Trump plans to end citizenship for children of immigrants born in US

jimihendrix1

Well-Known Member
The Supreme Court Case That Dooms Trump’s Citizenship Plan



Long before Donald Trump, birth tourism, and today’s debate over birthright citizenship, there was a son of Chinese immigrants named Wong Kim Ark.

And the story of Wong Kim Ark shows why many legal scholars think Trump probably won’t succeed in his plans, revealed Tuesday, to end the practice of bestowing U.S. citizenship to babies born on U.S. soil. Ark’s fight wound up being the basis of a little-known Supreme Court case that has a outsized effect on the debate over birthright citizenship.

Ark’s story starts in 1873, when he was born in San Francisco’s Chinatown neighborhood to Chinese parents. His parents were permanent residents but not U.S. citizens. They were in the U.S. to work. By the late 1800s, with big waves of immigrants arriving in the U.S. from China, California and the federal government passed a series of laws discouraging Chinese immigration, which politicians and labor leaders blamed for low wages.

That wound up being a problem for Ark. At age 21, he visited China. Upon his return by steamship a year later, port officials wouldn’t let him enter. They said he wasn’t a citizen and that the law forbade Chinese immigrants from entering the country. He sued.

At issue, then as now, is this wording from the 14 th Amendment: “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.”

In a 6-2 decision, the Supreme Court in 1898 found that Ark was, indeed, a citizen and should be allowed in the country. It wasn’t exactly a period of racial enlightenment, either: Just two years earlier, the court ruled in Plessy v. Ferguson that racially segregated public facilities were legal.

But in reviewing Ark’s case, U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark, the court examined the plain meaning of the 14 th Amendment and its legislative history and found no basis to conclude that Ark wasn’t a citizen:


To hold that the Fourteenth Amendment of the Constitution excludes from citizenship the children, born in the United States, of citizens or subjects of other countries would be to deny citizenship to thousands of persons of English, Scotch, Irish, German, or other European parentage who have always been considered and treated as citizens of the United States. … Whatever considerations, in the absence of a controlling provision of the Constitution, might influence the legislative or the executive branch of the Government to decline to admit persons of the Chinese race to the status of citizens of the United States, there are none that can constrain or permit the judiciary to refuse to give full effect to the peremptory and explicit language of the Fourteenth Amendment.

The court said its interpretation was consistent with British common law, in which people born in a British territory are subjects of the crown unless their parents are diplomats or part of a hostile occupying force.

There are some distinctions between Ark’s case and the modern debate over birthright citizenship. Most notably, his parents were in the U.S. legally, unlike illegal immigrants who give birth in the U.S. today and seem to be the target of Trump’s push to restrict citizenship. Some conservative legal scholars have said that the 14 th Amendment is intended to apply only to children of citizens and legal residents.

Other legal scholars, though, dispute that argument. And they largely point to Ark’s story to do it.
 

SneekyNinja

Well-Known Member
seems fairly straightforward, there is an AND that says the persons must also be subject to the jurisdiction, which illegal aliens arguably are not. Its perfectly within the constitution framework.

Wrong, the comma before the "and" changes the meaning.

The way its written implies all citizens, born or naturalized are subject to the jurisdiction thereof.

But I know, I know...Trump loves the uneducated.
 

SneekyNinja

Well-Known Member
Nope. Still not a lawyer, but congrats on keeping your libtard status.

"Senator Jacob Howard worked closely with Abraham Lincoln in drafting and passing the Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution, which abolished slavery. He also served on the Senate Joint Committee on Reconstruction, which drafted the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution. In 1866, Senator Jacob Howard clearly spelled out the intent of the 14th Amendment by writing:

Every person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons. It settles the great question of citizenship and removes all doubt as to what persons are or are not citizens of the United States. This has long been a great desideratum in the jurisprudence and legislation of this country.""
If you're born in the US you can't be an "alien" because of the 14th, Jesus Christ how can you be so dumb that you don't get how this works?

"But but a Senator said otherwise!"

Senators are regularly dumb as fuck and lie, in-case you hadn't noticed.
 

Olive Drab Green

Well-Known Member
I remember drinking Old Crow with my dad in 1974 after a day of elk hunting
Sadly, I can only wish I could have tried the ‘70s stuff with the original mashbill. From what I hear, Old Crow is a year-younger Beam White Label these days. It’s not the greatest, but it’s not the worst, either.

