Organic no till, probiotic, knf, jadam, vermicomposting, soil mixes, sips etc... Q & A

DankTankerous

Well-Known Member
Are you making your own 'kashi? My question would be if you could use too much. I plan on topdressing my big worm bin with it because it has rabbit manure in it. I saw a video of Alan Adkisson(Grokashi founder) and he was setting up his "Earth Boxes" and he basically used Promix, Malibu cow manure, and grokashi. I've been avoiding using manure and this may be the key.. Sorry for rambling...

I can't think Hyroot enough for pointing me in the direction of Alan Adkisson, his theories are a game changer for me!!!
The Kashi I got is from Build a Soil
Discover how our Kashi Blend, a diverse grain bokashi, can jumpstart your gardening and composting efforts!

WHAT’S IN YOUR KASHI BLEND?

Our Kashi Blend is derived from organic molasses, organic rice bran, organic wheat bran, organic camelina meal, organic malted barley, organic insect frass, EM-1, and trace minerals.

HOW TO USE ON PLANTS:

To use simply apply 1/3 cup to 15 gallons on soil every 10-14 days.

https://buildasoil.com/products/kashi-blend?variant=1040251460
 

Greenthumbs256

Well-Known Member
The Kashi I got is from Build a Soil
Discover how our Kashi Blend, a diverse grain bokashi, can jumpstart your gardening and composting efforts!

WHAT’S IN YOUR KASHI BLEND?

Our Kashi Blend is derived from organic molasses, organic rice bran, organic wheat bran, organic camelina meal, organic malted barley, organic insect frass, EM-1, and trace minerals.

HOW TO USE ON PLANTS:

To use simply apply 1/3 cup to 15 gallons on soil every 10-14 days.

https://buildasoil.com/products/kashi-blend?variant=1040251460
could u answer my question?

what would happen if I used an air stone in a Reservoir full of em1? is there anything beneficial to be achieved by this? or would it be going in reverse since em1 is anaerobic
 

SirSquashalot

Active Member
Are you following TGA's recipe? Most people on here are following Clackamas Coots, its the same idea but different inputs. I like Clackamas because he addresses the high P issues that I've been having.

It would be ideal to use fabric pots, but I haven't made it that far yet. Smart pots has 100gal+ containers and people use it for composting/EWC/Outdoor grows. Anyways, LABS should help with anaerobic bacteria.

You can achieve this with bokashi/grokashi, it has LABS in it already.

What makes you say that they went bad??? I mix barley with my soil and it smells something like puke on the beach, the crab and kelp give it the beach smell. It goes away after a while and the barley gets fuzzy. If you ever cooked with rye, you would recognize the smell.

I don't know if I helped you at all? Supersoil uses blood/bone meal and it does stink worse than amendments from the ocean. It was a lot harder to keep animals out of supersoil compared to Clackamas's recipe. The "Dead Animal" smell is common with blood meal and bone meal, time for a change... Maybe bokashi could help with the smell until then???
No I'm not following anyone's recipe, kind of took everything in from different recipe's and came up with my own make-up with probably around 9 amendments or so and I aim for around 3 cups per cu. ft.
I've had problems with getting adequate K in my soil though I've noticed, seems there's not much amendment out there that's rich in mostly K, none that I've come across anyway, I've never used green sand though but I'm incorporating it this time.
How often do you mix your soil after your initial mix? Do you leave the lid on the container completely covered or cracked open?
The reason I say my soil has went bad before is it has took on a dirty socks, musty stinky smell along with lost that bit of heat that you feel when the soil is cooking.
I'll look into those giant cloth pots. That's not a bad idea.
 

Greenthumbs256

Well-Known Member
No I'm not following anyone's recipe, kind of took everything in from different recipe's and came up with my own make-up with probably around 9 amendments or so and I aim for around 3 cups per cu. ft.
I've had problems with getting adequate K in my soil though I've noticed, seems there's not much amendment out there that's rich in mostly K, none that I've come across anyway, I've never used green sand though but I'm incorporating it this time.
How often do you mix your soil after your initial mix? Do you leave the lid on the container completely covered or cracked open?
The reason I say my soil has went bad before is it has took on a dirty socks, musty stinky smell along with lost that bit of heat that you feel when the soil is cooking.
I'll look into those giant cloth pots. That's not a bad idea.
green sand and langebenite are great for k!

