Led Users Unite!

[KasparGrower]

Considering me growing in a tent (8x8x what do you suggest me to uso for this setup: COBs,QBs or strips? I'm asking this because of the limited height of the tent. Thanks!

 

[Randomblame]

@KasparGrower
Take strips, mate! Especially Samsung Q-series, H-influx- or F-series are recommend. Bridgelux EB gen2 is on par with F-series and Q-series seems almost similar efficient like the new Quantum Board v2.
With strips you can drive 6-8 inch distance and so you'll hardly lose light on the walls. This makes their use very efficient so you only need 30w/ft² to get good results.
Especially if you have limited height strips are the best solution!
If you drive Q-Series(3500°k/198lm/w) or Blux EBgen2(3500°k/180lm/w) at nominal current(datasheet) you don't need any type of heatsinks. H-influx(3500°K/182lm/w) and F-series strips(3500°k/175lm/w) run much harder and should be mounted to alu c-channels.
No matter which one you take in the end the finished fixture will end up being a lightweight and is easy to hang up.
I would use 36-48pcs 4ft. Q-series strips in 3500°K and 2pcs Meanwell HLG-480H-24A drivers(each with 18-24 strips in parallel). With 18 strips each would run with ~625mA (~194lm/w), that's 27w per strip and with 24 they would run with ~450mA (nom. current, 198lm/w) and 20w each.
A Q-series strip in 4ft length costs ~20$ incl. VAT if you take +25pcs and an HLG-480 is around 130 or 140$. That means 1250$ for strips and drivers. Alu-frame and misc parts like wires, dimmers, hangers and so one are probably another 250bucks. So around 1500$ for two 550w fixtures with top notch efficiency. 198lm/w means ~2,83μMol/J efficiency and 2,6μMol/J for the whole fixture(system efficiency).
With 24 strips per driver each diode runs with ~90mA.
A HLG550 with 4 new Quantumboard v2's(same LM301b diodes) costs ~1100$ and fully ramped up the diodes gets up to 150mA. This means you can also use only 18 strips per driver(125mA per diode) and your strip build would still have better efficiency as one of the best commercial fixtures currently available.
Not too shabby for 1500 bucks...

That's all Q-series strips digikey has listed. You can use 3000, 3500 and 4000°k as all-in-one spectrum for veg and bloom stage.

https://www.digikey.com/products/en?dc=70722

 

[SMT69]

I recommend to read this about leaf temps with different light sources...
https://www.blackdogled.com/lst

and this about VPD..
http://www.just4growers.com/stream/temperature-humidity-and-c02/vapor-pressure-deficit-the-hidden-force-on-your-plants.aspx

These are golden (especially the VPD link) , a treasure of information.....i had no idea, thx RB

 

[KasparGrower]

@KasparGrower
Take strips, mate! Especially Samsung Q-series, H-influx- or F-series are recommend. Bridgelux EB gen2 is on par with F-series and Q-series seems almost similar efficient like the new Quantum Board v2.
With strips you can drive 6-8 inch distance and so you'll hardly lose light on the walls. This makes their use very efficient so you only need 30w/ft² to get good results.
Especially if you have limited height strips are the best solution!
If you drive Q-Series(3500°k/198lm/w) or Blux EBgen2(3500°k/180lm/w) at nominal current(datasheet) you don't need any type of heatsinks. H-influx(3500°K/182lm/w) and F-series strips(3500°k/175lm/w) run much harder and should be mounted to alu c-channels.
No matter which one you take in the end the finished fixture will end up being a lightweight and is easy to hang up.
I would use 36-48pcs 4ft. Q-series strips in 3500°K and 2pcs Meanwell HLG-480H-24A drivers(each with 18-24 strips in parallel). With 18 strips each would run with ~625mA (~194lm/w), that's 27w per strip and with 24 they would run with ~450mA (nom. current, 198lm/w) and 20w each.
A Q-series strip in 4ft length costs ~20$ incl. VAT if you take +25pcs and an HLG-480 is around 130 or 140$. That means 1250$ for strips and drivers. Alu-frame and misc parts like wires, dimmers, hangers and so one are probably another 250bucks. So around 1500$ for two 550w fixtures with top notch efficiency. 198lm/w means ~2,83μMol/J efficiency and 2,6μMol/J for the whole fixture(system efficiency).
With 24 strips per driver each diode runs with ~90mA.
A HLG550 with 4 new Quantumboard v2's(same LM301b diodes) costs ~1100$ and fully ramped up the diodes gets up to 150mA. This means you can also use only 18 strips per driver(125mA per diode) and your strip build would still have better efficiency as one of the best commercial fixtures currently available.
Not too shabby for 1500 bucks...

