will persist.

Which is why from what I've heard, read and understand from individual relationships that minority communities are saying they won't put their issues on the back burner anymore. Their issues are as important to them or more so to them as your pay cut.

I will return to this question of racism as the reason for Trump and his white nationalist base.

The following is from https://www.thenation.com/article/economic-anxiety-didnt-make-people-vote-trump-racism-did/

In this study, 4000 people polled. Whites have less economic anxiety. This is not surprising because as already discussed, whites make about 20% more than other groups. And yet, Republicans have more animosity to black people, more racial resentment and are less inclined to be pro immigrant. If I may use Trump as a proxy measure of racism affecting America's vote today, then the answer is pretty clear that economics aren't driving the racism today.

Well... you can refuse my point all you want. But it has already been decided by far more initiated people than us that economics is by far the largest factor in racism.

 

[Gquebed]

Please don't speculate. Please bring facts. I've consistently stated the well documented fact that the rate of incarceration of black men is much higher for the same crimes as white men. To me, that the courts would allow this disparity is evidence of systemic racism in the judicial system.

You speculate that white men are let off because they have the money to hire good lawyers and black men don't. I see nothing to back this claim up.

In any case, even if the reason were economic disparity, why does the justice system tolerate racial bias? Demonstrable racial bias in housing was used to strike down housing laws in Texas. Demonstrable racial bias in hiring practices have been used to reform industries. And yet, demonstrable racial bias in the justice system is tolerated. How is this not evidence of systemic racism in the justice system?

Stepping further back for a minute, are you claiming that there is no racism in this country, just the economic injustice of concentration of wealth in the hands of the 1%? You incorrectly state that the vast majority of poor people in this country are black. This isn't even close to true. I think you meant black communities are disproportionately affected by poverty, which is true. Isn't this evidence of systemic racism?

Not speculating at all.
It is a fact that the US has the highest jailing ratevon the planet and it is economically driven.
Dont take my word for it.

 

[Gquebed]

@Fogdog

Youre just arguing for the sake of arguing. My point was that economics is a huge factor is racism. I gave you all kinds of examples. But they arent good enough.

So... carry on being dissatisfied... with this...and i imagine many other things.

 

[Fogdog]

Well... you can refuse my point all you want. But it has already been decided by far more initiated people than us that economics is by far the largest factor in racism.

I'd appreciate a link to something with more than opinion to back that up.