3500k vs 4000k vs 5000k ?

[Evil-Mobo]

Hello everyone, its been almost 2 years since I started this thread, lots of great info in here and some big names in the community. I appreciate all the comments from everyone and all the data.
I have come back to this thread to run a test. It will take quite a while, but here is the test that will be run.
1,000W DE HPS
5 x 5 Space
9 Plants 3 Gal Coir 3 Different strains staggered in each row for optimal results

Control Run
2100k DE HPS Veg and Fllower

4000k Run Veg + Flower

6000k Run veg + Flower

10,000k Run Veg + Flower

After those runs data will be analysed as well as all samples sent to a lab for quantitative testing.
After this, we will know which Kelvin spectrum is best for what and things can be tweaked based on teh results as well as lighting tech others plan to use.
Then we can run this

Mix Run
Veg: Whichever Spectrum Performs best
Flower Whichever Spectrum Performs Best
Finisher 10k or whichever spectrum performs best

We will then know which Kelvin is most ideal, regardless if its 1 Kelvin or its multiple in different stages.
We will find out and I will post all the information I have in both photos and videos.

This is for my own curiosity and seems has sparked quite a stir.

Please lookout for a new thread starting in the coming weeks.

Regards, Trippy

I want to see this.

Mix the 6K/4K trust me..............

 

[Trippyness]

I want to see this.

Mix the 6K/4K trust me..............

Explain a bit more on that. Just want to know for myself and from this thread its not not answered. I have the facility now to run this test so I will. For years people have said this and that but with no real data. Well its time.
Look out for a thread on Wednesday.
Suprised no one has run this test yet, but I guess Ill be the guy.
Will be settled once and for all.

 

[Evil-Mobo]

Explain a bit more on that. Just want to know for myself and from this thread its not not answered. I have the facility now to run this test so I will. For years people have said this and that but with no real data. Well its time.
Look out for a thread on Wednesday.
Suprised no one has run this test yet, but I guess Ill be the guy.
Will be settled once and for all.

Well I will start with this:

So to make the explanation as simple as possible, at least what I am trying to say. If you follow the video, and it makes sense, and you beleiev it, then we can go on to assume in theory that instead of trying to find the one perfect COB spectrum we are better off mixing the different spectrums for a "fuller" full spectrum. Clear as mud?

I just started my own non scientific test recently mixing the 6500K/3K cob's I have. The plants are happy as sin and to my naked eye the light looks like my straigfht 3500K COB's but more "realistic". It's the closest to the BLue MH I use to run on my HID. I'm not so software inclined but I'd love to see a graphical overlay of the mixed 6500K/3K over the Horitlux Blue MH out of pure curiosity if nothing else. I was doing a side by side HID vs COB a while back but after everyone's moaning that no one does these "test" I just kept getting excuses from onlookers as to how I was not in a lab its not controlled etc etc. True but that does not mean we can't learn from the results right.


I will also say to you in case you have not noticed, not all LED spectrums translate across the brands. IE: A 4k Cree Cob and a 4K Citizen COB are not the same exact thing despite both being rated at 4000K.

Again this is just theories and babbling from some nut on the internet

 

[Trippyness]

Well I will start with this:

So to make the explanation as simple as possible, at least what I am trying to say. If you follow the video, and it makes sense, and you beleiev it, then we can go on to assume in theory that instead of trying to find the one perfect COB spectrum we are better off mixing the different spectrums for a "fuller" full spectrum. Clear as mud?

I just started my own non scientific test recently mixing the 6500K/3K cob's I have. The plants are happy as sin and to my naked eye the light looks like my straigfht 3500K COB's but more "realistic". It's the closest to the BLue MH I use to run on my HID. I'm not so software inclined but I'd love to see a graphical overlay of the mixed 6500K/3K over the Horitlux Blue MH out of pure curiosity if nothing else. I was doing a side by side HID vs COB a while back but after everyone's moaning that no one does these "test" I just kept getting excuses from onlookers as to how I was not in a lab its not controlled etc etc. True but that does not mean we can't learn from the results right.


