Karma Genetics no till grow journal

[INF Flux]

You're likely right about it being pH. Which sucks. I'd probably top dress with some fresh ewc and use good clean water for a bit, hope it evens out. They're still young and have lots of time to grow and flourish.

FRESH being the key here. Gotta jump start the life. Your mix sounds fine, adding in the mycos and bacteria should get you going.
The mykos you have, I'd use a turkey baster or something to make a hole an inch or two deep adjacent to the plant and drop some in there, make sure that the soil is not drying completely between watering. Once the bacteria and myco are established, you won't need to worry about pH or any of that, they'll regulate that.

 

[ShLUbY]

I'm sorry you're having troubles friend. I'll try and help as best I can!

Dec 30th update:

All 4 seedlings are looking horrible. Not sure if I should scrap these and start new seeds. The plants aren't getting any nutrition.

Possible causes:

- didn't inoculate soil properly
- ph issue due to new water source
- should have started using calmag sooner
- not watering often enough/letting soil get too dry
- weak soil mix

In the past I had issues with soil mixes burning my seedlings, this time they're not getting any nutrients, should I start over or try and salvage these? Is there a tea recipe that could get them back on track? Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

what is your new water source? and what was your old one?

you can rule out using cal mag altogether.... there's plenty of Ca and Mg in your recipe.

not watering enough will definitely inhibit any nutrient cycling. you know how it is, water is required for microbial life. So were you only watering around the seedling and not the whole container? and fwiw, I would start in a solo cup and not a 1 gal... but that's a minor thing. you can def make a one gal work. i doubt that had anything to do with this.

soil mix is definitely not weak if you followed the CC mix (which i know you did)

I have a pretty "hot" store bought soil, I may transplant these into a 3 gallons pot of that hot soil, actually 2 gallons of hot soil and the 1 gallon of CC mix they're currently in.

the problem with transplanting into a larger container is it won't matter. you still need roots to get to the new soil, and then you have to deal with moisture issues of keeping a little tiny plant in a big ol pot. if I were to try and transfer these to another mix, i'd maybe try and remove as much of your CC mix as possible from the roots and then plant in the new soil. maybe see how it goes with one of them? this all just seems strange to me...

This is the soil recipe I used:

Base:

1/3 Peat Moss
1/3 Rice Hulls
1/3 Compost (ewc, leaf, cow manure)

Amendments:

Kelp 1/2 cup per cubic foot
Neem Cake 1/2 cup per cf
Crab Meal 1/2 cup per cf
Malted Barley 1/2 cup per cf

Mineral Mx:

Basalt 1 cup per cubic foot
Oyster Shell flower 1 cup per cf
Gypsum 1 cup per cf
Glaciel Rock Dust 1 cup per cf

I'm sure you know how i feel about rice hulls for drainage... they work well for a little bit... but over time, meh. they just seem to get soft and flimsy, and then start to lack as a drainage material. I would never run a mix with rice hulls as the sole material for drainage. they're also small, which allows for soil compaction. love them as a mulch though! . this is just my preference from my experience with them. I'm sure others have had plenty of success with them.

other than that... this recipe should be bangin.

so let me ask you these couple of things...

1) did you thoroughly hydrate your peat moss before mixing up this recipe?
2) how much did you make, and if you had a guess, how much water did you add to the soil once it was mixed?
3) what did you compost this soil in?? (that means cook, but i hate the word cook cause it makes zero sense and i wish it would go away!!!)

 

[Bubba's girl]

I'm sorry you're having troubles friend. I'll try and help as best I can!

Thanks for helping ShLUbY.

what is your new water source? and what was your old one?

Bottled spring water with unknown ph, previously use RO water with a ph of 7

you can rule out using cal mag altogether.... there's plenty of Ca and Mg in your recipe.

not watering enough will definitely inhibit any nutrient cycling. you know how it is, water is required for microbial life. So were you only watering around the seedling and not the whole container? and fwiw, I would start in a solo cup and not a 1 gal... but that's a minor thing. you can def make a one gal work. i doubt that had anything to do with this.

