TheStickMan
Well-Known Member
Amazing! Some beautiful looking buds there mate! How longs left on those?
315W CMH SIngle Plant DWC SCROG.
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TheStickMan
Well-Known Member
Looking good!!
TheStickMan
Well-Known Member
Fingers crossed she turns out well lol gonna really concentrate on the roots this time. Got a couple of products to help, got a nice microbe tea for her and some other stuff to prevent root rot. Which I'll use the tea one week then clean out the res and then use the other product the next week then the tea and so on! Oh and gone back to my very first smaller bucketyeeehaaa, awesome!
calliandra
Well-Known Member
ooo what's the stuff vs. root rot got in it? If it has any sort of -icides in it, OR there are too many salts circulating (=the ppm stuff you guys use?) the microbial tea isn't going to help much, as the microbes will get killed.. just questioning to prevent any heartache on that account!Fingers crossed she turns out well lol gonna really concentrate on the roots this time. Got a couple of products to help, got a nice microbe tea for her and some other stuff to prevent root rot. Which I'll use the tea one week then clean out the res and then use the other product the next week then the tea and so on! Oh and gone back to my very first smaller bucket
Cool you switched buckets, the other one seemed to be jinxed!!!
horribleherk
Well-Known Member
I've put all my dwc stuff in storage for now as this stuff I'm using called tupur is amended with other things besides coco & so far is really giving me good results even in extreme heat I'll have a better idea of how it's going to perform after I flower them out I'm still getting used to the led lighting as I have 2 of them now 1 @ 340w. & the new one @200w. both are in 3x3 tents which is just shy of 1 m-x-1 m square
TheStickMan
Well-Known Member
Yeah it'll kill the microbes straight off so will use that for one week clean the bucket out and fill with the tea and lower strength nutrients for a week. And just repeat that week by week, never mix them together.ooo what's the stuff vs. root rot got in it? If it has any sort of -icides in it, OR there are too many salts circulating (=the ppm stuff you guys use?) the microbial tea isn't going to help much, as the microbes will get killed.. just questioning to prevent any heartache on that account!
Cool you switched buckets, the other one seemed to be jinxed!!!
And yeah that bucket is evil!!
calliandra
Well-Known Member
I hadn't thought I'd ever say this but, leave the microbe tea away, it'll be disappointing LOLYeah it'll kill the microbes straight off so will use that for one week clean the bucket out and fill with the tea and lower strength nutrients for a week. And just repeat that week by week, never mix them together.
And yeah that bucket is evil!!
But seriously, the thing with microbes is that we give the plant a maximum diversity, and then the plant cultures those she wants by putting out the appropriate root exudates that will grow the bacteria (quickly) and fungi (not soo quickly) who mine the right set of nutrients she needs.
But you're not done there.
You have to have at least protozoa and/or nematodes in there eating those bacteria and fungi and pooping out the excess nutrients (microbial predators need more carbon), thus releasing the nutrients from the miner's bodies in that desired plant-available form. Nevermind nematodes in water (also, they take 2 weeks from egg to egg), but even protozoa, who need 8 hours to reproduce, take their time to build a population that actually does the job well...
What I'm saying is it'll take a few days to get the microbial nutrient cycling going, and just when it's getting nice, comes along Mr Stickman and washes them all out.
end of party lolSo I'd strongly advise against that sort of hybrid culture if youre going for a safe grow - or even microbial DWC in general, as everyone still seems to be trying stuff out in that particular approach too
Cheers!
TheStickMan
Well-Known Member
Haha I like your description. Interesting, it does say in hydro it can be left itn the system 7-14 days before doing a res change, do you reckon it would be worth leaving it for 2 weeks instead or just sack it all together and just use full strength nutes?I hadn't thought I'd ever say this but, leave the microbe tea away, it'll be disappointing LOL
But seriously, the thing with microbes is that we give the plant a maximum diversity, and then the plant cultures those she wants by putting out the appropriate root exudates that will grow the bacteria (quickly) and fungi (not soo quickly) who mine the right set of nutrients she needs.
But you're not done there.
You have to have at least protozoa and/or nematodes in there eating those bacteria and fungi and pooping out the excess nutrients (microbial predators need more carbon), thus releasing the nutrients from the miner's bodies in that desired plant-available form. Nevermind nematodes in water (also, they take 2 weeks from egg to egg), but even protozoa, who need 8 hours to reproduce, take their time to build a population that actually does the job well...
