Too much heat, or other issue?

[Keegan12L]

Hey guys. This is my first grow and have a small issue that looks to be too much light(I adjusted the light up to 24in from 18in)
My setup:


Quantum Board 260watt kit now 24in above
3x3 tent
5 gallon bucket w/ 3 gal res
pH 5.8
PPM 60 (just did a res change and it's now 140. I am using tap water that starts out 0ppm)
GH Flora Trio nutes (2mL ea micro,gro,bloom)
Cal-mag (4mL)
Hydroguard (5mL)
Res temps were 72-79(just setup to vent outside and should be lower now. With res change water is 66 degrees)
Temp was getting up to 85(lights at 18in) and is now around 75 with outside vent/24in above plant.
Humidity 50-70%
Night temps DONT drop below 70 and RH stays around 60%.

The amount of nutes/beneficials are for the whole 3 gal res.



I saw the leaves turn up a day ago and I set the light to 24 inches above the plant instead of 18. On the left side there is a very small yellow spot also. This White Widow is about a week-1 1/2 weeks from sprout. I did a res change today and put above half of recommended amount. It had about 1/4 strength before. I added nutes(way too many) early and it stunted the growth. Changed res out and added very small amount in and it has since grown to this. I figured 1/2 strength would be ok, but will watch for nute burn. Any tips/advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Keegan12L]

I have ruled out light as the issue and am thinking more of a nutrient problem. On Sunday she drooped even more so I changed out the res with no nutes 0ppm water and left for a day. Nothing really changed so I added about 1/8 nutes(20ppm) just to have something in the water.
I switched my setup a little bit and now vent outside which keeps my res temps below 71. My PPM this morning was 30. pH was up to 6.3 so I adjusted back down to 5.7-5.8 and will wait to see.


Maybe this is just a case of a newbie overthinking, but she went a little more yellowish and droopy then before.

 

[JSB99]

Hey guys. This is my first grow and have a small issue that looks to be too much light(I adjusted the light up to 24in from 18in)
My setup:


Quantum Board 260watt kit now 24in above
3x3 tent
5 gallon bucket w/ 3 gal res
pH 5.8
PPM 60 (just did a res change and it's now 140. I am using tap water that starts out 0ppm)
GH Flora Trio nutes (2mL ea micro,gro,bloom)
Cal-mag (4mL)
Hydroguard (5mL)
Res temps were 72-79(just setup to vent outside and should be lower now. With res change water is 66 degrees)
Temp was getting up to 85(lights at 18in) and is now around 75 with outside vent/24in above plant.
Humidity 50-70%
Night temps DONT drop below 70 and RH stays around 60%.

The amount of nutes/beneficials are for the whole 3 gal res.

View attachment 4083877

I saw the leaves turn up a day ago and I set the light to 24 inches above the plant instead of 18. On the left side there is a very small yellow spot also. This White Widow is about a week-1 1/2 weeks from sprout. I did a res change today and put above half of recommended amount. It had about 1/4 strength before. I added nutes(way too many) early and it stunted the growth. Changed res out and added very small amount in and it has since grown to this. I figured 1/2 strength would be ok, but will watch for nute burn. Any tips/advice would be greatly appreciated.

Okay, step back from your little one and take a deep breath, and relax a little . You've got a thousand things going on and you're trying to throw a thosand fixes at it, but that usually leads to more trouble.

Let's go over these one at a time, and see if we can get you on the right path.

First off, you should either be hand watering your sprout, or move your drip ring, to where an edge is very close to the sprout. You're going to have problems getting water to the roots when they're that small.

Hey guys. This is my first grow and have a small issue that looks to be too much light(I adjusted the light up to 24in from 18in)

I don't have any direct experience with LEDs, except for research. But, if your leaves are curling up, then you are having heat issues. This could be from having your light too close, or not enough exhaust to keep your tent cool. Starts don't need a lot of intense light (think of Spring). I would raise your light another 12". If she starts to stretch for the light, then bring it closer.

Even though it's LED, you are wasting a lot of light and power, for a single sprout. A much better option would be to hang a single, 23 watt CFL a few inches above the plant. Probably 5" to 6" to start. You can even use a couple, once it gets a little bigger, and veg for the first week or so.

5 gallon bucket w/ 3 gal res

You should think about using a larger reservoir. If you can't fit one in your tent, you can always have it outside, and slice the tent where you want your pipes/tubes to pass though. This will help keep your water temps down. 72-79 is too warm. You should be shooting for just below 70.

A larger reservoir helps keep temps down, and helps keep nutes/pH levels in check.