Yeah, just watering around the seedling, as I felt the roots were still only at that area still, I think this was the first time I went straight to 1 gallons instead of solos.

soil mix is definitely not weak if you followed the CC mix (which i know you did)

I do the math several times before mixing the batch, and I stay straight when mixing to make sure I don't make a stoner move and put like quadruple the amount of ammendments or whatever.

the problem with transplanting into a larger container is it won't matter. you still need roots to get to the new soil, and then you have to deal with moisture issues of keeping a little tiny plant in a big ol pot. if I were to try and transfer these to another mix, i'd maybe try and remove as much of your CC mix as possible from the roots and then plant in the new soil. maybe see how it goes with one of them? this all just seems strange to me...

I'd think I could much of the CC mix off fairly easily, since I doubt there is much root development happened.

I'll check the PH of the water I was using, I have a feeling it's way out of range, would it still seem strange?

I'm sure you know how i feel about rice hulls for drainage... they work well for a little bit... but over time, meh. they just seem to get soft and flimsy, and then start to lack as a drainage material. I would never run a mix with rice hulls as the sole material for drainage. they're also small, which allows for soil compaction. love them as a mulch though! . this is just my preference from my experience with them. I'm sure others have had plenty of success with them.

Duly noted.

other than that... this recipe should be bangin.

so let me ask you these couple of things...

1) did you thoroughly hydrate your peat moss before mixing up this recipe?
2) how much did you make, and if you had a guess, how much water did you add to the soil once it was mixed?
3) what did you compost this soil in?? (that means cook, but i hate the word cook cause it makes zero sense and i wish it would go away!!!)

^ other questions answered above^

1) My peat moss came in a brick so I had to hydrate to be able to measure it, so yeah.
2) 60 gals, it was 1 or 2 water cooler jugs of RO water, they are 18.9 litres each, think it was 2 but not 100%
3) In a kiddie pool, with a tarp over, not sealed but all edges tucked under the pool. To be honest I didn't turn it often and I didn't add a lot of water, it sat for several months. It seemed fairly damp imho.

 

[ShLUbY]

^ other questions answered above^

1) My peat moss came in a brick so I had to hydrate to be able to measure it, so yeah.
2) 60 gals, it was 1 or 2 water cooler jugs of RO water, they are 18.9 litres each, think it was 2 but not 100%
3) In a kiddie pool, with a tarp over, not sealed but all edges tucked under the pool. To be honest I didn't turn it often and I didn't add a lot of water, it sat for several months. It seemed fairly damp imho.

ok so it all seems fine to me methodically. one thing i would be considering is not turning the pile and introducing fresh oxygen to the mix. did you notice any smells of ammonia or anything when you dug into it?

spring water should be fine, i wouldn't factor that into the equation.

just for fun, take about 5 grams of your soil, and 30 mL of RO water and shake it up for about five minutes, run it through a coffee filter and test the pH of the filtered water. this should give you an idea of where your soils pH is.

watering only around the seedlings and not the whole medium will definitely affect the microbial life because the rest of the container remains dry, and will result in roots air pruning themselves due to the dry media

also only rice hulls for drainage may be compacting your soil, and affecting the amount of oxygen in the mix.

 

[INF Flux]

ok so it all seems fine to me methodically. one thing i would be considering is not turning the pile and introducing fresh oxygen to the mix. did you notice any smells of ammonia or anything when you dug into it?

spring water should be fine, i wouldn't factor that into the equation.

just for fun, take about 5 grams of your soil, and 30 mL of RO water and shake it up for about five minutes, run it through a coffee filter and test the pH of the filtered water. this should give you an idea of where your soils pH is.

watering only around the seedlings and not the whole medium will definitely affect the microbial life because the rest of the container remains dry, and will result in roots air pruning themselves due to the dry media

also only rice hulls for drainage may be compacting your soil, and affecting the amount of oxygen in the mix.

Good advice, curious to see if ph is a factor or if it's a soil food web/moisture
thing.