What I'm saying is it'll take a few days to get the microbial nutrient cycling going, and just when it's getting nice, comes along Mr Stickman and washes them all out.
So I'd strongly advise against that sort of hybrid culture if youre going for a safe grow - or even microbial DWC in general, as everyone still seems to be trying stuff out in that particular approach too
Cheers!
Heres link for it
Thanks for the info!
https://ecothrive.co.uk/biosys/
calliandra
Well-Known Member
Hm, I don't know where I get the positive bias for Ecothrive from, also, I notice I am very susceptible to salesspeak hahaHaha I like your description. Interesting, it does say in hydro it can be left itn the system 7-14 days before doing a res change, do you reckon it would be worth leaving it for 2 weeks instead or just sack it all together and just use full strength nutes?
Heres link for it
Thanks for the info!
https://ecothrive.co.uk/biosys/
They make it sound great! but most of the time are just repeating themselves in different ways.
Stepping back from all that lol
So the main protagonists in that mix are the mycorrhizal fungi.
Here again, they need time to establish, so it'd be best to innoculate the plug the seed is sprouted in directly at planting. From there, the plant puts out enzymes that cause the spores to germinate, and directs them to grow in direction of the root, which the purely mycorrhizal ones need to dock onto within about 72 hours, else they'll die. When that is successful and the relationship is established, that can last you throughout the grow unless you're killing them off (I think that's what their reference to those 1.5 EC is about - what does that mean? Can you be feeding your nutes within that limit?).
No predators are needed to maintain that relationship. What still IS needed though, is a community of bacterial helpers, about which we know very little beyond that they are incredibly diverse, with different microbes mining different minerals in ways that can be shared amongst them all. So if they just add a handful of known species, will that cover all the functions usually going on in the rhizosphere to get you a healthy and vigorous plant?
Still not sure.
No one is cycling the nutrients in those bacteria either.
And while the theory of the cycle of living matter holds that root cells can consume entire complex molecules and bacteria by engulfing them and pulling them into their bodies, thus creating impromptu vesicles, similarly to what has been observed in cells lining the gut - can they really nourish themselves that way, without the other nutrient cycling going on?
Or is it rather just the nutrient additions, those "biological catalysts" in the tea that get consumed by the plant directly?
So not sure I trust all that, but would be curious to experiment and observe the microbial buildup in the root system to find out what is really going on there
You definitely can't be switching between hi nutes and this though.
The mycorrhial fungi will get killed every time you switch. And getting them reestablished will just take too long... I usually see my mycorrhized soil plants change aspect after 3 weeks, becoming greener, lusher, and eager to grow (which I attribute to the mycorrhizal cooperation having gotten established) So, really, don't do that haha.
I could see it working out though IF the mycorrhizal network gets well established and the foods getting added really do cover everything the fungi are required to provide to the plant. There's definitely root-rot protection in there, so your thinking is not off at all, it's just how is it practicable in DWC - what exactly does one have to feed, that will offer the broad spectrum of nutes biological nutrient cycling requires for a truly healthy system. I haven't got the faintest clue, really. Actually, I'm currently struggling with similar questions regarding my pot soils, which are soo much more independent (and thus forgiving) than a DWC system that relies 100% on user input!
So basically, in any case you have to decide what your system is going to be, organic or inorganic nutrient sourcing.
The organic road is surely the more exciting & scary experimental one, I just wish I knew someone, anyone, who is successfully doing microbially powered hydroponics and sharing their experiences in a non-cookbook way!
Cheers!
TheStickMan
Well-Known Member
A lot to take in there, it was way too much when I had just woken up this morning, lots of big words!! hahaHm, I don't know where I get the positive bias for Ecothrive from, also, I notice I am very susceptible to salesspeak haha
They make it sound great! but most of the time are just repeating themselves in different ways.
Stepping back from all that lol
So the main protagonists in that mix are the mycorrhizal fungi.
Here again, they need time to establish, so it'd be best to innoculate the plug the seed is sprouted in directly at planting. From there, the plant puts out enzymes that cause the spores to germinate, and directs them to grow in direction of the root, which the purely mycorrhizal ones need to dock onto within about 72 hours, else they'll die. When that is successful and the relationship is established, that can last you throughout the grow unless you're killing them off (I think that's what their reference to those 1.5 EC is about - what does that mean? Can you be feeding your nutes within that limit?).