PPM 60 (just did a res change and it's now 140. I am using tap water that starts out 0ppm)

You should be good at around 150ppm - 180ppm. Make sure you balance your pH after adding nutes. Nutes will change your pH levels when you add it.

GH Flora Trio nutes (2mL ea micro,gro,bloom)

Follow the "Recirculating Feeding Chart" from GH. After you run out of the Trio, I would switch to the Maxi powder. You only have "Grow" and "Bloom", so you don't have to mix anything. Works awesome!

Cal-mag (4mL)

You don't need to use Cal-Mag. If you were growing via "Coco Coir", you'd need to add it. But not with DWC.

Temp was getting up to 85(lights at 18in) and is now around 75 with outside vent/24in above plant.

Your plants can handle 85, but that's a little high to account for tempature fluxuations. On warm days, your temps could jump 7 - 10 degrees, then you're getting into temps where your plant isn't growing. When your plants hit 95, they stop growing.

What kind of fan are you using to vent your tent? At the minimum, you should have at least a 4" inline exhaust fan, carbon scrubber, and speed controller. You can get packages for pretty low prices on Amazon. Search for "VenTech 4-inch exhaust fan" on Amazon. Also, what kind of circulation fans are you using? These fans are crucial for your plants, as your plants need air moving around them. Again, on Amazon you can get "6 inch clip-on fans", that work great in tents. Tons of people use these, including myself.

Night temps DONT drop below 70 and RH stays around 60%.

I think that's okay. You want a 10 to 15 degree drop. Lower than 15 degrees starts causing issues with the plants.


Hope all this has helped. I tried to be as accurate as possible with my info, but I'm sure others will add some ideas and voice their opinions

These are my Bonsai Mums (small mother plants), under florescents. One of them is my White Widow. Can't see the labels Point is, you can get your plant pretty big, with less energy wasted. LEDs are awesome, and I'll be building mine sometime soon. But sometimes there are other, cheaper ways than even LEDs

 

[JSB99]

I have ruled out light as the issue and am thinking more of a nutrient problem. On Sunday she drooped even more so I changed out the res with no nutes 0ppm water and left for a day. Nothing really changed so I added about 1/8 nutes(20ppm) just to have something in the water.
I switched my setup a little bit and now vent outside which keeps my res temps below 71. My PPM this morning was 30. pH was up to 6.3 so I adjusted back down to 5.7-5.8 and will wait to see.
View attachment 4085248

Maybe this is just a case of a newbie overthinking, but she went a little more yellowish and droopy then before.

BTW, the drooping may be because your drip ring isn't close enough to the sprout to get water to the roots.

 

[JSB99]

Okay, step back from your little one and take a deep breath, and relax a little . You've got a thousand things going on and you're trying to throw a thosand fixes at it, but that usually leads to more trouble.

Let's go over these one at a time, and see if we can get you on the right path.

First off, you should either be hand watering your sprout, or move your drip ring, to where an edge is very close to the sprout. You're going to have problems getting water to the roots when they're that small.


I don't have any direct experience with LEDs, except for research. But, if your leaves are curling up, then you are having heat issues. This could be from having your light too close, or not enough exhaust to keep your tent cool. Starts don't need a lot of intense light (think of Spring). I would raise your light another 12". If she starts to stretch for the light, then bring it closer.

Even though it's LED, you are wasting a lot of light and power, for a single sprout. A much better option would be to hang a single, 23 watt CFL a few inches above the plant. Probably 5" to 6" to start. You can even use a couple, once it gets a little bigger, and veg for the first week or so.


You should think about using a larger reservoir. If you can't fit one in your tent, you can always have it outside, and slice the tent where you want your pipes/tubes to pass though. This will help keep your water temps down. 72-79 is too warm. You should be shooting for just below 70.

A larger reservoir helps keep temps down, and helps keep nutes/pH levels in check.


You should be good at around 150ppm - 180ppm. Make sure you balance your pH after adding nutes. Nutes will change your pH levels when you add it.


Follow the "Recirculating Feeding Chart" from GH. After you run out of the Trio, I would switch to the Maxi powder. You only have "Grow" and "Bloom", so you don't have to mix anything. Works awesome!

You don't need to use Cal-Mag. If you were growing via "Coco Coir", you'd need to add it. But not with DWC.


Your plants can handle 85, but that's a little high to account for tempature fluxuations. On warm days, your temps could jump 7 - 10 degrees, then you're getting into temps where your plant isn't growing. When your plants hit 95, they stop growing.

