green or yellow fan leaves at harvest

[JohnDee]

Hi folks,
Posted in advanced techniques because was hoping for experienced opinions.

This is what I'm thinking about. First there's the old school idea that by allowing a plant to use up it's stored nutrients...then the smoke will be "cleaner" and less harsh.

Versus the opposite idea that posits that having a green fully photosynthesizing plant right up to harvest maximized bud potency and weight.

So I guess if there's a question in all this..it would be: Should I starve my plant of N during flowering.

All opinions will be respected,
JD

 

[growingforfun]

You shouldnt be completly starving your plant, but there should be some yellowing and leaf drop. But there should also still be some green leaf at harvest. Hope this helps

 

[Miyagismokes]

I was taught, backwoods fashion, that accumulations of nute salts (specifically P) in the plant were detrimental to flavor and smoothness.
Combine that with the other backwoods anecdote, that N without P in flower delays finish and increases chance of premature re-veg.
So I was taught to let her scavenge herself for the last few weeks.

Is any of this true? I'm no scientitian, so it feels true, but that's actually all I got.

 

[JohnDee]

I was taught, backwoods fashion, that accumulations of nute salts (specifically P) in the plant were detrimental to flavor and smoothness.
Combine that with the other backwoods anecdote, that N without P in flower delays finish and increases chance of premature re-veg.
So I was taught to let her scavenge herself for the last few weeks.

Is any of this true? I'm no scientitian, so it feels true, but that's actually all I got.

Mr Miyagi...Thank you for opinions backed by backwoods wisdom. Namaste (palms together) Your reasoning seems good to me.

And Growingforfun...I agree, a worthy goal.

I made this thread in response to a thread I'm participating in. Made me think...

But when we stop feeding N and the plant scavenges mobile nutes from leaves...in the plants eye...isn't that just like feeding N. That's the crux of the argument.
JD

 

[Miyagismokes]

Mr Miyagi...Thank you for opinions backed by backwoods wisdom. Namaste (palms together) Your reasoning seems good to me.

And Growingforfun...I agree, a worthy goal.

I made this thread in response to a thread I'm participating in. Made me think...

But when we stop feeding N and the plant scavenges mobile nutes from leaves...in the plants eye...isn't that just like feeding N. That's the crux of the argument.
JD

There's always going to be a certain degree of something or other, but autocannibalism is probably the lowest levels you're gonna get, I would think.
Another element which I've given little credence to is I was taught the scavenging process hastens finish because the nutrients being used are limited, translocated from the leaves instead of roots.
I've heard, but that one feels less right, on the ol' gut meter.

 

[Beachwalker]

You shouldnt be completly starving your plant, but there should be some yellowing and leaf drop. But there should also still be some green leaf at harvest. Hope this helps

^ this is exactly my goal at harvest as well

 

[JohnDee]

There's always going to be a certain degree of something or other, but autocannibalism is probably the lowest levels you're gonna get, I would think.
Another element which I've given little credence to is I was taught the scavenging process hastens finish because the nutrients being used are limited, translocated from the leaves instead of roots.
I've heard, but that one feels less right, on the ol' gut meter.

Mr Miyagi,
I think what you are getting at here is that near harvest, the plant goes into a senescence phase...recognizing that...to quote "Blade Runner" it's "time to die". So losing nutrients from leaves is both a symptom and a trigger for harvest?

I like that idea.
JD

 

[growingforfun]

I made this thread in response to a thread I'm participating in. Made me think...

But when we stop feeding N and the plant scavenges mobile nutes from leaves...in the plants eye...isn't that just like feeding N. That's the crux of the argument.
JD

In short, no, i dont think its the same. And from my experiance the plant also doesnt think its the same.

 

[JohnDee]

In short, no, i dont think its the same. And from my experiance the plant also doesnt think its the same.

OK...and I think we're making progress here... why doesn't the plant think that it's the same?

