How strong can tinctures get?

Skunk smell

Well-Known Member
I have been making tinctures with my magical butter machine,and they turn out pretty good.I use 151 proof Everclear (can't get 190 proof in my state).I was wondering if I could just keep reusing the alcohol whenver I have extra weed I want to get rid before it get's stale,and just keep making my tincture stronger.Is there a point of diminishing returns doing this?I have read tinctures can last a very long time when stored properly,as opposed to weed in flower form.Anyone here do this?
 

cookie master

Well-Known Member
you could always concentrate it by evaporation. How are you using it? Im guessing under the tongue? Im about to rub some wax on my knee and it does the trick.
 

Fadedawg

Well-Known Member
So what would be the most I could extract into 2 cups of everclear?
16 ounces X .789 sp gravity = 12.6 ounces of Ethanol solvent
12.6 X .33 saturation = 4.2 ounces solute
4.2 X 28.3 gm/oz = ~119 grams solute

As noted by CM, you can remove alcohol to make it more concentrated, you're just limited on what you can extract with it.
 

Skunk smell

Well-Known Member
16 ounces X .789 sp gravity = 12.6 ounces of Ethanol solvent
12.6 X .33 saturation = 4.2 ounces solute
4.2 X 28.3 gm/oz = ~119 grams solute

As noted by CM, you can remove alcohol to make it more concentrated, you're just limited on what you can extract with it.
I am not trying to achieve any certain amount of concentration,I would just like to know how much 2 cups of 151 proof everclear will hold,before going over the saturation point.I am just looking for a way to make tinctures using the least amount of alcohol,to save money.Are you saying 2 cups will hold 4.2 ounces of flower?Sorry,you will have to dumb this down for me to understand better.
 

Fadedawg

Well-Known Member
I am not trying to achieve any certain amount of concentration,I would just like to know how much 2 cups of 151 proof everclear will hold,before going over the saturation point.I am just looking for a way to make tinctures using the least amount of alcohol,to save money.Are you saying 2 cups will hold 4.2 ounces of flower?Sorry,you will have to dumb this down for me to understand better.
Consider going at it from a different direction?? The larger issue is what volume of ethanol does it require to cover the amount of material that you are extracting.

At 1:1 volume/volume, that will not reach the saturation point, so you would ostensibly have to extract more than one volume of material to reach saturation, and it would be a point of diminishing returns.

You are complicating it by using watered down ethanol, and suggest that you order 190 proof delivered from one of the on line sources like: http://www.winechateau.com/ or http://organicalcohol.com/store/

A more straightforward method would be to extract using as much alcohol as it takes to fully submerge the plant material, and then recover some portion of it using a still, ISO-3 or 4, Extract Craft Turbo, rotovape, or etc, so you have the concentration you desire and just reuse the recovered alcohol.
 

canadian1969

Well-Known Member
I hope this doesnt confuse the situation, but the OP is infusing alcohol with that butter machine (way cool btw, never seen one) I just might buy one today just to play with, (thanks OP)

So I have to make the assumption that he is using the tincture internally as a dosing method. Or whatever, but he doesn't seem to be doing any further extraction on the product, the use of the word tincture sort of implies this. Correct me if I am wrong. So here's the deal if thats the case, also assuming you would store the tincture in a cool dark place. maybe even the refrigerator. So you have three variables here, temperature pressure and the purity of the solution. As others have already demonstrated the water content of the solution will alter its saturation point, as would anything else that may be dissolved in the water alcohol solution. Atmospheric pressure I think would also affect solubility, lets assume sea level and room temp.... I looked for solubility tables for cannabinoids but came up zippo.
However,
The alcohol will as a matter of physics hold more oils in solution at warmer temperatures. So what happens if you store it at a different cooler temperature? I would think that the oils would precipitate out of the solution. But only if you reached saturation at that warmer temperature. As you lower the temperature the saturation point changes and the solution has to precipitate oils. I recall doing a similar experiment with salt water in grade nine science. perhaps you could do that exact experiment. Start with fresh alcohol and just keep infusing and storing until you see oils in the bottom. Then measure your dry herb total weight. (and hopefully you would post back the results)
 

Fadedawg

Well-Known Member
I hope this doesnt confuse the situation, but the OP is infusing alcohol with that butter machine (way cool btw, never seen one) I just might buy one today just to play with, (thanks OP)