Sounds like good memories, at least. Not all alcohol-related memories are good, statistically speaking.
 

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
It was the women who came forward about the whole scam, dumbass.

You know, one would think that after you've been made a complete fool of so many times that you would start actually looking into these things and getting some facts before posting.

But not you. You take village idiot out a whole new door.
well wait a sec..we have a few other contestants here.
 

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
The Supreme Court Case That Dooms Trump’s Citizenship Plan



Long before Donald Trump, birth tourism, and today’s debate over birthright citizenship, there was a son of Chinese immigrants named Wong Kim Ark.

And the story of Wong Kim Ark shows why many legal scholars think Trump probably won’t succeed in his plans, revealed Tuesday, to end the practice of bestowing U.S. citizenship to babies born on U.S. soil. Ark’s fight wound up being the basis of a little-known Supreme Court case that has a outsized effect on the debate over birthright citizenship.

Ark’s story starts in 1873, when he was born in San Francisco’s Chinatown neighborhood to Chinese parents. His parents were permanent residents but not U.S. citizens. They were in the U.S. to work. By the late 1800s, with big waves of immigrants arriving in the U.S. from China, California and the federal government passed a series of laws discouraging Chinese immigration, which politicians and labor leaders blamed for low wages.

That wound up being a problem for Ark. At age 21, he visited China. Upon his return by steamship a year later, port officials wouldn’t let him enter. They said he wasn’t a citizen and that the law forbade Chinese immigrants from entering the country. He sued.

At issue, then as now, is this wording from the 14 th Amendment: “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.”

In a 6-2 decision, the Supreme Court in 1898 found that Ark was, indeed, a citizen and should be allowed in the country. It wasn’t exactly a period of racial enlightenment, either: Just two years earlier, the court ruled in Plessy v. Ferguson that racially segregated public facilities were legal.

But in reviewing Ark’s case, U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark, the court examined the plain meaning of the 14 th Amendment and its legislative history and found no basis to conclude that Ark wasn’t a citizen:


To hold that the Fourteenth Amendment of the Constitution excludes from citizenship the children, born in the United States, of citizens or subjects of other countries would be to deny citizenship to thousands of persons of English, Scotch, Irish, German, or other European parentage who have always been considered and treated as citizens of the United States. … Whatever considerations, in the absence of a controlling provision of the Constitution, might influence the legislative or the executive branch of the Government to decline to admit persons of the Chinese race to the status of citizens of the United States, there are none that can constrain or permit the judiciary to refuse to give full effect to the peremptory and explicit language of the Fourteenth Amendment.

The court said its interpretation was consistent with British common law, in which people born in a British territory are subjects of the crown unless their parents are diplomats or part of a hostile occupying force.

There are some distinctions between Ark’s case and the modern debate over birthright citizenship. Most notably, his parents were in the U.S. legally, unlike illegal immigrants who give birth in the U.S. today and seem to be the target of Trump’s push to restrict citizenship. Some conservative legal scholars have said that the 14 th Amendment is intended to apply only to children of citizens and legal residents.

Other legal scholars, though, dispute that argument. And they largely point to Ark’s story to do it.
but it's already case law and conservatives can argue alternative facts all they wish. apparently they don't understand the definition of words- you don't get to make up your own to fit your narrative, agenda or ideology.
 

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
The Supreme Court Case That Dooms Trump’s Citizenship Plan



Long before Donald Trump, birth tourism, and today’s debate over birthright citizenship, there was a son of Chinese immigrants named Wong Kim Ark.

And the story of Wong Kim Ark shows why many legal scholars think Trump probably won’t succeed in his plans, revealed Tuesday, to end the practice of bestowing U.S. citizenship to babies born on U.S. soil. Ark’s fight wound up being the basis of a little-known Supreme Court case that has a outsized effect on the debate over birthright citizenship.

Ark’s story starts in 1873, when he was born in San Francisco’s Chinatown neighborhood to Chinese parents. His parents were permanent residents but not U.S. citizens. They were in the U.S. to work. By the late 1800s, with big waves of immigrants arriving in the U.S. from China, California and the federal government passed a series of laws discouraging Chinese immigration, which politicians and labor leaders blamed for low wages.

That wound up being a problem for Ark. At age 21, he visited China. Upon his return by steamship a year later, port officials wouldn’t let him enter. They said he wasn’t a citizen and that the law forbade Chinese immigrants from entering the country. He sued.