No predators are needed to maintain that relationship. What still IS needed though, is a community of bacterial helpers, about which we know very little beyond that they are incredibly diverse, with different microbes mining different minerals in ways that can be shared amongst them all. So if they just add a handful of known species, will that cover all the functions usually going on in the rhizosphere to get you a healthy and vigorous plant?
Still not sure.
No one is cycling the nutrients in those bacteria either.
And while the theory of the cycle of living matter holds that root cells can consume entire complex molecules and bacteria by engulfing them and pulling them into their bodies, thus creating impromptu vesicles, similarly to what has been observed in cells lining the gut - can they really nourish themselves that way, without the other nutrient cycling going on?
Or is it rather just the nutrient additions, those "biological catalysts" in the tea that get consumed by the plant directly?
So not sure I trust all that, but would be curious to experiment and observe the microbial buildup in the root system to find out what is really going on there
You definitely can't be switching between hi nutes and this though.
The mycorrhial fungi will get killed every time you switch. And getting them reestablished will just take too long... I usually see my mycorrhized soil plants change aspect after 3 weeks, becoming greener, lusher, and eager to grow (which I attribute to the mycorrhizal cooperation having gotten established) So, really, don't do that haha.
I could see it working out though IF the mycorrhizal network gets well established and the foods getting added really do cover everything the fungi are required to provide to the plant. There's definitely root-rot protection in there, so your thinking is not off at all, it's just how is it practicable in DWC - what exactly does one have to feed, that will offer the broad spectrum of nutes biological nutrient cycling requires for a truly healthy system. I haven't got the faintest clue, really. Actually, I'm currently struggling with similar questions regarding my pot soils, which are soo much more independent (and thus forgiving) than a DWC system that relies 100% on user input!
So basically, in any case you have to decide what your system is going to be, organic or inorganic nutrient sourcing.
The organic road is surely the more exciting & scary experimental one, I just wish I knew someone, anyone, who is successfully doing microbially powered hydroponics and sharing their experiences in a non-cookbook way!
Cheers!
So thats exactly how I started off, soaked the root riot cube in the tea. And I'm guessing thats why they say you need to use the tea within 24 hours? or the poor little buggers will snuff it? Yep, I get that.
So now they are there, they're on the roots, they're loving it. They're having a whale of a time!! I haven't added anything different, nothing to kill them off, theyve just been sat in a homemade high-tec mini DWC system (A measuring jug wrapped in gaffer tape to stop light getting in and an airstone dropped in
), today however ive poured that away and put the plant into the normal bucket, with clean water and half strength nutrients and put a fresh batch of tea in. Will the micorrhizal still be there on the roots? At this point theres no chance of going beyond an EC of 1.5. EC is the electrical conductivity of the water and probably the best way of measuring nutrients. With PPM theres 3 different scales. Theres the EC x 500 and EC x 700 scales which are most common on meters. So on 500 scale an EC of 1.5 would be 750ppm, and on 700 scale the it would be 1050, if my maths is any good lol So a lot of people talk about what PPM they are using and it can be confusing because you don't know what scale they are using. So yeah, anyways, in Veg I certainly won't be be going above 1.5 but in flower its a possibility, depending what the strain likes.
So I'm thinking is it worth just giving it a go, certainly through veg and just test the water so to speak during flower?! I might have a better answer on Saturday, as i'm away until then, see how shes liking the stuff lol i was a bit unsure with the brown water bubbling away! She was looking beautiful and healthy this morning, so fingers crossed!
horribleherk
Well-Known Member
hey stickman I'm sure you'll be up to par in no time I just threw away the last bucket that gave me 2 sick plants I think once they get whatever causes that rot in them it keeps reoccurring in spite of washing it with bleachA lot to take in there, it was way too much when I had just woken up this morning, lots of big words!! haha
So thats exactly how I started off, soaked the root riot cube in the tea. And I'm guessing thats why they say you need to use the tea within 24 hours? or the poor little buggers will snuff it? Yep, I get that.
So now they are there, they're on the roots, they're loving it. They're having a whale of a time!! I haven't added anything different, nothing to kill them off, theyve just been sat in a homemade high-tec mini DWC system (A measuring jug wrapped in gaffer tape to stop light getting in and an airstone dropped in
At this point theres no chance of going beyond an EC of 1.5. EC is the electrical conductivity of the water and probably the best way of measuring nutrients. With PPM theres 3 different scales. Theres the EC x 500 and EC x 700 scales which are most common on meters. So on 500 scale an EC of 1.5 would be 750ppm, and on 700 scale the it would be 1050, if my maths is any good lol So a lot of people talk about what PPM they are using and it can be confusing because you don't know what scale they are using. So yeah, anyways, in Veg I certainly won't be be going above 1.5 but in flower its a possibility, depending what the strain likes.