So I have to make the assumption that he is using the tincture internally as a dosing method. Or whatever, but he doesn't seem to be doing any further extraction on the product, the use of the word tincture sort of implies this. Correct me if I am wrong. So here's the deal if thats the case, also assuming you would store the tincture in a cool dark place. maybe even the refrigerator. So you have three variables here, temperature pressure and the purity of the solution. As others have already demonstrated the water content of the solution will alter its saturation point, as would anything else that may be dissolved in the water alcohol solution. Atmospheric pressure I think would also affect solubility, lets assume sea level and room temp.... I looked for solubility tables for cannabinoids but came up zippo.
However,
The alcohol will as a matter of physics hold more oils in solution at warmer temperatures. So what happens if you store it at a different cooler temperature? I would think that the oils would precipitate out of the solution. But only if you reached saturation at that warmer temperature. As you lower the temperature the saturation point changes and the solution has to precipitate oils. I recall doing a similar experiment with salt water in grade nine science. perhaps you could do that exact experiment. Start with fresh alcohol and just keep infusing and storing until you see oils in the bottom. Then measure your dry herb total weight. (and hopefully you would post back the results)
Once in solution, the oil and ethanol will mix at any ratio. It is just limited to how much it will extract before grinding to a crawl long before saturation.
 

Fadedawg

Well-Known Member
Pure THC-A is a crystal, THC a phenolic resin, and extraction is an essential oil mixture. The essential oil, or THC phenolic resin and alcohol will mix at any ratio, switching places as the menstruum and solute at 50%.

I also question the numbers or at least my understanding of the numbers shown of 606mg/oz

At a specific gravity of 1.002 to 1.012. 606 mg would be about 602 ml per 1 fluid oz/ or 29.735 ml. 602/29.735 = 20:1 THC
 
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BigHornBuds

Well-Known Member
Pure THC is a crystal, and extraction is an essential oil. The essential oil and alcohol will mix at any ratio, switching places as the menstruum and solute at 50%.

I also question the numbers or at least my understanding of the numbers shown of 606mg/oz

At a specific gravity of 1.002 to 1.012. 606 mg would be about 602 ml per 1 fluid oz/ or 29.735 ml. 602/29.735 = 20:1 THC
Isn’t pure THC a clear oil?
Can you show any pics of pure THC crystals
 

Fadedawg

Well-Known Member
Isn’t pure THC a clear oil?
Can you show any pics of pure THC crystals
Sorry, I mispoke. THC-A is a crystalline carboxylic acid before decarboxylation to THC which is a phenolic resin.

THC-A crystals on left. Light yellow crystalline solid. The resin on the right is actually d8-THC that was scavenged from the third short path distillation fraction, by going up to 250C, so was dark. It would normally be light yellow as well.

Extractions are a mixture of various terpene, cannabinoid, etc fractions.

Thanks for noticing, I amended the original post to reflect that.
 

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BigHornBuds

Well-Known Member
Sorry, I mispoke. THC-A is a crystalline carboxylic acid before decarboxylation to THC which is a phenolic resin.

THC-A crystals on left. Light yellow crystalline solid. The resin on the right is actually d8-THC that was scavenged from the third short path distillation fraction, by going up to 250C, so was dark. It would normally be light yellow as well.

Extractions are a mixture of various terpene, cannabinoid, etc fractions.

Thanks for noticing, I amended the original post to reflect that.
Thanks for the info
I can see you your a lot more advanced then myself, just trying to learn....
Wish I had a chemist mentor
 

Skunk smell

Well-Known Member
Ok,so I ordered some 190 proof everclear,so hopefully that will simplify things.My Magic Butter machine will hold 2-5 cups of Everclear and up to 1 oz. of flower per cycle.My plan is to use 2 cups of Everclear with 1 oz. of flower,run the cycle ,strain,add another 1 oz. flower to the solution,repeat.So my question is,how many times can I do this before I reach the saturation point?I am not looking for exact numbers,just a close estimate.
 

Fadedawg

Well-Known Member
Ok,so I ordered some 190 proof everclear,so hopefully that will simplify things.My Magic Butter machine will hold 2-5 cups of Everclear and up to 1 oz. of flower per cycle.My plan is to use 2 cups of Everclear with 1 oz. of flower,run the cycle ,strain,add another 1 oz. flower to the solution,repeat.So my question is,how many times can I do this before I reach the saturation point?I am not looking for exact numbers,just a close estimate.
A reasonable guess might be about 2 to three, but you will be leaving saturated alcohol behind on the material, so should rinse it again with clean alcohol and check material with a microscope afterwards to gauge progress.
 

canadian1969

Well-Known Member
maybe weight the source material (1 oz) after the process, determine solvent losses that way? Then rinse the material with the replacement amount. might not be significant enough to rinse with tho
 
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