What is a good light for a 4x4x6.5 grow space?

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donatelloisbadass

New Member
Hey guys,

First-time grower here. Just placed an order for a 4x4 tent, wanted to know if anyone has any recommendations on a light setup. I'd like to get one strong light up front and consider adding supplemental light down the road. The idea of COB LEDs appeals to me, not having to worry about fire risk as well as the lower operating costs, etc. However I've seen many people say that the yields on a 600W Gavita can't be matched by any COB fixture. Personally, I've looked at the Spectrum King SK402, as well as the 'Redwood' (suggested for 4x4 areas) line of Timber premade COB lights. I'm looking for the most beginner-friendly light that can give the highest yields, as I'm sure I will learn from quite a few mistakes during my first (and subsequent) grows. Cost isn't necessarily a concern if the ROI is there. Thanks so much in advance for any help!
 
Lordhooha

Lordhooha

Well-Known Member
donatelloisbadass said:
Hey guys,

First-time grower here. Just placed an order for a 4x4 tent, wanted to know if anyone has any recommendations on a light setup. I'd like to get one strong light up front and consider adding supplemental light down the road. The idea of COB LEDs appeals to me, not having to worry about fire risk as well as the lower operating costs, etc. However I've seen many people say that the yields on a 600W Gavita can't be matched by any COB fixture. Personally, I've looked at the Spectrum King SK402, as well as the 'Redwood' (suggested for 4x4 areas) line of Timber premade COB lights. I'm looking for the most beginner-friendly light that can give the highest yields, as I'm sure I will learn from quite a few mistakes during my first (and subsequent) grows. Cost isn't necessarily a concern if the ROI is there. Thanks so much in advance for any help!
Click to expand...
Anything from timber you won’t be disappointed with.
 
D

donatelloisbadass

New Member
hotrodharley said:
Highest yields still from HPS
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Do you have any prior experience with the Gavita in particular?

My account is too new for me to post links, but a quick google search of something like "Gavita 600 de" should bring up a link to growershouse, where I was looking at Gavitas.

If I was to go HPS/Gavita, does anyone have any recommendations on additional specs?
 
hotrodharley

hotrodharley

Well-Known Member
donatelloisbadass said:
Do you have any prior experience with the Gavita in particular?

My account is too new for me to post links, but a quick google search of something like "Gavita 600 de" should bring up a link to growershouse, where I was looking at Gavitas.

If I was to go HPS/Gavita, does anyone have any recommendations on additional specs?
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I can't afford one or I would. I do know my neighbor gave up on using LED to flower with. 3 chops and the reduced yield was evident although nice nugs and good smoke
 
a mongo frog

a mongo frog

Well-Known Member
donatelloisbadass said:
I'm looking for the most beginner-friendly light that can give the highest yields, as I'm sure I will learn from quite a few mistakes during my first (and subsequent) grows.
Click to expand...
Most likely a 600 watt air cooled. Its very beginner-friendly. I think a DE 600/750 might get to hot in a 6.5 foot tall space. I run the 1000 watt DE and it gets warm. And i have almost 9 foot for height, and keep the fixture around 30-32 inches off the canopy.
 
gjs4786

gjs4786

Well-Known Member
new grower here, but quick learner. i know enough to guess that if you are asking whats the best light for a 4x4, you're pretty new too. or you are migrating from outdoors to in. if im right, start with a MH/HPS setup. that will force you to adapt good cooling and air exchange techniques. Plus, you can say you grew HID in 5 years and say you are old school. Call your utilities provider, ask how much a kilowatt hour costs if you don't know it already. Post it here. I'll do the calculations if you want.

HID lamps get you thinking in ways that leds never will. i feel like i would have been cutting myself short if i just started with anything other than HID lighting. i can think of 10 ways i could change my setup to maybe gain a few extra degrees cooler. leds are great, but they take more than a harvest to pay off, depending on your electricity costs (find that out). My electrical costs before my 1000w HID grow were more than they are now cause now I only turn the hot water heater on for 1 hour each day. Only cool the rooms you need, forget central air. 5000btu A/C unit uses 500-550watts. They run half the time, so it's really about 250 watts/hr per 24 hours. Have one in the growroom and one where you watch TV and live and sleep.