I have also done the same and took a Lil form everyones recipe and made it my own with what's easily available! here's my mix, but I'm still playing around with the amounts!
someone suggested I add everything together and do 3 cups of the mix per cu.ft. but I haven't done that in just go light on what's listed!

not on the list below, I also use dolomite lime, gro-Kashi, em1, and guanos sometimes.

CM180729-003541001.jpg
 

MustangStudFarm

Well-Known Member
No I'm not following anyone's recipe, kind of took everything in from different recipe's and came up with my own make-up with probably around 9 amendments or so and I aim for around 3 cups per cu. ft.
I've had problems with getting adequate K in my soil though I've noticed, seems there's not much amendment out there that's rich in mostly K, none that I've come across anyway, I've never used green sand though but I'm incorporating it this time.
How often do you mix your soil after your initial mix? Do you leave the lid on the container completely covered or cracked open?
The reason I say my soil has went bad before is it has took on a dirty socks, musty stinky smell along with lost that bit of heat that you feel when the soil is cooking.
I'll look into those giant cloth pots. That's not a bad idea.
There is a lot of K in molasses and kelp, plus you get a bump in trace minerals from both. Try to avoid Rock phosphates and bone meal because of phosphorus. Fish meal is borderline for me because fish hydrolysate has more benefits. The only P input that Clackamas uses is Crab/crustacean meal and it has the benefit of Chitin. Most of the inputs that Clackamas uses has more than one benefit, like alfalfa has triacontanol along with a N-P-K ratio that is low in P. The founder of the "Soil Savvy Test" that I use said that K should be 2x the amount shown on the test results and that is the only thing different from other "Garden Plants". It started to make sense to why everyone uses a molasses tea brew/ferments.

I'm new to ferments, but I think that there is a good supply of K in Fermented Plant Juice(FPJ) and Roberto's Brew Flower Power. Hyroot has the recipe listed in this thread also.
https://docs.google.com/document/u/1/d/1cxlUTCpm6NCKGWiMVpmA5YlO6J2kCu5g6QaNXfgjauo/mobilebasic?pli=1
 

MustangStudFarm

Well-Known Member
I've never used green sand though but I'm incorporating it this time.
I think that it takes about 12months for it to begin breaking down. Man, I chased this rabbit down the hole before Hyroot gave me a good direction to go. My reoccurring problem has been low micronutrients. Bokashi and Grokashi address this issue and "High Brix" is also addressed with these methods. High Brix is all about nutrient dense crops and that is from carbohydrates and trace minerals. I just didn't know how to apply it until I came across the 'kashi and KNF.
 

SirSquashalot

Active Member
green sand and langebenite are great for k!

I have also done the same and took a Lil form everyones recipe and made it my own with what's easily available! here's my mix, but I'm still playing around with the amounts!
someone suggested I add everything together and do 3 cups of the mix per cu.ft. but I haven't done that in just go light on what's listed!

not on the list below, I also use dolomite lime, gro-Kashi, em1, and guanos sometimes.

View attachment 4227820
Yeah my list looks similar to yours. Thanks for the info, I'll look into that langebenite.
 

SirSquashalot

Active Member
I think that it takes about 12months for it to begin breaking down. Man, I chased this rabbit down the hole before Hyroot gave me a good direction to go. My reoccurring problem has been low micronutrients. Bokashi and Grokashi address this issue and "High Brix" is also addressed with these methods. High Brix is all about nutrient dense crops and that is from carbohydrates and trace minerals. I just didn't know how to apply it until I came across the 'kashi and KNF.
I appreciate the help. Yeah I think I'm going to start testing my soil(sending it to a lab), that will really help get things dialed in. Just have to keep my mixes from going anaerobic. I'm thinking maybe I sometimes didnt mix/churn often enough or maybe didnt have enough perlite mixed in and maybe that's the problem. I'm crossing my fingers that this batch stays good because I got plants going into it in a few weeks.
 