What kind of fan are you using to vent your tent? At the minimum, you should have at least a 4" inline exhaust fan, carbon scrubber, and speed controller. You can get packages for pretty low prices on Amazon. Search for "VenTech 4-inch exhaust fan" on Amazon. Also, what kind of circulation fans are you using? These fans are crucial for your plants, as your plants need air moving around them. Again, on Amazon you can get "6 inch clip-on fans", that work great in tents. Tons of people use these, including myself.


I think that's okay. You want a 10 to 15 degree drop. Lower than 15 degrees starts causing issues with the plants.


Hope all this has helped. I tried to be as accurate as possible with my info, but I'm sure others will add some ideas and voice their opinions

These are my Bonsai Mums (small mother plants), under florescents. One of them is my White Widow. Can't see the labels Point is, you can get your plant pretty big, with less energy wasted. LEDs are awesome, and I'll be building mine sometime soon. But sometimes there are other, cheaper ways than even LEDs

The one in front is my White Widow

 

[Keegan12L]

@JSB99 Wow so much info, thanks!

Okay, step back from your little one and take a deep breath, and relax a little . You've got a thousand things going on and you're trying to throw a thosand fixes at it, but that usually leads to more trouble.

Let's go over these one at a time, and see if we can get you on the right path.

First off, you should either be hand watering your sprout, or move your drip ring, to where an edge is very close to the sprout. You're going to have problems getting water to the roots when they're that small.


I don't have any direct experience with LEDs, except for research. But, if your leaves are curling up, then you are having heat issues. This could be from having your light too close, or not enough exhaust to keep your tent cool. Starts don't need a lot of intense light (think of Spring). I would raise your light another 12". If she starts to stretch for the light, then bring it closer.

Even though it's LED, you are wasting a lot of light and power, for a single sprout. A much better option would be to hang a single, 23 watt CFL a few inches above the plant. Probably 5" to 6" to start. You can even use a couple, once it gets a little bigger, and veg for the first week or so.


You should think about using a larger reservoir. If you can't fit one in your tent, you can always have it outside, and slice the tent where you want your pipes/tubes to pass though. This will help keep your water temps down. 72-79 is too warm. You should be shooting for just below 70.

A larger reservoir helps keep temps down, and helps keep nutes/pH levels in check.


You should be good at around 150ppm - 180ppm. Make sure you balance your pH after adding nutes. Nutes will change your pH levels when you add it.


Follow the "Recirculating Feeding Chart" from GH. After you run out of the Trio, I would switch to the Maxi powder. You only have "Grow" and "Bloom", so you don't have to mix anything. Works awesome!

You don't need to use Cal-Mag. If you were growing via "Coco Coir", you'd need to add it. But not with DWC.


Your plants can handle 85, but that's a little high to account for tempature fluxuations. On warm days, your temps could jump 7 - 10 degrees, then you're getting into temps where your plant isn't growing. When your plants hit 95, they stop growing.

What kind of fan are you using to vent your tent? At the minimum, you should have at least a 4" inline exhaust fan, carbon scrubber, and speed controller. You can get packages for pretty low prices on Amazon. Search for "VenTech 4-inch exhaust fan" on Amazon. Also, what kind of circulation fans are you using? These fans are crucial for your plants, as your plants need air moving around them. Again, on Amazon you can get "6 inch clip-on fans", that work great in tents. Tons of people use these, including myself.


I think that's okay. You want a 10 to 15 degree drop. Lower than 15 degrees starts causing issues with the plants.


Hope all this has helped. I tried to be as accurate as possible with my info, but I'm sure others will add some ideas and voice their opinions

These are my Bonsai Mums (small mother plants), under florescents. One of them is my White Widow. Can't see the labels Point is, you can get your plant pretty big, with less energy wasted. LEDs are awesome, and I'll be building mine sometime soon. But sometimes there are other, cheaper ways than even LEDs

First off, thanks for taking the time to reply and helping me out!
So the roots are already in the water(I started her in this system) and actually almost to the bottom of the res. When I read your post it got me thinking and I realized the issue REALLY started when I accidentally left the drip ring on for 8 hours while watching the Superbowl. I had not dropped the water level of the res when roots came down. I assumed there was an inch or so between the water and net pot, but there was almost no space. I dropped the water level a few inches now.I actually don't really like this drip ring setup so my next grow I think i will go with a water pump and tubing coming from the res. That is good to know for my other seedling though.
Heat isn't an issue anymore as I vented outside and temps don't get above 78-79 and usually stay around 75. I will definitely be changing my seedling setup and go with cheaper lights and put them in a smaller setup before transferring them over. After starting in 5 gallon buckets I have read a lot more and agree that a bigger res is needed. I'll probably go with a couple tubs or something for my next grow.