If selling is your thing, get a few HID grows under your belt is my advice. It will pay for your setup, costs, and new equipment.

I look forward to giving LED a try but not now. Not when HPS and MH are so damn cheap and productive. Get a big ass hood, make sure you take into consideration the hood vent size (6 inch, 8 inch) with the scrubber and fan you buy.

Your ROI insn't going to be there as a new indoor grower if you go LED. For the same price you can have a flowering chamber w/ HPS. You'll still be growing great bud, and when you are ready to apply what you have learned, you should try LED's. Maybe electricity is cheap for me at 9 cents and change per kilowatt hour...but make sure you turn your water heater off 23 hours a day and you can get the same savings you do with LED...with HPS buds.

The Sandia National Laboratory, they developed nuclear energy there, has an article as to how deceptive less energy use can be: http://www.sandia.gov/~jytsao/tsao_jy_2010_04_app_for_light_LEUKOS.pdf - that's the study that says the more energy we can use, the more energy we will. Essentially, we're still using the same amount of watts, despite LED. Why? Cause we can have more light for the same cost because it's more efficient.

This article breaks it down, as the Sandia Lab article is highly technical: https://insideclimatenews.org/news/20082015/lighting-paradox-cheaper-efficient-led-save-energy-use-rises

It says that;
"Moving from laboratory research to commercial production is always challenging but even if the new technique does significantly reduce the cost of highly efficient LED lights, their use won't necessarily result in energy savings. A number of recent studies have in fact found the opposite. Known as the "rebound effect" they show that reductions in the cost of lighting result in increased consumption as people use more and more lights

A 2010 study looked at lighting use around the world for the past 300 years as lighting technology improved from whale oil lamps to gas and kerosene lamps to electric incandescent bulbs. The study, conducted by researchers at Sandia National Laboratories in Albuquerque, New Mexico found a direct relationship between decreased cost and increased consumption."

In other words, put your water heater on a timer, switch from central air (in some cases) and you'll use a lot less energy than if you keep everything the same, but.... pay out the bum for good leds. Wait until they become cheaper. By the logic presented, that means people will be using twice the led cob energy, or the SAME as they did with HID, for more coverage area. That's exactly what has happened. Energy use is still the same guys...quit saying LED saves energy cause you just run twice as much.
 
gjs4786

gjs4786

Well-Known Member
I know you're only using a 4x4...not like you're trying to light a warehouse. LED effeciency has made more bud that people literally toss around in bins. Not for the home grower, IMO, not yet. by the time it is affordable, might as well grow saffron if you're for-profit
 
D

donatelloisbadass

New Member
Got work soon, but I will check on electric costs and update accordingly. One quick clarification I wanted to make in reference to the beginner-friendly thing, what I'm trying to say with that is, using the most basic techniques, what will give the best results? I know there are lots of ways to train your plants and try to cultivate a certain style of grow, what nutes you use, strain, etc. There are hundreds of variables. I'll learn what works and what doesn't for me as I go, I moreso just want to get a good piece of hardware and get started. I'm the type of person who could just research stuff forever and never get any actual groundwork done lol.

Couple quick questions for some of you guys:

@NanoGadget , how do you think the HLG would do for veg and flower in a 4x4? Do you have a recommendation for height, should I just follow manufacturers instructions? Looking for a single light for my first grow, could add on in the future. Space is my primary concern at the moment, I'm sure as I learn more, I'll learn how to better use my space as well. Lastly, would you recommend quantum boards overall if I was to go the COB route, and just avoid other fixture types? I was looking at the pre-made Redwood lights from Timber specifically, as well as the SK402 from Spectrum King.