 

[AkFrost]

I have been using coots mix for over a year now. I agree with Shluby about the rice hulls. I use rice hulls in my worm bin, starter soil mix, and some In my mulch. I believe it breaks down to fast and if it’s not causing compaction issues already then it eventually will. Stick with what CC’s mix and use lava or pumice for drainage/ aeration. The only time I have had issues in my no till is when it went too dry. No-till/ organic soil needs to have a constant moister level instead of the dry/ wet cycles that most cannabis growers are used too. When moister levels stay constant microbiology stays happy and keeps cycling nutrients for the plants. I would give your plants a worm casting top dress, a cover crop seeding and a good watering.

 

[DankTankerous]

I have been using coots mix for over a year now. I agree with Shluby about the rice hulls. I use rice hulls in my worm bin, starter soil mix, and some In my mulch. I believe it breaks down to fast and if it’s not causing compaction issues already then it eventually will. Stick with what CC’s mix and use lava or pumice for drainage/ aeration. The only time I have had issues in my no till is when it went too dry. No-till/ organic soil needs to have a constant moister level instead of the dry/ wet cycles that most cannabis growers are used too. When moister levels stay constant microbiology stays happy and keeps cycling nutrients for the plants. I would give your plants a worm casting top dress, a cover crop seeding and a good watering.

Thank you go explaining the importance of keeping the moisture level constant. However are you not overwatering your pants though? Or why aren’t they showing signs?

 

[ShLUbY]

Thank you go explaining the importance of keeping the moisture level constant. However are you not overwatering your pants though? Or why aren’t they showing signs?

a simple way to combat this problem is increasing the drainage amount. i run about 40-45% drainage material in my mixes so i can have plenty of air, and plenty of water at the same time.

the method of keeping that moisture level appropriate is watering less more frequently. never have runoff, so you never achieve field capacity (which means there is still plenty of air in the rhizosphere). Never let the pot get too light.

the symptoms of overwatering come not from too much water, but from too little fresh O2 in the medium.

 

[DankTankerous]

a simple way to combat this problem is increasing the drainage amount. i run about 40-45% drainage material in my mixes so i can have plenty of air, and plenty of water at the same time.

the method of keeping that moisture level appropriate is watering less more frequently. never have runoff, so you never achieve field capacity (which means there is still plenty of air in the rhizosphere). Never let the pot get too light.

the symptoms of overwatering come not from too much water, but from too little fresh O2 in the medium.

Wow that makes so much sense! Thank you for explaining that. I don’t do well with rules I don’t understand, but you made it simple. Got it.

 

[AkFrost]

Thank you go explaining the importance of keeping the moisture level constant. However are you not overwatering your pants though? Or why aren’t they showing signs?

Shluby nailed it, with the last post. I stuck with Coots mix though. You start to get a good feeling of what your plants need when it comes to moister levels. About a month and a half ago I took the judging out of the equation and bought some Blumat’s and there moister sensor. Now my soil is almost always a constant 80-120mbar as recommended. Only time it really fluctuates is when I top feed.

 

[ShLUbY]

Shluby nailed it, with the last post. I stuck with Coots mix though. You start to get a good feeling of what your plants need when it comes to moister levels. About a month and a half ago I took the judging out of the equation and bought some Blumat’s and there moister sensor. Now my soil is almost always a constant 80-120mbar as recommended. Only time it really fluctuates is when I top feed.

i too use them. they're great when they work, but when i have a runaway... i want to

 

[Greenthumbs256]

subbed

 

[GentleCaveman]

Soil compaction is caused by soil(dirt in this situation) being dead, not by rice hulls or not adding enough perlite. No one adds perlite to the forest, fungi and bacteria is what makes the soil aerated and fluffy. Look it up. Its really strange to see thread full of knowledgable people not knowing the most important thing about No-Till.

 

[ShLUbY]

Soil compaction is caused by soil(dirt in this situation) being dead, not by rice hulls or not adding enough perlite. No one adds perlite to the forest, fungi and bacteria is what makes the soil aerated and fluffy. Look it up. Its really strange to see thread full of knowledgable people not knowing the most important thing about No-Till.

i think substrate density was more what we were talking about with the rice hulls rather than compaction, but you are right, we were misusing the term Thank you for the correction!