I will also say to you in case you have not noticed, not all LED spectrums translate across the brands. IE: A 4k Cree Cob and a 4K Citizen COB are not the same exact thing despite both being rated at 4000K.

Again this is just theories and babbling from some nut on the internet

Great read. I have done a few side by sides with COBS vs DE HPS of differant brands.
My conclusion was that COB produced better flowers, but DE had the better penatration and yield. I lollipop and scrog.
Want to see this test for myself as LED is just still too expensive for industrial use in places where we have cheap electricity.

 

[Trippyness]

Great read. I have done a few side by sides with COBS vs DE HPS of differant brands.
My conclusion was that COB produced better flowers, but DE had the better penatration and yield. I lollipop and scrog.
Want to see this test for myself as LED is just still too expensive for industrial use in places where we have cheap electricity.

To clarify by better for COB LED. I mean slightly denser flowers even on my cookies cuts and oveerall potency lab tested by 3%.
However, the 3% gain wasnt worth the descent yield gap.
I think testing these K temp bulbs with DE will kill the COb grows Ive done.

 

[Humple]

To clarify by better for COB LED. I mean slightly denser flowers even on my cookies cuts and oveerall potency lab tested by 3%.
However, the 3% gain wasnt worth the descent yield gap.
I think testing these K temp bulbs with DE will kill the COb grows Ive done.

What was the wattage discrepancy between your COBs and the DE?

 

[Trippyness]

What was the wattage discrepancy between your COBs and the DE?

The COB was build with 1,000w of power running CXB3590 3500k.
They ran very cool, however the price to build one in Canada was astronomically high.
The penetration was less even with defoliation and a SCROG.
All same strain I have been running for a long time.
The LED produced denser slightly more resinous flowers. Seen shorter node spacing and less stretch. However, the DE killed the yield and produced more heat the the canopy. However it was manageable with some wall fans and an intake and outake.
Did not run co2 for either to get a baseline.
I ran this 2 times with 2 different strains with same results.
I wont be going back to COBS anytime soon, but really all depends on growing style. I grow huge bushes with 8 week long veg times in Coir. I need penetration that even the CXB 3590 dont get anywhere near close to the DE HPS.
I ran the 3590s and 1050ma for refrence.
Not hating on LED just isnt for me

 

[Kushash]

The COB was build with 1,000w of power running CXB3590 3500k.
They ran very cool, however the price to build one in Canada was astronomically high.
The penetration was less even with defoliation and a SCROG.
All same strain I have been running for a long time.
The LED produced denser slightly more resinous flowers. Seen shorter node spacing and less stretch. However, the DE killed the yield and produced more heat the the canopy. However it was manageable with some wall fans and an intake and outake.
Did not run co2 for either to get a baseline.
I ran this 2 times with 2 different strains with same results.
I wont be going back to COBS anytime soon, but really all depends on growing style. I grow huge bushes with 8 week long veg times in Coir. I need penetration that even the CXB 3590 dont get anywhere near close to the DE HPS.
I ran the 3590s and 1050ma for refrence.
Not hating on LED just isnt for me

I like your explanation of your experience with led and hps.
What is the deal with your grow journal being unavailable.
Not sure how that works but I'd like to view your journal if it can be made available to see.

 

[Evil-Mobo]

The COB was build with 1,000w of power running CXB3590 3500k.
They ran very cool, however the price to build one in Canada was astronomically high.
The penetration was less even with defoliation and a SCROG.
All same strain I have been running for a long time.
The LED produced denser slightly more resinous flowers. Seen shorter node spacing and less stretch. However, the DE killed the yield and produced more heat the the canopy. However it was manageable with some wall fans and an intake and outake.
Did not run co2 for either to get a baseline.
I ran this 2 times with 2 different strains with same results.
I wont be going back to COBS anytime soon, but really all depends on growing style. I grow huge bushes with 8 week long veg times in Coir. I need penetration that even the CXB 3590 dont get anywhere near close to the DE HPS.
I ran the 3590s and 1050ma for refrence.
Not hating on LED just isnt for me

Thanks for all of your honest feedback this is what we need. Question and I'm not sure if I missed it. What size grow area we're you running the DE's and was it a room tent etc.......

