Are these ready for flower

[Thundercat]

I'm not gonna argue with you about it because in the end the plant isn't finished on a certain day that a breeder says. Also if you can't look at your plant over the course of 24-48 hours and tell it's flowering you shouldn't be growing. It's arbitrary to look at the plant and judge at growth.

What is arbitrary is saying a plant is flowering just because of the light switch. If your plant is not mature it won't start to flower. Certain genetics also just take longer to transition.

Have you ever grown a plant 12/12 from seed? They don't start flowering for several weeks.

Autos don't start flowering until they show flowers....

I've been through this with growers over the years many times. I'm just trying to help your understanding of the plant better. The better you understand the biological growth cycles of the plant the better you'll be able to grow .

That being said many breeders do state a length of 12/12 time. Which is just fine.

Many breeders state the length of flower time which is not the same as 12/12 time.

Plants don't understand that you flipped your lights to 12/12 they take time to react to that change and change their growth. Just like growing out doors you don't start to flower on some decided day. The plants are flowering when they show flowers.

Really you can count from whenever you want the plants won't be done till they are done. Counting the days won't make it happen faster.

 

[shawnery]

How can you say that the one thing that makes the cannabis flower is also arbitrary? 12/12 is as important to when flowering starts then anything else unless you're growing autos.

If you believe there donw when there done why are we having this stupid discussion then, that makes zero since to me?

All plants understand is when you switch the lighting in terms of when to flower, this also makes no sense, not that plants have reasons or understandings of their actions either.

Plants do what they do because of hormones and what those hormones tell the plant to do is dependent on outside forces, one of which is lighting.

 

[Thundercat]

Yep plants use hormones and it takes time for those hormones to do that job is exactly my point. That time is called the transition, not flowering.

12/12 is totally arbitrary how do you not realize that. There are other light cycles that will make the plants flower. They just need enough dark time to be able to build up enough of the correct hormones. There aren't very many places that get 12 hours of darkness outside during the growing season yet the plants still flower.

I was having a discussion about plant biology like I said before. Just trying I help you have a better understanding. Over simplifying it like many cannabis growers do and saying the plants are flowering instantly at 12/12 is biologically incorrect. I don't know of any plants in the world you would say are flowering unless you see evidence of flower growth.

 

[shawnery]

I love this type of discussion and it's so indicative of cannabis growing information in general. Multiple people with multiple theories and beliefs about one particular aspect of growing.

Just find me two reliable sources that back up your theory, belief or understanding so I can have data to support my attempt to belief your take on this as well. Ofcourse you don't have to and probably have no desire to prove it or convince me but I do. Why waste our time here if not to open the monds of those you spend you valuable time attempting to convince?

 

[baaael]

So are you saying that if a strain is lets say 7 weeks or the breeder says its a 7 week strain that the 7 weeks should be started after u see flowers start to form?
I understand the plants ready when its ready but if all things are good in your room then i doubt a 7 week strain will take 9 to 10 weeks to finish flowering.
Do you think the 7 weeks starts at 12/12 or after u see flowers start to form?

 

[baaael]

Also to the OP,
If people are flipping 12/12 from clone after say a week veg after transplant then you can definitely flip her now

 

[Thundercat]

So are you saying that if a strain is lets say 7 weeks or the breeder says its a 7 week strain that the 7 weeks should be started after u see flowers start to form?
I understand the plants ready when its ready but if all things are good in your room then i doubt a 7 week strain will take 9 to 10 weeks to finish flowering.
Do you think the 7 weeks starts at 12/12 or after u see flowers start to form?

The 7 weeks would start when the flowers start. That's what I'm saying yes. I have grown many different strains and hundreds if not over 1000 plants in the last 14 years I've been growing. I've seen this over and over in my own garden, and in the gardens of many friends both in real life and on line.

Many breeders will specify flower time or 12/12 time.

I also don't put a lot of weight on what most breeders that are out here trying to sell seeds say. There are not tons of strains that are actually fully mature in 7 weeks. Especially if you are saying 7 weeks from 12/12.