That's all Q-series strips digikey has listed. You can use 3000, 3500 and 4000°k as all-in-one spectrum for veg and bloom stage.

Thanks man! Considering that I would like to have a range between 35w and 50w per sqft how many strips do I need? Also if I would like to add supplemental lighting like far red,uv,uvb diodes how many watts of supplemental lighting do you suggest me to have with that area? I thank you for your kindness

 

[Randomblame]

Thanks man! Considering that I would like to have a range between 35w and 50w per sqft how many strips do I need? Also if I would like to add supplemental lighting like far red,uv,uvb diodes how many watts of supplemental lighting do you suggest me to have with that area? I thank you for your kindness

A 4ft. Q-strip at nom. current(43,2v x 450mA) is ~20w. A HLG-480H-48 has at least 10Amps; probably up to 11,5A in reallity. That's 416-480mA per strip(24 in parallel).
Believe me, 35w is already enough with strips cause at 8" distance you have already readings around 1000μMol/s/m2. 50w/sft is really a lot espechially with such a short distance. If you still want ~50w/sft then add a third HLG-480H-24 and take 72 instead of 48 strips.
Oh, wait! I totally fucked up the calculation! You need twice as much strips and diodes!
8x 8' is 64sft!
For 35w or 2.240w total you need 4 HLG-480(up to 2200w) with 18-24 Q-strips on each driver(72-96 strips), for 50w/sft or 3.200w you would need 6 drivers and 108-144 Q-strips.
Sorry for the mistake! I calculated erroneously with only 32sft, because I parallel made the calculations for another user with 8x 4 'area. (me sucker)
You could get away with only 12 strips per driver because 900mA(40w) is max. current for Q-series strips. You will loose some efficiency but you would still get 170lm/w or 2,43μMol/J(2,2 system eff.).

Sorry, again for the miss calculation, mate! These numbers are correct!

 

[Randomblame]

This are the datasheet for Q-series and HLG-480H-48. If you drive the strips in parallel the constant current region will be applied(24-48v for 48v version) and the driver works in constant current mode. Only above 48v and with secondary dc:dc drivers (like LDD's) it would work in constant voltage mode.

 

[Randomblame]

To add discrete diodes in deep- and far-red for such a big fixture will cost you an arm and a leg, mate. One Cree XP-E costs between 3 and 4$ and the same goes for Osram Oslon. You can get them for ~2$ from Alibaba but there is no way to check the binnings. They could claim it's High Efficiency(HE) C01 bin but in reality it's only 901 or even lower.
Wiring would be a PITA too!
If you still want to add it use ~10% deep red and ~5% far red.

Forget UVB diodes most of them last only 500-2000h and they are hella expensive.
The easiest way is to use 4ft. bulbs like the Agromax PureUV. They are 54w and need only to run for a certain time per day(~3h). Most peeps use them for 10-15min/h to avoid burnings from too much UVB.
One bulb covers an area of 2x 4ft at 1' distance this means you would need 6-8 of them to cover the whole 8x 8' area. 6 should be enough 'cause they are really strong(3 times stronger than reptile bulbs) and there is some overlapping.

These bulbs need an aluminum reflector, two holder sockets for T5 and a 54w electronic ballast. 108w ballast to drive 2 bulbs in once do also exsist. Good brands are Philips, Osram, Tridonic, ...
You could bend reflectors from 1mm alu sheets 1200x 120mm and the T5 sockets you can find on e3ay. A 10pack for ~3-5$(white/green ones below) and to connect socket and ballast you need 1mm single core wire(AWG20 or 22 would work). But keep in mind, the wires between bulb and ballast can not be longer than 100-150cm! Not all ballasts carry this notice on the case, but there is always a wiring schematic.

I'm using these cheapo's from china but shipping takes a while. You can get them probably in the same shop where you get the ballasts. Maybe 1-1,50$/pcs...