MustangStudFarm

Well-Known Member
The Kashi I got is from Build a Soil
Discover how our Kashi Blend, a diverse grain bokashi, can jumpstart your gardening and composting efforts!

WHAT’S IN YOUR KASHI BLEND?

Our Kashi Blend is derived from organic molasses, organic rice bran, organic wheat bran, organic camelina meal, organic malted barley, organic insect frass, EM-1, and trace minerals.

HOW TO USE ON PLANTS:

To use simply apply 1/3 cup to 15 gallons on soil every 10-14 days.

https://buildasoil.com/products/kashi-blend?variant=1040251460
I got my supplies today!!! I bought Azomite in bulk the best that I could, $49/44lbs. 10gal bucket, air lock, EM1, 50lbs wheat bran(Cattle feed), and Youngevitey. My wife was interested in the multi-vitamin, so we pulled the trigger on it. I think that I'm only missing the Super Cera for the Grokashi recipe.

Sorry man, I'm excited. I'm about to clone and start over with grokashi treated compost. I have some teen plants, but they are showing micronutrient deficiency.
DSC01081.JPG
 

Greenthumbs256

Well-Known Member
I appreciate the help. Yeah I think I'm going to start testing my soil(sending it to a lab), that will really help get things dialed in. Just have to keep my mixes from going anaerobic. I'm thinking maybe I sometimes didnt mix/churn often enough or maybe didnt have enough perlite mixed in and maybe that's the problem. I'm crossing my fingers that this batch stays good because I got plants going into it in a few weeks.
I like to use rice hauls instead of perlite
 

MustangStudFarm

Well-Known Member
I appreciate the help. Yeah I think I'm going to start testing my soil(sending it to a lab), that will really help get things dialed in. Just have to keep my mixes from going anaerobic. I'm thinking maybe I sometimes didnt mix/churn often enough or maybe didnt have enough perlite mixed in and maybe that's the problem. I'm crossing my fingers that this batch stays good because I got plants going into it in a few weeks.
Man, the only real help that I got from testing soil is that I was always low on micronutrients. I was composting rabbit manure and I never really got it to work for me, but Alan Adkisson grew up on a dairy farm and he said that ferments take the toxicity out of manure/soil. It blew my mind!!! Bokashi treated manure compost... Bokashi taking the toxicity out of Azomoite really sounds interesting too because Azomite is STACKED, but 35% aluminum oxide. Aluminum attributes to Alzheimers...
 

MustangStudFarm

Well-Known Member
This is a "Soil Savvy" test and it is a solubility test, so it is showing lock-out. I'm always chasing the trace/micronutients. Last time, it was Cu, Zn, and Mn. I was also using Cu, Mn, Zn sulfate instead of azomite and bokashi. This time, I'm chasing Boron... I really think that 'kashi is going to help with this...
DSC01082.JPG

This is the test where the K is supposed to be 2x the amount "target area". Also, having excess on this test is OK as long as nothing is too low, like lock-out from something else being too high, the Antagonist relationship.
 

MustangStudFarm

Well-Known Member
Dry Ingredient List:

  • Red Wheat 5 gallon
  • Azomite 1 cup
  • Sea+Real Salt 1 TBSP
Liquid Fermentation Ingredient List (plus 1/5 teaspoon EM Super Cera)

  • Water 2.5 Gallons (spring water or other non chlorinated, cloromine free water)
  • Black Strap Mollasses 2.5 Oz
  • Organic Beet Root Juice 2.5 Oz
  • Youngevity btt 2.0 organic 2.5 Oz (dry, but mix with your water)
  • EM-1 Microbial Innoculant 2.5 Oz
Thank you again, i'm about to mix this up!!!
 

