A per se cut-off of 2ng THC would mean patients would have to stop using medication 3-7 days or more

gb123

Well-Known Member
lol can you say full disability? (:

Zaid, Valleriani and Thurley: Impaired driving bill overly targets medical cannabis users

Recently, the House of Commons Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights has focused its attention on Bill C-46, which will tighten impaired driving laws, particularly cannabis impaired driving.

While there is no disagreement that laws targeting impaired driving should be strongly enforced, and the government has taken a positive step forward in contemplating impaired driving law reforms, the proposed testing and enforcement mechanisms in Bill C-46 raise significant questions and concerns around civil liberties and human rights.

The law as proposed would criminalize Canadians who use medical cannabis responsibly – even when they are not actually impaired.

While no one should drive impaired, the proposed changes will serve to disproportionately criminalize the estimated 150,000 individuals who use cannabis legally and regularly for medical reasons, with physician support, across Canada.

That’s why it’s so disappointing that patients and patient advocacy groups, including Canadians for Fair Access to Medical Marijuana, were denied an invitation to express their views at these sessions.

The proposed changes to driving impairment laws will introduce per se limits for cannabis, similar to how we identify those driving under the influence of alcohol. While this may make sense on the surface, the science simply isn’t there when it comes to correlating cannabis use and impairment.

Unlike blood alcohol concentration, which is scientifically linked to levels of impairment, matching impairment to levels of THC – the main psychoactive component in cannabis – is still widely debated.

Determining actual impairment of cognitive, psychomotor and other functions necessary to safely drive is not as simple as measuring the presence of THC in blood. Even more importantly, the effects of THC are different from person-to-person, and THC can remain detectable within a regular user’s blood for days, potentially weeks, after it was last consumed.

It should also be said that authorized medical users are expected to follow advice from health-care providers, including safe-use guidelines, such as waiting at least four-to-six hours after consumption before driving to help eliminate risk of impairment.

However, the government’s proposal, which would set a per se cut-off of 2ng/ml THC at the lower end, would mean patients would have to stop using their medication three-to-seven days (or more) before driving, which has nothing to do with impairment.

For many patients, using medical cannabis isn’t about its psychoactive effects, but rather managing their symptoms with minimal impairment. This presents novel challenges that deserve consideration and a voice when it comes to the practicalities of “impaired” driving laws.

Given this context, do we simply allow the undisputed potential criminalization of responsible medical users without allowing them to participate in this important debate?

Allowing for a diverse and inclusive conversation can assist policy-makers in acknowledging the various experiences and realities of Canadians prescribed medical cannabis.

Without it, overly restrictive and blanket regulation that does not duly consider the most vulnerable, key affected populations will simply lead to ineffective policy and ongoing court challenges.

While the issue is undeniably complex, and medical cannabis authorization is not a licence to drive impaired, at the very least, the justice committee should be allowing for testimony from patients, physicians and scientists on how these laws may affect medical users.

If they use cannabis regularly to manage their symptoms, they will consistently test above the per se limits. This means the proposed bill would disproportionately criminalize a vulnerable and already stigmatized population under a legal system.

After all, the point of regulating cannabis is not to increase harms through laws which may overly criminalize legal medical users, but rather should be focused on undoing many of the harms which, from a medical viewpoint, have contributed to additional barriers in research, accessing medical cannabis and the ongoing stigmatization of medical use.
 

gb123

Well-Known Member
2ng/ml THC at the lower end, would mean patients would have to stop using their medication three-to-seven days (or more) before driving, which has nothing to do with impairment.
:lol:
 

cannadan

Well-Known Member
I mentioned disability for this exact reason about two weeks ago...
they are going to force me to give up my licence then I will not be able to work....leaving only option as disabled..
 

CalyxCrusher

Well-Known Member
There's a reason they didnt invite people to debate or offer alternative solutions on this matter. They know theyre in the wrong and dont care. Theyll push it through to make the deadline and worry about challenges and amendments later. This has been their approach to medical cannabis from the get go
 

Farmer.J

Well-Known Member
I mentioned disability for this exact reason about two weeks ago...
they are going to force me to give up my licence then I will not be able to work....leaving only option as disabled..
The question is, why does the government want to classify a huge group of useful people as disabled?
 