Is it because only mobile nutrients are used up (from the leaves)?
JD

 

[Boatguy]

You really want to dig into this you should look at some of Uncle Bens threads to see some heated discussion of the topic.

 

[Miyagismokes]

The biomechanics involved with unfixing nutrients from established vegatation and translocation of nutrients absorbed at the root or leaf aren't quite the same.
If you're hungry, and eat your own finger, I'm pretty sure you'd know where the meat came from, and at no point does an ordinary meal require removal of a finger.

Plants aren't dumb. They're highly advanced biochemical engines.

 

[JohnDee]

You really want to dig into this you should look at some of Uncle Bens threads to see some heated discussion of the topic.

Useful info Boatguy. I remember Uncle Ben. Thanks Dude.

Basically all my growing career I've believed it's good to allow plants to use up stored nutrients...but recently have noted several alternative theories.
JD

 

[growingforfun]

OK...and I think we're making progress here... why doesn't the plant think that it's the same?

Is it because only mobile nutrients are used up (from the leaves)?
JD

Im not super edjamacted, but heres my guess. The nutes the plant has already worked on and saved up are already more ready to use with less byproducted.

So like for people, we can get great energy out of a big ol steak right? So if your workin a job like construction an you eat a big steak for breakfast, drink your coffee, take a dump an goto work, youll be good to go most of the day with some snacks in the mix. You eat that steak for lunch, maybe your on the stinky porta john.
Hope that makes sence.

 

[Boatguy]

I just remember alot of controversy in his threads. But, i think he believed in keeping them as heathly as he could till harvest, and harvesting top, mid, and bottom at diff times.

 

[Miyagismokes]

but recently have noted several alternative theories.

I'd definitely explore those. I do as I was taught, with modifications coming from what's tried and "true" ("didn't fail" isn't exactly a success, per se) by others in my area.
I'm slow to change, but receptive.

 

[JohnDee]

The biomechanics involved with unfixing nutrients from established vegatation and translocation of nutrients absorbed at the root or leaf aren't quite the same.
If you're hungry, and eat your own finger, I'm pretty sure you'd know where the meat came from, and at no point does an ordinary meal require removal of a finger.

Plants aren't dumb. They're highly advanced biochemical engines.

I'm really glad that I don't have to eat my own finger.

I get your point though dude.
JD

 

[growingforfun]

I know the times ive had too much nitrogen or bloom nutes in the mix too late in flower my stuff smelled like hay an was basically a expensive waste of time. Maybe some people can get away with doing it for one reason or another, but for myself the nutes must be tapered off at the end. If ive got dark green leaves when i planned to harvest, im gonna move harvest back.

 

[Miyagismokes]

harvesting top, mid, and bottom at diff times.

Nothing wrong with this, per se
I do the same because different parts get different sun, and taking the primaries opens the sky to the lower stuff.
But there's not much time between the two, really. More of a leisurely harvest than staged.

 

[JohnDee]

I know the times ive had too much nitrogen or bloom nutes in the mix too late in flower my stuff smelled like hay an was basically a expensive waste of time. Maybe some people can get away with doing it for one reason or another, but for myself the nutes must be tapered off at the end. If ive got dark green leaves when i planned to harvest, im gonna move harvest back.

This was exactly my thinking. But one area I need to check out more is how do some of these dudes cure.

I have read that slow drying actually allows the plant to continue metabolizing essentially using up stored nutrients.

But my thinking is that with proper finish (using up stored nutrients)...then you have a head start on drying and curing. With an even smoother product at the end. That is a goal...correct?
JD

 

[charface]

Nothing wrong with this, per se
I do the same because different parts get different sun, and taking the primaries opens the sky to the lower stuff.
But there's not much time between the two, really. More of a leisurely harvest than staged.

I've done colas then secondary harvest but for my room to be stalled out waiting for that bottom third just ain't worth it.
I make hash with that and get up and running again

But if you have time and desire to do that i see nothing wrong with it