If you are flowering mature plants then the transition only takes 5-7 days. Which is when it's not real noticeable and the plants are still done when they are done.

If you flip immature plants or certain genetics like some sativas to 12/12 it takes much longer for them to begin to flower. They genetically need to reach a certain point before it will happen.

Here is an article about the transition between veg and flower. http://www.plantcell.org/content/10/12/1973

As I said before many nutrient companies mention the transition. And I don't use snake oil nutrients either.

 

[baaael]

The 7 weeks would start when the flowers start. That's what I'm saying yes. I have grown many different strains and hundreds if not over 1000 plants in the last 14 years I've been growing. I've seen this over and over in my own garden, and in the gardens of many friends both in real life and on line.

I also don't put a lot of weight on what most breeders that are out here trying to sell seeds say. There are not tons of strains that are actually fully mature in 7 weeks. Especially if you are saying 7 weeks from 12/12.

If you are flowering mature plants then the transition only takes 5-7 days. Which is when it's not real noticeable and the plants are still done when they are done.

If you flip immature plants or certain genetics like some sativas to 12/12 it takes much longer for them to begin to flower. They genetically need to reach a certain point before it will happen.

Here is an article about the transition between veg and flower. http://www.plantcell.org/content/10/12/1973

As I said before many nutrient companies mention the transition. And I don't use snake oil nutrients either.

ok bro ,thanks for your input and i will be looking in to this and its very interesting to me.
i allways assumed its in flower from the day i make it 12/12 and i would count say 8 weeks from that date and then go a little further if i felt the plant needed it.
Maybe a thread on this would be good to get everyones view on it on here.

 

[baaael]

cheers for the link about it to man

 

[Thundercat]

Here is another link just take a look at the stages of development. They define this transition period clearly and separately from the flowering period. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_cultivation

 

[baaael]

Here is another link just take a look at the stages of development. They define this transition period clearly and separately from the flowering period. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_cultivation

interseting!
i allways thought pre flower was the week or so before flower

 

[Thundercat]

interseting!
i allways thought pre flower was the week or so before flower

"Preflowers" happen when the plant shows sex before beginning to flower.

"Preflowering" is the transition stage when the plant is beginning the internal processes to start flowering.

 

[shawnery]

Just to be clear,

Anyone can add anything to a wiki page. Doesn't have to be true or even verified unless they've changed something. I specifically try to stay away from wiki when searching for factual data.

Plant cell is thorough yet I didn't find anything that really supported either of us. Another thing is the transition you speak of may be more apparent in outdoor growa because the lights don't switch they slowely change.

 

[Thundercat]

Plant cell mentioned the "transition period" between veg and flower mutliple times.

Its actually less apparent outdoors because you don't have a set day you switched the lights and caused the plant to start changing. Outdoors you just notice lots of growth and then it flowers.

Indoors there is a clearly defined period between when you switch the lights, and when the flowers actually start to form.

 

[shawnery]

This isn't going anywhere but I appreciate the effort and attempt to help me see things your way even though I ended up not being able to!

 

[Thundercat]

No problem man have a great night! Keep your plants green and lights burning.

 

[baaael]

This isn't going anywhere but I appreciate the effort and attempt to help me see things your way even though I ended up not being able to!

Haha ,thats funny man

 

[Anthraxas]

This isn't going anywhere but I appreciate the effort and attempt to help me see things your way even though I ended up not being able to!

Well I just took my 3 week old skunk to a 12/12 and will push more bloom nutrients to see if I can get her to flower early just as an experiment.

 

[Thundercat]

Well I just took my 3 week old skunk to a 12/12 and will push more bloom nutrients to see if I can get her to flower early just as an experiment.

Have you checked out any of the 12/12 from seed grows?

I tried a couple back in the day. The plants grow kinda like autos. They still spend several weeks growing vegetatively and then once they reach genetic maturity they will begin to flower.

That's why typically clones start to flower faster then seed plants. The clones are already genetically mature.