 

[KasparGrower]

To add discrete diodes in deep- and far-red for such a big fixture will cost you an arm and a leg, mate. One Cree XP-E costs between 3 and 4$ and the same goes for Osram Oslon. You can get them for ~2$ from Alibaba but there is no way to check the binnings. They could claim it's High Efficiency(HE) C01 bin but in reality it's only 901 or even lower.
Wiring would be a PITA too!
If you still want to add it use ~10% deep red and ~5% far red.

Forget UVB diodes most of them last only 500-2000h and they are hella expensive.
The easiest way is to use 4ft. bulbs like the Agromax PureUV. They are 54w and need only to run for a certain time per day(~3h). Most peeps use them for 10-15min/h to avoid burnings from too much UVB.
One bulb covers an area of 2x 4ft at 1' distance this means you would need 6-8 of them to cover the whole 8x 8' area. 6 should be enough 'cause they are really strong(3 times stronger than reptile bulbs) and there is some overlapping.

These bulbs need an aluminum reflector, two holder sockets for T5 and a 54w electronic ballast. 108w ballast to drive 2 bulbs in once do also exsist. Good brands are Philips, Osram, Tridonic, ...
You could bend reflectors from 1mm alu sheets 1200x 120mm and the T5 sockets you can find on e3ay. A 10pack for ~3-5$(white/green ones below) and to connect socket and ballast you need 1mm single core wire(AWG20 or 22 would work). But keep in mind, the wires between bulb and ballast can not be longer than 100-150cm! Not all ballasts carry this notice on the case, but there is always a wiring schematic.

I'm using these cheapo's from china but shipping takes a while. You can get them probably in the same shop where you get the ballasts. Maybe 1-1,50$/pcs...
View attachment 4196101

I got you mate! Thanks. So for supplemental lightin is the 5/10% of the total wattage? Oh and how much does a strip cost by each unit? I'm not finding anything online. Thanks again!

 

[SMT69]

wall to wall baby

 

[Randomblame]

I got you mate! Thanks. So for supplemental lightin is the 5/10% of the total wattage? Oh and how much does a strip cost by each unit? I'm not finding anything online. Thanks again!

You can use up to 50% and more red/deep red diodes if you want. It needs only around 10PAR/w pure blue per squaremeter to keep the plants short and bushy. You could use up to 80% red/deepred wavelength if you want.
But discrete diodes are too expensive for such a combi.

Strips with colored diodes are rare, really rare. You can search at cutter.com.au(Cree based strips), HLG(horticulturelightinggroop) has monochromatic strips too(Cree, Prolight diodes) and LED-Tech.de offers strips with top bin Osram Oslon diodes(on par with Cree, partwise better).
Maybe you'll find colored LED strips on Alibaba too but you can not be sure about the used binnings. Often they claim to use top bins but in reality it's not top bin sometimes they even use completely different diodes. (cheap Epistar, Sanan, ..)

You can also search for strip PCB's(printed circuit boards) with siutable solder pads/mask(3.45 x 3.45mm is siutable for Cree, Osram, Prolight diodes) and solder the diodes by yourself. The only things you need is a low temp soldering grease and an oven with max. 250°C.
There are a few vids on youtube; view them to get an idea how is works.
All you have to do is apply the soldering grease to the appropriate places on the PCB's, place the diodes on it and put the PCB carefully in the oven for 2-3 minutes.
You can also use Cree or Osram diodes mounted on 16-20mm star PCB's and glue them to a small alu c-channel.
Osrams new Square series in deepred has up to 3,9μMol/J(LED-Tech.de has them) but to date there is no commercial product available with these diodes. It looks not as clean like with strips but it would be unbeatable efficient.

 

[KasparGrower]

I see... I took a look at your current light a d it looks awesome! Why did you choose to add also some CONs to the fixture? Another thing that I'm stille missing: if I want to take your advice about supp lighting,do I have to add 5/10% to rhe total wattage?
Anyway I would really appreciate if you could send me a PM with your email address since I can't send PMs on the forum atm,so I can ask you one or two things about this fixture I had in mind without flooding this post lol . Thanks man!!

 

[Randomblame]

No email adress, mate! Sorry! But feel free to ask what you want. You can also leave me a message on my profile page. I can send you a pm as well and you only have to answer to start a conversation.
It does not take long before all functions are released. It goes faster the more likes you get...