I have heard a ton of opinions about which nutrients to use so I will be researching different ones when I run out of GH. I haven't heard of the maxi powder. I'll check it out, thanks! As for cal-mag I just see a ton of people using it and the feeding chart I planned on using called for it. I use way less than recommended and may cut it out if it makes little difference. I added a small dose of nutrients and brought the PPM up to 120 to see how she does.

I have a 6in exhaust fan with a carbon filter. As well as a double fan (one of the ones that are for a window) blowing over the top and another small fan blowing beneath. Very gentle breeze. I've already noticed the stem getting thicker and have read good air circulation helps with that.

Nice looking plants you got there! Have you done any kind of LST or other training methods for your White Widow?

 

[Cold$moke]

You say 0 ppm. You on ro water?

JSB99s has you pretty lined out.


But 30ppm. Is probably the culprit especially how evenly pale it is.

I would bump the feed up to at least 200-300ppm and wait a day then another 200 ppm a day later if they show improvement

Just my 2

 

[JSB99]

@JSB99 Wow so much info, thanks!




First off, thanks for taking the time to reply and helping me out!
So the roots are already in the water(I started her in this system) and actually almost to the bottom of the res. When I read your post it got me thinking and I realized the issue REALLY started when I accidentally left the drip ring on for 8 hours while watching the Superbowl. I had not dropped the water level of the res when roots came down. I assumed there was an inch or so between the water and net pot, but there was almost no space. I dropped the water level a few inches now.I actually don't really like this drip ring setup so my next grow I think i will go with a water pump and tubing coming from the res. That is good to know for my other seedling though.
Heat isn't an issue anymore as I vented outside and temps don't get above 78-79 and usually stay around 75. I will definitely be changing my seedling setup and go with cheaper lights and put them in a smaller setup before transferring them over. After starting in 5 gallon buckets I have read a lot more and agree that a bigger res is needed. I'll probably go with a couple tubs or something for my next grow.

I have heard a ton of opinions about which nutrients to use so I will be researching different ones when I run out of GH. I haven't heard of the maxi powder. I'll check it out, thanks! As for cal-mag I just see a ton of people using it and the feeding chart I planned on using called for it. I use way less than recommended and may cut it out if it makes little difference. I added a small dose of nutrients and brought the PPM up to 120 to see how she does.

I have a 6in exhaust fan with a carbon filter. As well as a double fan (one of the ones that are for a window) blowing over the top and another small fan blowing beneath. Very gentle breeze. I've already noticed the stem getting thicker and have read good air circulation helps with that.

Nice looking plants you got there! Have you done any kind of LST or other training methods for your White Widow?

No problem (helping out)

Your roots can be in the water, as long as you're oxygenating it with bubbles. In fact, most of your roots are going to be submerged when they get bigger. When they get bigger, you'll probably want to bring down the water along the way, until your containers are about half full.

I was using the Floro before I went to the Maxi, and I used Maxi all the time with my older grows. You're not going to notice any difference in nutrients at this point. Any of the major brands are going to work fine. I suggest the Maxi just for ease of use (no mixing). So, I wouldn't worry about researching.
Maxigro and Maxibloom

As far as using Cal Mag, I really wouldn't use it. Your plants are already going to be getting the proper mix of calcium and magnesium with your nutes. What will happen is, you'll get an abundance of cal and mag. When you try to get the correct ppm, the CalMag will be adding to that, and you'll have deficiency with your other nutrients, like nitrogen, potassium, etc...

As far as LST, I've actually topped each one multiple times, to create a "manifold" on each, which is a method of creating multiple main branches. Check out my Mum's thread, to see how I did this.

 

[JSB99]

You say 0 ppm. You on ro water?

LOL, I was going to ask about this, but forgot.

 

[Keegan12L]

You say 0 ppm. You on ro water?

JSB99s has you pretty lined out.


But 30ppm. Is probably the culprit especially how evenly pale it is.

I would bump the feed up to at least 200-300ppm and wait a day then another 200 ppm a day later if they show improvement

Just my 2

LOL, I was going to ask about this, but forgot.

Just tap water that comes out 0ppm. Right now ppm is 120. I was gonna wait a day or so to see how she responds as well as if ppm goes up or down. Should I add more now, or wait and see? I've always read to start light and bump up if needed.