 

[GentleCaveman]

i think substrate density was more what we were talking about with the rice hulls rather than compaction, but you are right, we were misusing the term Thank you for the correction!

Well its same shit with different smell. Problem is the same so solution is the same. Get the most dense rocky clay-like soil you can find, mulch it with 4-8 inches of wood chips and see what happens to that soil in matter of months. After few months you gonna be able to dig trough that soil with your pinky. This is what fungi does and wood chips are fungus food on top of being a cover for your soil. Dead soil is just bacteria dominated soil (most of the time, sometimes they are both dead). Just because there is bacteria that doesn't mean your soil is good to go. You need that fungi desperately to keep your soil at its best condition.

Mulching is the biggest THE BIGGEST thing most of you guys are missing on.

There is no exposed soil in nature. Its like skin of the earth, if you take it off you gonna have problems. We humans evolved to believe what we see, so we couldn't believe that there is plants thriving in what seems to be a mess. We had to take the cover off to see it. Nature mulches itself with leaves twigs needles every fall. Thats what keeps the soil alive, moised and fertilised at all times.

 

[ShLUbY]

Well its same shit with different smell. Problem is the same so solution is the same. Get the most dense rocky clay-like soil you can find, mulch it with 4-8 inches of wood chips and see what happens to that soil in matter of months. After few months you gonna be able to dig trough that soil with your pinky. This is what fungi does and wood chips are fungus food on top of being a cover for your soil. Dead soil is just bacteria dominated soil (most of the time, sometimes they are both dead). Just because there is bacteria that doesn't mean your soil is good to go. You need that fungi desperately to keep your soil at its best condition.

Mulching is the biggest THE BIGGEST thing most of you guys are missing on.

cool thanks for the vids. and yeah, been advocating mulching for a long time! Started realizing that my use of stones for mulch (pumice) was not helping my situation any with the fungal components. went back to straw. been thinking about moving to wood chips, just getting them a little smaller than they come in the bag. I use last years leaves on my outdoor garden beds. they work amazing!

 

[GentleCaveman]

cool thanks for the vids. and yeah, been advocating mulching for a long time! Started realizing that my use of stones for mulch (pumice) was not helping my situation any with the fungal components. went back to straw. been thinking about moving to wood chips, just getting them a little smaller than they come in the bag. I use last years leaves on my outdoor garden beds. they work amazing!

I just go and pick up right from the forest, if you have healthy plants nothing is gonna eat them. Nature never kills the healthy one, it just cleans the duts so only strong ones breed and specie survives.

 

[ShLUbY]

first picture is taken 13 days ago, other ones are from yesterday. And last one is from right now. This is my first grow by the way.

looks good man. ok let's leave this thread to the original poster look forward to conversing with you around the forum!

 

[pollen205]

Well its same shit with different smell. Problem is the same so solution is the same. Get the most dense rocky clay-like soil you can find, mulch it with 4-8 inches of wood chips and see what happens to that soil in matter of months. After few months you gonna be able to dig trough that soil with your pinky. This is what fungi does and wood chips are fungus food on top of being a cover for your soil. Dead soil is just bacteria dominated soil (most of the time, sometimes they are both dead). Just because there is bacteria that doesn't mean your soil is good to go. You need that fungi desperately to keep your soil at its best condition.

Mulching is the biggest THE BIGGEST thing most of you guys are missing on.

There is no exposed soil in nature. Its like skin of the earth, if you take it off you gonna have problems. We humans evolved to believe what we see, so we couldn't believe that there is plants thriving in what seems to be a mess. We had to take the cover off to see it. Nature mulches itself with leaves twigs needles every fall. Thats what keeps the soil alive, moised and fertilised at all times.

You say that wood chips are fungus food.. Do you know if they feed with straw too... Have straw right now so if is the same thing will use straw

 

[ShLUbY]

You say that wood chips are fungus food.. Do you know if they feed with straw too... Have straw right now so if is the same thing will use straw

Fungi love straw! We use straw to grow oyster mushrooms at the mushroom farm I work at.