So I'm thinking is it worth just giving it a go, certainly through veg and just test the water so to speak during flower?! I might have a better answer on Saturday, as i'm away until then, see how shes liking the stuff lol i was a bit unsure with the brown water bubbling away! She was looking beautiful and healthy this morning, so fingers crossed!
Haze the maze
Well-Known Member
That's cool shit can;t wait to see what's what with it.Haha I like your description. Interesting, it does say in hydro it can be left itn the system 7-14 days before doing a res change, do you reckon it would be worth leaving it for 2 weeks instead or just sack it all together and just use full strength nutes?
Heres link for it
Thanks for the info!
https://ecothrive.co.uk/biosys/
So can I toss My HydPer and use this instead?
calliandra
Well-Known Member
Sorry bout the big words hahaA lot to take in there, it was way too much when I had just woken up this morning, lots of big words!! haha
So thats exactly how I started off, soaked the root riot cube in the tea. And I'm guessing thats why they say you need to use the tea within 24 hours? or the poor little buggers will snuff it? Yep, I get that.
So now they are there, they're on the roots, they're loving it. They're having a whale of a time!! I haven't added anything different, nothing to kill them off, theyve just been sat in a homemade high-tec mini DWC system (A measuring jug wrapped in gaffer tape to stop light getting in and an airstone dropped in
At this point theres no chance of going beyond an EC of 1.5. EC is the electrical conductivity of the water and probably the best way of measuring nutrients. With PPM theres 3 different scales. Theres the EC x 500 and EC x 700 scales which are most common on meters. So on 500 scale an EC of 1.5 would be 750ppm, and on 700 scale the it would be 1050, if my maths is any good lol So a lot of people talk about what PPM they are using and it can be confusing because you don't know what scale they are using. So yeah, anyways, in Veg I certainly won't be be going above 1.5 but in flower its a possibility, depending what the strain likes.
So I'm thinking is it worth just giving it a go, certainly through veg and just test the water so to speak during flower?! I might have a better answer on Saturday, as i'm away until then, see how shes liking the stuff lol i was a bit unsure with the brown water bubbling away! She was looking beautiful and healthy this morning, so fingers crossed!
Aw cool, so you've started! This is going to be really exciting and I'm all frustrated I don't live around the corner to get some samples off those roots to check on the mycos' progress... maybe we can do a sample in a week or so via mail, though I'd need to ponder how best to preserve the sample during transport...
Thanks for explaining the EC! Assuming they meant the lower scale, 750ppm still sounds higher than I would have thought. The measure I have down as the maximum refers to soil and I have no idea how to transpose that to DWC - anything above 100 pounds per acre is going to start killing off the soil ecosystem (and the poor synthetic farmers are dumping thousands of pounds of stuff per reccommendation....)
I just remembered another thing: if the plant is too well-fed, she's not going to encourage mycorrhizal colonization, since everythings there anyway and mycorrhizal associations do cost the plant the effort of feeding the fungi too (they provide carbon in exchange for the water, nutes and protection the fungi provide).
So how long has your plant been exposed to the spores in the tea? That is, how old was your girl yesterday?
And how high was the ppm of the half-strength nutes? I suspect just the nutes included in the Ecothrive may have been enough for this week BUT chances are good associations were already begun whilst she was in the hitech mini DWC
So yeah, fingers crossed they took and are growing a nice mycelial network that will keep those roots nicely protected in there this week!!
Enigma
Well-Known Member
calliandra
Well-Known Member
Since they're nearing chop (actually, it was to ponder when I'd do it), my princesses had a daylight-photoshooting today, at day 78.
Just gotta share them pix!
Pineapple Express Auto (Fastbuds) in 15L soil
9 tips and a lawn
size orientation 
mainbud and the youngster who shot up and exploded into bloom long after the others lol
getting those anthocyanin - trichs, never had them on the PE before
THis time, it took until today for her to start smelling of pineapple - she's been through all sorts of aromas this round. Getting the chop on Friday probably
And the Mephisto Skylar White in 10L soil
9 tips
her curliness lol
the mainbud
and the 2nd tallest
She's just started fattening, so has a good week or so till her time.