VIANARCHRIS

Well-Known Member
Here's a twist. I am able to work BECAUSE of cannabis. They wrote me off at 47 and gave me cpp disability because I couldn't function on the pain meds and anti-depressants they were feeding me. I gave up all pharma drugs and the doctors who were pushing them in 2012 and it's been cannabis ever since. And while my employment options are limited by my disability, I managed to find a niche where I can work my own hours, medicate as needed and stay home on my 'bad' days. I'm not getting rich, but I don't feel like a societal cast-off like I did a few years back. The laid-back island lifestyle is a healing influence, imo,...and I get that free with the job! lol
 

VIANARCHRIS

Well-Known Member
madd is pure scrum at it filthiest level...hate those mother fucker real bad!!!!!
I'd buy a homeless drunk a bottle of Crown Royal before I'd donate a minute of thought to MADD. They are an alt-right political organization without official status. They are actually breaking the law by not being registered an a official lobbyist with government. They need to stick with their war on booze and keep the fuck out of cannabis. Every one of them has a skeleton in their closet and if they can't keep their nose out of my business, I might have to do a little digging myself.
 

greg nr

Well-Known Member
no, No, NO.

It's not about how much medication a patient needs or what it does to their blood levels of metabolites.

It's about IMPAIRMENT. Nobody should drive impaired, but the numbers arbitrarily set don't measure impairment, just use.

Now if you run a 1000 double blind studies of driver reaction times and abilities, and you come up with a number that shows above this limit, 95% of test subjects showed impairment similar to a bac of 0,08 %. then you have a basis for the number.

Sticking your finger up the butt of a fellow committee member, licking it, then holding it up to tell wind speed is not a scientific measurement of impairment.
 

HotWaterKarl

Well-Known Member
no, No, NO.

It's not about how much medication a patient needs or what it does to their blood levels of metabolites.

It's about IMPAIRMENT. Nobody should drive impaired, but the numbers arbitrarily set don't measure impairment, just use.

Now if you run a 1000 double blind studies of driver reaction times and abilities, and you come up with a number that shows above this limit, 95% of test subjects showed impairment similar to a bac of 0,08 %. then you have a basis for the number.

Sticking your finger up the butt of a fellow committee member, licking it, then holding it up to tell wind speed is not a scientific measurement of impairment.
LOL, that's about how they did it.
 

Farmer.J

Well-Known Member
Maybe nanograms is the wrong unit of measurement to use. Other indicators like Blood pressure, heart rate or maybe blood oxygen levels should be compared to reaction times instead of blood content of a substance with such a long half-life.
Fatigue can impair someone but there is no test to prove fatigue. The only proof a person was too fatigued to drive is if they admit it themselves. The only real proof a person was too stoned to drive is the same, only if the individual admits it.
 

VIANARCHRIS

Well-Known Member
no, No, NO.

It's not about how much medication a patient needs or what it does to their blood levels of metabolites.

It's about IMPAIRMENT. Nobody should drive impaired, but the numbers arbitrarily set don't measure impairment, just use.

Now if you run a 1000 double blind studies of driver reaction times and abilities, and you come up with a number that shows above this limit, 95% of test subjects showed impairment similar to a bac of 0,08 %. then you have a basis for the number.

Sticking your finger up the butt of a fellow committee member, licking it, then holding it up to tell wind speed is not a scientific measurement of impairment.
Without such a study, the law will be unconstitutional. They also need to do similar studies for all prescription meds. This law is dead before it starts.
 

VIANARCHRIS

Well-Known Member
Maybe nanograms is the wrong unit of measurement to use. Other indicators like Blood pressure, heart rate or maybe blood oxygen levels should be compared to reaction times instead of blood content of a substance with such a long half-life.
Fatigue can impair someone but there is no test to prove fatigue. The only proof a person was too fatigued to drive is if they admit it themselves. The only real proof a person was too stoned to drive is the same, only if the individual admits it.
It's 7:30 am and I am smoking my third joint of the day. I will have 2 more before I get to work and several while I'm there. I am not impaired and completely capable of driving, which I will do throughout the day. I guarantee I woke up with over 2 ng !
 

clouds

Well-Known Member
my boss for shits and giggles got some to test and asked me not to smoke for 3 days. after that we tested before and after a joint before i smoked i was at 22 NG after a joint i was at 31 we laughed and he said well you can never drive. he clocked in lower then me he was at 15 ng and finished at 26 after the joint. some of the tests they did showed a half a joint can raise some people's lvls 15-20 ng but on others its only raised it a little from 5-15 ng. i have seen some articles with people not smoking for 5 days before being tested and thay are above 35ng
 
Top