There is no special reason for the 5 and 10% recommendations. Only 5% far-red because too much will increase the stretch and you get longer internodes but you can use also 10% if you like that.
I will add a pdf below where they tested with and without far-red and they used up to 90μMol/s/m² additional far-red.
And the 10% deep-red I've recommended because colored top bin diodes are f*** expensive. If you want the efficiency level you see in the datasheets you need to drive them low(350mA). That's only 0,735w per diode. You need ~40pcs deep-red diodes to get ~30w deepred with ~57-58% efficiency. That's at least 120 bucks and you need a driver too.

I've added the 8 Bridgelux V18 COB's because they are 3000°k/CRI90. They run with ~500mA(17w) and are driven by an HLG-120H-C500B. F-strips are only available in CRI80 and I want a mix of both to get a wider red spectrum and a bit more far-red.
The far-red trigger has only 6 Cree XP-E diodes but when the stretch is done I let them run all day long with the mainlight and switch them off 5 mins after the main lights switched off. This way the plants gets a bit more far-red and this seems to have positive effects(more efficient photosynthesis, faster maturing, shorter flower cycle).
The main difference between CRI80 and CRI90 white is the red shift and the increased far red part(twice as much). Far red itself does not much on photosynthesis itself but it seems to have beneficial effects compared against plants grown under colored or CRI80 white LED's(with almost no far-red).

A few well known members here use strictly CRI90 since they made a side by side test with CRI80.
@The Dawg for example has a few interesting threads showing impressive differences compared to CRI80. But be warned! You will feel small and miserable with your own skills when you see his results, lol! At least you're not alone...

 

[L8Tex]

I have a viparspectra 600w (278w actual) and i gotta say with 3 autos under her i did 40 inches in 4 weeks . I have the pics to prove and i am here just to say to the haters that this stuff really does work. I am currently growing out dinafem blue cheese in 3 gal pots using mostly advanced nutes.

 

[Kushash]

I have a viparspectra 600w (278w actual) and i gotta say with 3 autos under her i did 40 inches in 4 weeks . I have the pics to prove and i am here just to say to the haters that this stuff really does work. I am currently growing out dinafem blue cheese in 3 gal pots using mostly advanced nutes.

Very nice plant.
LED does grow great plants.
I'm curious.
Why do you bring up haters on your 1st day as a member in your very 1st post on RIU?

 

[Dave455]

I have a viparspectra 600w (278w actual) and i gotta say with 3 autos under her i did 40 inches in 4 weeks . I have the pics to prove and i am here just to say to the haters that this stuff really does work. I am currently growing out dinafem blue cheese in 3 gal pots using mostly advanced nutes.

Will see the grams per watt of dry herbs as final result,

 

[L8Tex]

Everybody shits on the viparspectra specifically so i say i have grown under 1000w hps in a dedicated room and other set ups. For the 260 bucks the vps cost me it works well enough to give it "novel" stAtus as it seems to grow small batch autos just fine. And its peanuts a month too run. But it has some serious limitations. And the plants need to be less than 10 inches to really see substantial growth

 

[L8Tex]

Very nice plant.
LED does grow great plants.
I'm curious.
Why do you bring up haters on your 1st day as a member in your very 1st post on RIU?

Why does it hurt your feelings?

 

[Kushash]

Why does it hurt your feelings?

Just curious.
Does it hurt my feelings lol.
Are you trying to hurt feelings?
I just figure someone who finds there way to the LED section and mentions haters probably has a history.
You don't sound like a nice newbie, More like someone with a chip on there shoulder.
You gonna share some love on RIU?
Feel like sharing your history on forums or are you a child planning on hurting my feelings some more?

 

[GanJaGawD]

Very nice and frosty nuggets. What brand and type of LEDS are you using? Are they white full spectrum? What type of medium are you using in your fabric pots? What lights are you vegging under and how long are you vegging for? How many plants do you have in the 4'x8' and what are your average yields? Once again; " Very nice looking frosty buds."

I run a constant setup with mothers and clones. All stages running all the time. I put about 3 to 6 in at a time to flower. Veg is under t5s at least 4 to 8 weeks. I like large scrog plants. Oceans forest, promix, and added perlite. Also run pure organic. Only guanos and castings. Lights are cheap Chinese bull shit but they work great...4 x 1000watts Same as expensive ones I'd say at a 1/3 the price. Amazon 120 bucks.

 

[GanJaGawD]

Why does it hurt your feelings?

These plants are 6 ft tall under led...it's all how you do it.