SirSquashalot

Active Member
Man, the only real help that I got from testing soil is that I was always low on micronutrients. I was composting rabbit manure and I never really got it to work for me, but Alan Adkisson grew up on a dairy farm and he said that ferments take the toxicity out of manure/soil. It blew my mind!!! Bokashi treated manure compost... Bokashi taking the toxicity out of Azomoite really sounds interesting too because Azomite is STACKED, but 35% aluminum oxide. Aluminum attributes to Alzheimers...
Oh nice. Yeah I'm fairly new to organics, there's a good deal of terms I dont know, such as Bokashi lol I assume that's some sort of microbe. What i really need to do is buy a good ROLS book. Also teaming with microbes. Keep telling myself I'm going to find that one and read it but still havent lol
 

Greenthumbs256

Well-Known Member
Oh nice. Yeah I'm fairly new to organics, there's a good deal of terms I dont know, such as Bokashi lol I assume that's some sort of microbe. What i really need to do is buy a good ROLS book. Also teaming with microbes. Keep telling myself I'm going to find that one and read it but still havent lol
bokashi is something u buy just Google it, it's used for many things,

and buying a book is great, but honestly you can find most that info here, just read through a few threads! and decide which type of organic route you wanna take, bc their are many!
 

Wetdog

Well-Known Member
No I'm not following anyone's recipe, kind of took everything in from different recipe's and came up with my own make-up with probably around 9 amendments or so and I aim for around 3 cups per cu. ft.
I've had problems with getting adequate K in my soil though I've noticed, seems there's not much amendment out there that's rich in mostly K, none that I've come across anyway, I've never used green sand though but I'm incorporating it this time.
How often do you mix your soil after your initial mix? Do you leave the lid on the container completely covered or cracked open?
The reason I say my soil has went bad before is it has took on a dirty socks, musty stinky smell along with lost that bit of heat that you feel when the soil is cooking.
I'll look into those giant cloth pots. That's not a bad idea.
That 'musty' smell usually has two underlying causes, both related. First, a lack of drainage holes in whatever the mix is stored in and no air holes/loose lid on top.

The main reason is a lack of aeration (perlite), and not enough O2 in the mix. I start with ~40% perlite and usually end up with 50%+ aeration with the addition of pine bark mulch and bio char. That dirty sock smell is caused by anerobic bacteria which flourish in a oxygen deprived environment.

Easy to fix, just dump it out and let air get to it to get it right as rain. The anaerobic bacteria will die/go dormant and the aerobic bacteria will flourish as soon as air gets to it.

BTW, rice hulls are not really good for aeration. They work fine for a few months, then decompose down to a soggy mess that is the opposite of whats needed for aeration.

K is hard to come by in organics. I use kelp meal and greensand in my mixes, but also grow comfrey (AKA land kelp), that is really rich in K, even higher than kelp meal in K. Either the Bocking 14 or 4 cultivars are prefered. I mainly use it as worm food along with coffee grounds and top dress with the resulting VC. But the kelp meal and greensand compliment each other very well on their own. I add both @1cup/cf, along with the same amount of Azomite.

Once I've done my initial mixing and it goes into whatever I'm using for storage, I don't do any further mixing or turning of the mix. With adequate drainage/air and enough aeration in the mix, I've found there is no need and it's just extra work. Won't hurt if you do, but it's your call.

Wet
 

SirSquashalot

Active Member
That 'musty' smell usually has two underlying causes, both related. First, a lack of drainage holes in whatever the mix is stored in and no air holes/loose lid on top.

The main reason is a lack of aeration (perlite), and not enough O2 in the mix. I start with ~40% perlite and usually end up with 50%+ aeration with the addition of pine bark mulch and bio char. That dirty sock smell is caused by anerobic bacteria which flourish in a oxygen deprived environment.

Easy to fix, just dump it out and let air get to it to get it right as rain. The anaerobic bacteria will die/go dormant and the aerobic bacteria will flourish as soon as air gets to it.

BTW, rice hulls are not really good for aeration. They work fine for a few months, then decompose down to a soggy mess that is the opposite of whats needed for aeration.