No problem (helping out)

Your roots can be in the water, as long as you're oxygenating it with bubbles. In fact, most of your roots are going to be submerged when they get bigger. When they get bigger, you'll probably want to bring down the water along the way, until your containers are about half full.

I was using the Floro before I went to the Maxi, and I used Maxi all the time with my older grows. You're not going to notice any difference in nutrients at this point. Any of the major brands are going to work fine. I suggest the Maxi just for ease of use (no mixing). So, I wouldn't worry about researching.
Maxigro and Maxibloom

As far as using Cal Mag, I really wouldn't use it. Your plants are already going to be getting the proper mix of calcium and magnesium with your nutes. What will happen is, you'll get an abundance of cal and mag. When you try to get the correct ppm, the CalMag will be adding to that, and you'll have deficiency with your other nutrients, like nitrogen, potassium, etc...

As far as LST, I've actually topped each one multiple times, to create a "manifold" on each, which is a method of creating multiple main branches. Check out my Mum's thread, to see how I did this.

Gotcha. I will drop out the Cal-mag when i change the res, thanks =)
Most of the roots are in the water still. I just dropped it enough to be 1-2 inches below the net pot. I think i was too high with it right up to net pot. I have read about that! I will check it out, as I have been interested in trying it.

 

[JSB99]

Just tap water that comes out 0ppm. Right now ppm is 120. I was gonna wait a day or so to see how she responds as well as if ppm goes up or down. Should I add more now, or wait and see?

Im confused. Are you saying that your tap water is 0ppm, or 120ppm? You need to know what your base TDS is, to offset the nutrient ppm. If your tap TDS are 100ppm, and you want your nutrient TDS to be 750ppm, then you want your TDS to read 850ppm on your TDS meter.

 

[Cold$moke]

Just mix the gh trio to 1/4 strength should have a feed strength for seedlings and clones listed

Its not bad to start light but your basically giving it water lol.

My base ppm is 170 ish outa the well

1/4 strength shouldn't hurt her at all

You just dont wana go straight to a 4 week veg strenght or youll fry em lol

 

[Keegan12L]

Im confused. Are you saying that your tap water is 0ppm, or 120ppm? You need to know what your base TDS is, to offset the nutrient ppm. If your tap TDS are 100ppm, and you want your nutrient TDS to be 750ppm, then you want your TDS to read 850ppm on your TDS meter.

Ya my tap water is 0ppm. I added nutes to bring it up to 120.

 

[Cold$moke]

He must have an in home ro filter

If it where me i would give it 1/4 strength for one or two days then keep bumping the feed till they get a nice healthy color and sit there for a bit.

Then you can bump it with your normall change outs

 

[Keegan12L]

Just mix the gh trio to 1/4 strength should have a feed strength for seedlings and clones listed

Its not bad to start light but your basically giving it water lol.

My base ppm is 170 ish outa the well

1/4 strength shouldn't hurt her at all

You just dont wana go straight to a 4 week veg strenght or youll fry em lol

I already burnt her once so I guess im a bit reluctant lol. I will mix up some 1/4 strength, thanks!

I dont have any filter installed so not sure how it comes out 0ppm, but i'm not complaining =) The city did just build a new water plant though

 

[Cold$moke]

If it crinkles the new growth its too hot

If it burns the tips its even hotter.

If you watch for those 2 things youll be ok

You where right to feed slowly . I didnt see any burn and the even paleness says hungry or a high ph of like 7

But now shes hungry imo

 

[Cold$moke]

I already burnt her once so I guess im a bit reluctant lol. I will mix up some 1/4 strength, thanks!

I dont have any filter installed so not sure how it comes out 0ppm, but i'm not complaining =) The city did just build a new water plant though

What did you feed when you burnt them

 

[Cold$moke]

I already burnt her once so I guess im a bit reluctant lol. I will mix up some 1/4 strength, thanks!

I dont have any filter installed so not sure how it comes out 0ppm, but i'm not complaining =) The city did just build a new water plant though

Wierd

Your water should have something in it very rare to be at 0 with out somekind of filtration.

 

[JSB99]

Wierd

Your water should have something in it very rare to be at 0 with out somekind of filtration.

Desalination plants mix minerals back into the water at the end, otherwise it tastes strange. Some minerals in the water are okay, and even a tad bit of chlorine can be beneficial to killing unwanted microbs. Of course, you do end up killing beneficial microbes in the process, but you add them right back in when feeding.

 

[JSB99]

Wierd

Your water should have something in it very rare to be at 0 with out somekind of filtration.

I agree. This is odd.