@a mongo frog , I still can't post links (sry guys) but a quick google search returned an "iPower" air-cooled light from zenhydro for $130. That website (and/or product) could be b/s but if that's a legitimate price range then I'd definitely look into this as an option. I found that the Gavita has a safety shutdown feature, so my concerns over temp are alleviated a bit. I'd have to look more into the specifics of the feature but at first glance it seems to be a safety measure geared towards my primary concern with temp, which is fire hazards. I'll be running a window AC unit pretty close to the tent as well. Thoughts on if the 750 DE Gavita would be overkill? Is there a big drop off in production from that to the 600 SE Gavita?

@gjs4786 , bro thank you so much for the detailed response. I'll PM when I figure out more of my specs, get the electricity costs etc.
And while I completely understand what you're saying about the benefits of HPS with regards to the forced learning curve, if I'm willing to spend the extra money up front, maybe worth considering learning the ins and outs of an LED light if I'm going to eventually be switching over anyways? I know LED tech continues to improve and whatever light I buy now will be obsolete in 3-5 years, but still I'm sure there are basic general stylistic differences between the lights, and using any LED light in general will help familiarize you with the techniques needed to start pulling off nice yields with an LED. Hopefully that makes sense? Not trying to disagree with anything you said, each of you is far more knowledgeable about this than I am, I'm just curious. I get what you're saying that the savings for LED may not be all it's cracked up to be, but given my living situation right now financially, I'm in a spot where I'd rather put money down into something I'm going to be getting the most value out of long-term, and up front cost isn't the biggest deal. Just a couple of options I'm considering, anyone is open to let me know their thoughts on these lights. Again this is for a 4x4x6.5 single grow room seed-to-harvest...

HLG 550 mentioned above (listed at $899 on ledgrowlightsdepot)

iPower 600w air cooled HPS that I tried to link above (listed at $129 on zenhydro)

Gavita Pro 600/750w DE fixture (listed at $398 on growershouse) [[question regarding the Gavita: from what I've gathered, the master controllers that Gavita offers seem like they'd be pretty helpful. Are there any third-party product options for something like that? And does anyone know the differences between the two? As far as I can tell, the first remote will serve all of the purposes as the second remote, but the second remote can control twice as many lights, not applicable for my situation lol.]]

Redwood TS (listed at $999 on timbergrowlights)

Finally, does anyone have any thoughts on Spectrum Kings? I've seen some good reviews but you can find a good review for most any light on the market. The SK402 seems comparable to the Redwood lights in terms of cost/effectiveness.
 
Lordhooha

Lordhooha

Well-Known Member
donatelloisbadass said:
Got work soon, but I will check on electric costs and update accordingly. One quick clarification I wanted to make in reference to the beginner-friendly thing, what I'm trying to say with that is, using the most basic techniques, what will give the best results? I know there are lots of ways to train your plants and try to cultivate a certain style of grow, what nutes you use, strain, etc. There are hundreds of variables. I'll learn what works and what doesn't for me as I go, I moreso just want to get a good piece of hardware and get started. I'm the type of person who could just research stuff forever and never get any actual groundwork done lol.

Couple quick questions for some of you guys:

@NanoGadget , how do you think the HLG would do for veg and flower in a 4x4? Do you have a recommendation for height, should I just follow manufacturers instructions? Looking for a single light for my first grow, could add on in the future. Space is my primary concern at the moment, I'm sure as I learn more, I'll learn how to better use my space as well. Lastly, would you recommend quantum boards overall if I was to go the COB route, and just avoid other fixture types? I was looking at the pre-made Redwood lights from Timber specifically, as well as the SK402 from Spectrum King.

@a mongo frog , I still can't post links (sry guys) but a quick google search returned an "iPower" air-cooled light from zenhydro for $130. That website (and/or product) could be b/s but if that's a legitimate price range then I'd definitely look into this as an option. I found that the Gavita has a safety shutdown feature, so my concerns over temp are alleviated a bit. I'd have to look more into the specifics of the feature but at first glance it seems to be a safety measure geared towards my primary concern with temp, which is fire hazards. I'll be running a window AC unit pretty close to the tent as well. Thoughts on if the 750 DE Gavita would be overkill? Is there a big drop off in production from that to the 600 SE Gavita?