 

[Trippyness]

I like your explanation of your experience with led and hps.
What is the deal with your grow journal being unavailable.
Not sure how that works but I'd like to view your journal if it can be made available to see.

I never finished it. that was years ago, been way too busy to publish a full journal.
Will publish a journal of the DE Spectrum Bulb test though. iw ant that documented.

 

[Trippyness]

Thanks for all of your honest feedback this is what we need. Question and I'm not sure if I missed it. What size grow area we're you running the DE's and was it a room tent etc.......

It was a 5 x 5 Tent to keep the climate, VPD, RH and humidity controlled in both 5 x 5 tents.
Thats what Im saying, there is lots of talk and respewed info but not much back it.
Just people saying the things they have done or have read. I want answers. Solid , non disputable answers. There isnt any on this topic, so ill be the one to make it happen.
Will start the thread probably late this week once I get the bulbs in and hung.

 

[wietefras]

The COB was build with 1,000w of power running CXB3590 3500k.

That's probably your problem right there. Too much light is also bad for the plants.

I kept the light intensity the same when replacing my 1000W HPS DE with COBs. With the 1000W DE HPS I would get on average 1250g per light (boosted to 1150W). So say about 1.1g/W. WIth COBS I went to 1,4g/W and that was old 2.0umol/W COBs.

 

[Humple]

It was a 5 x 5 Tent to keep the climate, VPD, RH and humidity controlled in both 5 x 5 tents.
Thats what Im saying, there is lots of talk and respewed info but not much back it.
Just people saying the things they have done or have read. I want answers. Solid , non disputable answers. There isnt any on this topic, so ill be the one to make it happen.
Will start the thread probably late this week once I get the bulbs in and hung.

You're wrong that there aren't any topics on this. Check out the following:

https://www.rollitup.org/t/from-des-to-leds.948046/

 

[Humple]

That's probably your problem right there. Too much light is also bad for the plants.

I kept the light intensity the same when replacing my 1000W HPS DE with COBs. With the 1000W DE HPS I would get on average 1250g per light (boosted to 1150W). So say about 1.1g/W. WIth COBS I went to 1,4g/W and that was old 2.0umol/W COBs.

That's exactly what I was thinking. Too much light.

 

[Trippyness]

That's probably your problem right there. Too much light is also bad for the plants.

I kept the light intensity the same when replacing my 1000W HPS DE with COBs. With the 1000W DE HPS I would get on average 1250g per light (boosted to 1150W). So say about 1.1g/W. WIth COBS I went to 1,4g/W and that was old 2.0umol/W COBs.

I should clarify a few things here.
Pretty sure everyone and their grandma is getting about 3lbs a light at 1150, including myself with solid genetics.
I did not have too much light. I own a PAR meter and a spectrometer.
I made sure I was running 900-1000 PPFD at the canopy. My plants were very healthy.
Same genetics 2 runs, in The second run I lowered the PPFD to 700-800 PPFD.
I didnt not see much yield variance between 700 and 1000ppfd with COBS.
I have run many tests with Veros and Citi LED in smaller conditions.

Here is my yield for my first run. Will find data for second run.
DE Run 1 :1723 Grams ( top quality, probably a few oz of larf for edibles, never weighed that part) = 1.49 Grams a watt
1000w CXB3590 Run 1 : 1451 Grams = 1.26 Grams per watt if you like to gauge things this way.


