First time hydro, going to try Ebb/Flow - is this a reasonable plan?
- Thread starter Larry3215
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Another big difference between the video and the original original meniscus membrane system, is water flow rates. In the original meniscus membrane setup, the water/nute mix is just a very slow trickle. In the video, that guy is pumping at a good clip with a mechanical pump.
Cold$moke
Well-Known Member
Still i would think the roots would still pop through and since its moist i would think they would just grow into it but if not that could have some benefits
Cold$moke
Well-Known Member
Yup thats why i say its meniscus/nft
The menicsus allows a "shallower" bed of water then nft alone could because the mat spreads the water ....in my head at least
Cold$moke
Well-Known Member
Thats what i figure its just there to spread the "meniscus membrane " film of water
Then roots just crawl along it .
Perhaps its like you say with the upper layer acting as a grow bag of sorts.
Buf it could be just exaggerated for clarity hard to say without a whole picture and description.
Thats the fun part with new systems lol just when you figure it "all" out. You make a run and have a list of improvements afterwards
Exactly!!Thats the fun part with new systems lol just when you figure it "all" out. You make a run and have a list of improvements afterwards
I found some more general info but no details yet. I did find some pics of roots though.
https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/membranemeniscus/
They look pretty good to me.
I also emailed the guy who wrote the articles in Maximum Yield. I'll let you know if he gets back to me - hopefully with some details.
Ok, you have done it to me again! Now Im off on plan 387 for my next grow - membrane meniscus! Lucky for me I still have 5 or 6 weeks till this grow is ready to harvest, so I have time to change my mind at least 73 more times
For the moment, I think all my basic equipment and plumbing should be exactly the same as before - grow totes, rez, airlift pump. I wont need the auto siphon of course. All I need is a simple drain back to the rez.
The add-ons will be some sort of mat for the nutes to flow through and a membrane of some sort. I just happen to have some fabric batting left over from an RC model build that should work for the bottom mat. From that drawing, it looks like he has that layer quite thick, so I guess I will have to use several layers. That will probably let the water flow easier and more uniformly.
Im thinking I will just use smart pots for the membrane. My 5 gal smart pots are too small to fit nicely inside my 5 gal totes, so I need to find some at least 7 gals I think.
Then set a plastic net pot in the lid of the tote, with hydroton or what ever, so that it hangs down far enough to rest on the smart pot fabric and some more batting. Cover the top of the pot to keep out light and Im all set. That should give me a strong support for the plants and allow me to do LST - I think.
Ah ha! After a lot of looking I found the original patent application - with all the details and clear pics!
http://pericles.ipaustralia.gov.au/ols/auspat/quickSearch.do?queryString=2011100391&resultsPerPage=&includeAbstractText=on
Reading it now.....
http://pericles.ipaustralia.gov.au/ols/auspat/quickSearch.do?queryString=2011100391&resultsPerPage=&includeAbstractText=on
Reading it now.....
This is going to be simple. The capillary material that the nutes flow through can be perlite or something similar. You can also use perlite for the "disposable material" on top.
The fabric he recommends for the membrane is dacron, which is easy to get at fabric stores. I just happen to have some of that on hand.
Here is a clean pic.
The fabric he recommends for the membrane is dacron, which is easy to get at fabric stores. I just happen to have some of that on hand.
Here is a clean pic.
Cold$moke
Well-Known Member
Ok so if im reading it correctly.
Basically the guy in the video is using the batting as the disposable layer. And yhe bottom of his table act as the impenetrable layer .
With the only difference of having the film of nutrients a little closer to the root mass.
In which in one of the descriptions he does say something about the capilary matt staying adequately wet so the water makes the film
It might be worth grabbing some material
But it looks like it might complicate it without much gain?
Dunno well have to build and see
Thats for the info
Basically the guy in the video is using the batting as the disposable layer. And yhe bottom of his table act as the impenetrable layer .
With the only difference of having the film of nutrients a little closer to the root mass.
In which in one of the descriptions he does say something about the capilary matt staying adequately wet so the water makes the film
It might be worth grabbing some material
But it looks like it might complicate it without much gain?
Dunno well have to build and see
Thats for the info
Hard to say.
In that video ANC posted, the root ball looks much larger than it did in the other one I saw. Thats a lot more impressive than I thought.
The thing is, to get that large root mass, you need some surface area. I suspect thats one reason he spread the plants out like that.
The big difference between the guy in the video and the MM (membrane meniscus) technique, is that in the video, the roots stay in water all the time. Basically an NFT with a mat. The membrane technique keeps the roots out of the water, so its like a super thin NFT.
Would one or the other have more or less tendency to get root rot or other issues?
ANC
Well-Known Member
The roots will expand in the batting like it is a thin soil layer. It will anker them better than cubes on bare bottoms, and allow a much bigger root than the average ebb and flow cube.
It is basically a long table lined with plastic and a drainage hole on one side. I imagine you could shape the exit and just catch it in your reservoir. All you need is a wide T on the intake side with lots of holes in to spread water as wide as the footprint. It runs to the output with gravity. So no dripper or feedlines to sort out. It is as simple as recirculating hydro gets.
It is basically a long table lined with plastic and a drainage hole on one side. I imagine you could shape the exit and just catch it in your reservoir. All you need is a wide T on the intake side with lots of holes in to spread water as wide as the footprint. It runs to the output with gravity. So no dripper or feedlines to sort out. It is as simple as recirculating hydro gets.
Kind of. The guy in the video is just doing NFT with the roots growing in the mat.
The MM technique has the water flowing under the barrier/membrane and water wicks up to the roots. In one case, the roots are in water full time. In the other, they are in the air full time with water being fed to them by capillary action. Andrew Parker claims his technique gets more air to the roots and uses less nutes to get the job done. Plus a smaller air pump and no water pump, so you have energy savings as well.
From the pics I saw of grows using the MM technique, they had great results and huge root balls too - but - Im not sure which would be better for our growing. Both look to work pretty well.
I think Im going to try the MM thing - partly because its interesting and different and I can easily use my air lift pump and I happen to have all the parts already on hand
Perfect!