Smelling amazingly of tuttifrutti bubblegum
Cheers!
Just gotta share them pix!
Pineapple Express Auto (Fastbuds) in 15L soil
9 tips and a lawn size orientation mainbud and the youngster who shot up and exploded into bloom long after the others lol getting those anthocyanin - trichs, never had them on the PE beforeTHis time, it took until today for her to start smelling of pineapple - she's been through all sorts of aromas this round. Getting the chop on Friday probably
And the Mephisto Skylar White in 10L soil
9 tips her curliness lol the mainbud and the 2nd tallestShe's just started fattening, so has a good week or so till her time.
Smelling amazingly of tuttifrutti bubblegum
Cheers!
TheStickMan
Well-Known Member
Yeah that would be great, although wouldn't the water need to be airated or they'd just die?Sorry bout the big words haha
Aw cool, so you've started! This is going to be really exciting and I'm all frustrated I don't live around the corner to get some samples off those roots to check on the mycos' progress... maybe we can do a sample in a week or so via mail, though I'd need to ponder how best to preserve the sample during transport...
Thanks for explaining the EC! Assuming they meant the lower scale, 750ppm still sounds higher than I would have thought. The measure I have down as the maximum refers to soil and I have no idea how to transpose that to DWC - anything above 100 pounds per acre is going to start killing off the soil ecosystem (and the poor synthetic farmers are dumping thousands of pounds of stuff per reccommendation....)
I just remembered another thing: if the plant is too well-fed, she's not going to encourage mycorrhizal colonization, since everythings there anyway and mycorrhizal associations do cost the plant the effort of feeding the fungi too (they provide carbon in exchange for the water, nutes and protection the fungi provide).
So how long has your plant been exposed to the spores in the tea? That is, how old was your girl yesterday?
And how high was the ppm of the half-strength nutes? I suspect just the nutes included in the Ecothrive may have been enough for this week BUT chances are good associations were already begun whilst she was in the hitech mini DWC
So yeah, fingers crossed they took and are growing a nice mycelial network that will keep those roots nicely protected in there this week!!
The EC was 0.3 when I fed her, so hardly anything at all (210ppm on the higher scale) and it was 3 weeks ago today that I planted the seed, and she took arund 2/3 days to surface. Can't wait to see how she's getting on!
Enigma
Well-Known Member
TheStickMan
Well-Known Member
Oh wow!Since they're nearing chop (actually, it was to ponder when I'd do it), my princesses had a daylight-photoshooting today, at day 78.
Just gotta share them pix!
Pineapple Express Auto (Fastbuds) in 15L soil
View attachment 4017657 9 tips and a lawn
View attachment 4017658 size orientation
View attachment 4017659 View attachment 4017660 mainbud and the youngster who shot up and exploded into bloom long after the others lol
View attachment 4017661 View attachment 4017662 getting those anthocyanin - trichs, never had them on the PE before
THis time, it took until today for her to start smelling of pineapple - she's been through all sorts of aromas this round. Getting the chop on Friday probably
And the Mephisto Skylar White in 10L soil
View attachment 4017667 9 tips
View attachment 4017669 her curliness lol
View attachment 4017670 the mainbud
View attachment 4017673 and the 2nd tallest
She's just started fattening, so has a good week or so till her time.
Smelling amazingly of tuttifrutti bubblegum
Cheers!
Had to stick my sunglasses on with all the frostiness!! hahaThe colours on the PE are amazing! And the coloured trichs as well! Is the strain known to go that colour?
Love the training as well. And Skylar White living up to her name lol
TheStickMan
Well-Known Member
Enigma
Well-Known Member
The anxiety lol i'm always nervous at this stage lol
How are you getting along?
Great!
I ordered COBs from TastyLED.com and I decided it wasn't enough for my specifications so I'm ordering more!
Bridgelux Vero 29 C, I'm driving them with Mean Wells at a max of 1050 mA which will provide ~70 W each, passively cooled, mixed spectrum and a maximum of 2100 PPF.
Obviously, that will kill anything under them so I have potentiometers to dial it down.
The cabinet is painted and awaiting sectioning, security and the COB fixture.
I'll be popping Herijuana beans soon with Cataract Kush and Sour Grape to follow. My goal is a conservative 224 grams, about 1.6 g/W since I can only push about 140 W without killing the girls.
If all goes well, I plan to get more COBs from TastyLED and build a test tent for 490 W, then 2 kW.