I am in no way saying COBS dont work. They provide an excellent yield. I would still love to play with some higher K spectra and some UV with COB lights and then I will likely see a high yield, but for now these are my results.

Also to answer a question i know someone will ask. I run some very high yielding strains. One of which being my own. Yield comes down to genetics, light spectrum and health.

COBS are fantastic, I should have clarified that better. They do work very well. However I still see far better results with DE HPS.
Plus in Canada Buying or building a COB fixture is just very expensive and electric is fairly cheap. DE fixtures are cheap. AC is cheap and for me I just run an intake and outake and a wall fan and get good temps rh and VPD.

I will be pl;aying with some COB spectra again after this DE bulb run to finally answer the question. Which K temps provide the best growth in each stage.

To any hobby growers, yes COBS are worth it, are they worth the money? Depends on a few factors, such as heat and your budget. yes you can run a DE at 1150 in a 5 x 5 wtih temps well under 30 with an intake and outake of 400cfm each and a wall fan/ box fan.

I hope this gives a bit more insight. LED is the future, just not yet in terms of price and yield from my runs with my genetics.
Here is some bud porn of my own person strain: Cocolate Covered Creamsicle Dough
Genetics of this are:
Sin Mint Cookies x 24k Gold = Gold Cookies
Gold Cookies x Purple Glue ( GDP x Strawberry Glue) = Glueberry Coast
Glueberry Coast x 5 Little Ducks ( Frisian Duck x Critical 2.0) = Chocolate Covered Creamsicle Dough or CCCD

Enjoy, Trippy

 

[Trippyness]

That's exactly what I was thinking. Too much light.

Read post above. I was not saturated in PPFD at the height I was at. I own a Par meter and ran the PPFD calculations.
Did these runs with different ppfd each time. Results still stand.
All plants were very healthy and no issues as always.
Nutrients were: Plant Prod 6-11-27 + Calcium Nitrate + Magnesium Sulfate PPM of 900 in Flower 600 Veg.
COBS just did not perform as well as my DE. Simple as that.
I will run more tests after I'm done ruining the bulb kelvin test. Will make a new thead.
Once this is concluded will run a new COB test. For me I still would not go to COBS for commercial, the wattage savings isnt as substantial as people would want you to think even in high KWH states like Cali.
Thanks for the comment. I dont hate LED, just not for me. Def good for alot of people, but what i do its not for me.

 

[Trippyness]

You're wrong that there aren't any topics on this. Check out the following:

https://www.rollitup.org/t/from-des-to-leds.948046/

I have read this, anecdotal at best. I have read every thread there is on COBS and spectra. Its time to run a legit test once and for all.
This is no to shame any lighting, but to finally put to rest in a commercial environment which K works best when.

 

[Evil-Mobo]

It was a 5 x 5 Tent to keep the climate, VPD, RH and humidity controlled in both 5 x 5 tents.
Thats what Im saying, there is lots of talk and respewed info but not much back it.
Just people saying the things they have done or have read. I want answers. Solid , non disputable answers. There isnt any on this topic, so ill be the one to make it happen.
Will start the thread probably late this week once I get the bulbs in and hung.

Along for the ride here myself can't wait to see the thread. Feel free to tag me in. And I appreciate the honest feedback on the DE.

 

[Trippyness]

Along for the ride here myself can't wait to see the thread. Feel free to tag me in. And I appreciate the honest feedback on the DE.

Im just here to find the best lighting, spectrum for each stage and to get the best flowers and yield.
Thread https://www.rollitup.org/t/de-hps-spectrum-shootout-2100k-vs-4000k-vs-6000k-vs-10-000k-commercial.961870/
Enjoy the ride. Time to put this age old debate to rest with some real world results.

 

[wietefras]

Time to put this age old debate to rest with some real world results.

Well this has long been established. You are the only outlier really.

Scientific tests have shown that the yield difference caused by spectrum up to 4000K is 5% at most.