K is hard to come by in organics. I use kelp meal and greensand in my mixes, but also grow comfrey (AKA land kelp), that is really rich in K, even higher than kelp meal in K. Either the Bocking 14 or 4 cultivars are prefered. I mainly use it as worm food along with coffee grounds and top dress with the resulting VC. But the kelp meal and greensand compliment each other very well on their own. I add both @1cup/cf, along with the same amount of Azomite.

Once I've done my initial mixing and it goes into whatever I'm using for storage, I don't do any further mixing or turning of the mix. With adequate drainage/air and enough aeration in the mix, I've found there is no need and it's just extra work. Won't hurt if you do, but it's your call.

Wet
Thanks!!! This post was incredibly helpful.
I've never used azomite, do you consider that a necessity?
I've been a little light on the perlite a few times and just figured I would add it in after the fact before actually using the soil. I bet that's where I had went wrong. Do you recommend that if I stick with these 33 gallon barrels that I drill holes into them everywhere? I fill them about half full, little bit more at most and have been leaving the lid cracked open slightly during cooking.
Also, I have a bunch of soil laid out on the floor trying to get it to dry out because it's been stored for a long time in closed containers and I was afraid that it went anaerobic. It's been laid out several days and I mix it around once a day, probably 5 inches thick of soil and it's just slightly moist but not completely dry. Do I need to let that completely dry out before I remix and use it again?
 

projectinfo

Well-Known Member
This is a "Soil Savvy" test and it is a solubility test, so it is showing lock-out. I'm always chasing the trace/micronutients. Last time, it was Cu, Zn, and Mn. I was also using Cu, Mn, Zn sulfate instead of azomite and bokashi. This time, I'm chasing Boron... I really think that 'kashi is going to help with this...
View attachment 4227827

This is the test where the K is supposed to be 2x the amount "target area". Also, having excess on this test is OK as long as nothing is too low, like lock-out from something else being too high, the Antagonist relationship.
One thread , same soil test picture five times. Lol dont use rabbit shit bud
 

Wetdog

Well-Known Member
Thanks!!! This post was incredibly helpful.
I've never used azomite, do you consider that a necessity?
I've been a little light on the perlite a few times and just figured I would add it in after the fact before actually using the soil. I bet that's where I had went wrong. Do you recommend that if I stick with these 33 gallon barrels that I drill holes into them everywhere? I fill them about half full, little bit more at most and have been leaving the lid cracked open slightly during cooking.
Also, I have a bunch of soil laid out on the floor trying to get it to dry out because it's been stored for a long time in closed containers and I was afraid that it went anaerobic. It's been laid out several days and I mix it around once a day, probably 5 inches thick of soil and it's just slightly moist but not completely dry. Do I need to let that completely dry out before I remix and use it again?
For the 32/33 gallon cans I normally just do the holes in the bottom for drainage since the lids are loose enough for air to get in and I don't drill them. IDK about holes *everywhere* since I've not done it, but some in the sides should provide more air to the mix. You would need to experiment to see how well that works/doesn't work for you. I can only offer guesses on that.

No, you don't need to let that mix completely dry out. Getting air to it was the important thing and you did that by spreading it out on the floor. Moist is fine. I would add more aeration while you have it spread out and easy to get to.

Can you find pine bark mulch in your area? It's been a part of my mix for over 40 years. It brings quite a bit to the table and I won't make a mix without it. This is bark, NOT wood chips and should be around fingernail size, not large. *I* add it at ~10% of the mix much like biochar.

You certainly need minerals and trace elements for your mix. I've stopped using rock dusts like granite and now only use Azomite and greensand for inputs. Greensand is a slow release, but lightning fast compared to granite or basalt that are super hard and really slow to break down. Greensand is a sedimentary rock, Azomite is a clay and both weather/release much faster than ignious (?) rock such as basalt or granite.

Kelp meal and comfrey both are excellent mineral and trace element sources.

No, Azomite isn't a necessity, but it does contain everything all in one package. The name says it all. A to Z Of Minerals Including Trace Elements. Using the Azomite and greensand and kelp meal and comfrey gives me 4 different sources of minerals and trace elements along with 4 different release rates. Micros are not an issue.

HTH

Wet
 
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