@gjs4786 , bro thank you so much for the detailed response. I'll PM when I figure out more of my specs, get the electricity costs etc.
And while I completely understand what you're saying about the benefits of HPS with regards to the forced learning curve, if I'm willing to spend the extra money up front, maybe worth considering learning the ins and outs of an LED light if I'm going to eventually be switching over anyways? I know LED tech continues to improve and whatever light I buy now will be obsolete in 3-5 years, but still I'm sure there are basic general stylistic differences between the lights, and using any LED light in general will help familiarize you with the techniques needed to start pulling off nice yields with an LED. Hopefully that makes sense? Not trying to disagree with anything you said, each of you is far more knowledgeable about this than I am, I'm just curious. I get what you're saying that the savings for LED may not be all it's cracked up to be, but given my living situation right now financially, I'm in a spot where I'd rather put money down into something I'm going to be getting the most value out of long-term, and up front cost isn't the biggest deal. Just a couple of options I'm considering, anyone is open to let me know their thoughts on these lights. Again this is for a 4x4x6.5 single grow room seed-to-harvest...

HLG 550 mentioned above (listed at $899 on ledgrowlightsdepot)

iPower 600w air cooled HPS that I tried to link above (listed at $129 on zenhydro)

Gavita Pro 600/750w DE fixture (listed at $398 on growershouse) [[question regarding the Gavita: from what I've gathered, the master controllers that Gavita offers seem like they'd be pretty helpful. Are there any third-party product options for something like that? And does anyone know the differences between the two? As far as I can tell, the first remote will serve all of the purposes as the second remote, but the second remote can control twice as many lights, not applicable for my situation lol.]]

Redwood TS (listed at $999 on timbergrowlights)

Finally, does anyone have any thoughts on Spectrum Kings? I've seen some good reviews but you can find a good review for most any light on the market. The SK402 seems comparable to the Redwood lights in terms of cost/effectiveness.
Click to expand...
I run nothing but leds 6k in real watts of qb and homemade cob lights. Spectrum king is one I’ve never used but I do have 3 of the hlg 600h which are doing well. I love my leds. Like I tell most folks I run solar on my house which covers my house and grow room so energy cost isn’t an issue for me since at most my electric bill may be 40 cents. So the only reason I run leds is because I like them.
 
NanoGadget

NanoGadget

Well-Known Member
I mentioned the HLG 550 mainly because its a plug and play solution. If you are even remotely handy you could look into the HLG 600 that @Lordhooha mentioned. Its a kit that requires a small amoint of assembly but it will save you some money over the 550. Either one will take you seed to harvest with no issue and will give you very similar results to a SE 1000w HPS. You have the ability to choose your light spectrum. For seed to harvest with one light I'd recommend either the 3000k or the 3500k.
 
NanoGadget

NanoGadget

Well-Known Member
I would be remiss if i did not mention that HPS really is a great option for a 1st time grower. Its a proven tech and it's cheaper than LED so it would allow you to see how you like growing before throwing a bunch of money at it. That being said, I'd never go back to it now that i have seen what my HLG does.
 
Jesusgrowsmygrass

Jesusgrowsmygrass

Well-Known Member
If you don't mind being a little ghetto, check craigslist for deals. I just picked up two HLG 550s yesterday on craigslist.

I don't know yet if buying used equipment for your first grow is looked down upon yet.
 
Lordhooha

Lordhooha

Well-Known Member
Jesusgrowsmygrass said:
If you don't mind being a little ghetto, check craigslist for deals. I just picked up two HLG 550s yesterday on craigslist.

I don't know yet if buying used equipment for your first grow is looked down upon yet.
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Not if it’s good equipment. If you can find a deal on good used why not save a bit.
 
a mongo frog

a mongo frog

Well-Known Member
Jesusgrowsmygrass said:
If you don't mind being a little ghetto, check craigslist for deals. I just picked up two HLG 550s yesterday on craigslist.

I don't know yet if buying used equipment for your first grow is looked down upon yet.
Click to expand...
How much did you pay? I'm about to through 2 600's QB on craigslist with 1 run on them and not sure how much to charge. I was thinking half of what i paid so like 300.00 each?
 
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