At issue, then as now, is this wording from the 14 th Amendment: “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.”

In a 6-2 decision, the Supreme Court in 1898 found that Ark was, indeed, a citizen and should be allowed in the country. It wasn’t exactly a period of racial enlightenment, either: Just two years earlier, the court ruled in Plessy v. Ferguson that racially segregated public facilities were legal.

But in reviewing Ark’s case, U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark, the court examined the plain meaning of the 14 th Amendment and its legislative history and found no basis to conclude that Ark wasn’t a citizen:


To hold that the Fourteenth Amendment of the Constitution excludes from citizenship the children, born in the United States, of citizens or subjects of other countries would be to deny citizenship to thousands of persons of English, Scotch, Irish, German, or other European parentage who have always been considered and treated as citizens of the United States. … Whatever considerations, in the absence of a controlling provision of the Constitution, might influence the legislative or the executive branch of the Government to decline to admit persons of the Chinese race to the status of citizens of the United States, there are none that can constrain or permit the judiciary to refuse to give full effect to the peremptory and explicit language of the Fourteenth Amendment.

The court said its interpretation was consistent with British common law, in which people born in a British territory are subjects of the crown unless their parents are diplomats or part of a hostile occupying force.

There are some distinctions between Ark’s case and the modern debate over birthright citizenship. Most notably, his parents were in the U.S. legally, unlike illegal immigrants who give birth in the U.S. today and seem to be the target of Trump’s push to restrict citizenship. Some conservative legal scholars have said that the 14 th Amendment is intended to apply only to children of citizens and legal residents.

Other legal scholars, though, dispute that argument. And they largely point to Ark’s story to do it.

+rep:clap: good thing Barfo Kavanaugh (not his real name) loves case law by constantly referring to Stare Decisis.

 

Unclebaldrick

Well-Known Member
It was the women who came forward about the whole scam, dumbass.

You know, one would think that after you've been made a complete fool of so many times that you would start actually looking into these things and getting some facts before posting.

But not you. You take village idiot out a whole new door.
I think what he really wants is #believeallrepublicanlies
 

zeddd

Well-Known Member
It’s absoloutely clear from reading the 14a that someone born in US (and who does not have diplomatic status whereby they are under a foreign jurisdiction) is a US citizen, it’s in plain English the comma before “and” being all important as mentioned above?
 

TacoMac

Well-Known Member
It’s absoloutely clear from reading the 14a that someone born in US (and who does not have diplomatic status whereby they are under a foreign jurisdiction) is a US citizen, it’s in plain English the comma before “and” being all important as mentioned above?
Of course it's in plain English. The confusing part for republicans is they can't read plain English.
 

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
The first part of the Amendment says "All persons born in the United States" which would make the second part redundant if it meant the same thing, So it clearly has a different meaning that legal scholars will have to weight in on.

Also, if you want to see how racists a lot of Democrats really are, just watch them when black voters in the US start talking about voting for Republicans :)
fortunately for all of us, you are not a political scholar, nor are you in a position to make any decisions
 

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
View attachment 4224407
You're going to shit when my report is finished.
why? it's become obvious that the report will not be finished during the trump administration. they may come out with all kinds of damning things, but clearly not until the damage has been done and the fucker is already out of office and living in a penthouse in moscow, drinking vodka and eating caviar with his gay lover Vlad.....
 

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
Its possible, beyond my legal ability to really say. Will probably be hashed out in courts? By the way, the Democrats used to be able to get votes by appealing to the middle class and average citizen, I really don't see why yall are so desperate to have unlimited low IQ immigrants now so you can convince them to vote blue.


https://www.reddit.com/r/Conservative/comments/9smit6/axios_trump_to_terminate_birthright_citizenship/e8q70rn/

According to this
http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=llcg&fileName=073/llcg073.db&recNum=14


Senator Lyman Trumbull said:

“The provision is, that ‘all persons born in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens.' That means, “subject to the complete jurisdiction thereof." [...] What do we mean by subject to the jurisdiction of the United States? Not owing allegiance to anybody else.” Source

Senator Reverdy Johnson said

“Now, all that this amendment provides is, that all persons born in the United States and not subject to some foreign Power for that, no doubt, is the meaning of the committee who have brought the matter before us, shall be considered as citizens of the United States.”
it's been hashed out in the courts, a couple of times, and both times, it's been upheld. trump simply cannot do what he wants to do, and that's a very good thing for the whole fucking world.
 
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