What's the longest time you can keep your res without topping off?
- Thread starter Keesje
- Start date
HydroRed
Well-Known Member
Maybe others have time to hover over their hydro setups all day....not this guy lol. I dont change my res but once every 4 wks, and as of lately I havent changed it at all due to physical limitations. Havent seen a difference between the same strains I was running when I changed it. Not gonna say theres no benefit to it, but has it been a noticable benefit for me, -not at all.
southernguy99
Well-Known Member
Lol Sherlock,
Calling me thats ok he's was a smart person,
Maybe I just have a different mind set but I'd ask why would anyone want run a system half ass,because doing monthly rez changes etc is exactly that.Why would you want to recycle solution thats lost most of its active ions, and send dead solution to your plants, why recycle solution that you have been adding ph up or down to for a month,why would you even take a chance on running the solution for a month or longer that is possibly growing a bacteria or pathogen. why would you want to run solution that the plant has been releasing H+ or OH- in as that fucks with PH, why would you run the solution knowing its not balanced and have the risk of lockout or deficiency, in our lab testing a solution that is run longer then a week always ran deficient or had issues with something.why run a solution for a month knowing the makeup of the solution should change weekly with the growth of the plant. etc etc , and all for what not wanting to do a weekly water change.
A proper hydro system is not supposed to be a system that is a start up and forget it system or for a lazy person or for someone that doesn't have any extra time. Using the restrictions you listed above , if someone came to me and said that and they wanted to run hydro system I'd ask them why the hell would they want to run hydro, telling someone to run a bigger rez because they have no time to look after the system is just as bad advice as what the guy at the hydro store gave. Hydro should be hands on hydro should require some of your time.
If someone doesn't have 15-20 minutes a day and 30 minutes every week to do a water change why are you running hydro it makes no sense,you can run sunshine in pots run a auto feed system from a 50 gallon rez set it and forget it for the most part and eliminate a whole bunch of issues,water issues , bacteria/pathogen ph , nutrient, deficiency issues etc etc the list goes on. And a sunshine pot setup will out grow a half ass hydro setup, over the years I've proved that to more then a few guys. And i will also say if someone see's no difference between weekly or monthly rez changes your growing issues a far deeper then then just your solution, we have lab tested this, we have lab tested solutions and how they change and how quick they change and how quick they can become deficient and just because your plants doesn't show it doesn't mean the solution is not running deficient.
Calling me thats ok he's was a smart person,
Maybe I just have a different mind set but I'd ask why would anyone want run a system half ass,because doing monthly rez changes etc is exactly that.Why would you want to recycle solution thats lost most of its active ions, and send dead solution to your plants, why recycle solution that you have been adding ph up or down to for a month,why would you even take a chance on running the solution for a month or longer that is possibly growing a bacteria or pathogen. why would you want to run solution that the plant has been releasing H+ or OH- in as that fucks with PH, why would you run the solution knowing its not balanced and have the risk of lockout or deficiency, in our lab testing a solution that is run longer then a week always ran deficient or had issues with something.why run a solution for a month knowing the makeup of the solution should change weekly with the growth of the plant. etc etc , and all for what not wanting to do a weekly water change.
A proper hydro system is not supposed to be a system that is a start up and forget it system or for a lazy person or for someone that doesn't have any extra time. Using the restrictions you listed above , if someone came to me and said that and they wanted to run hydro system I'd ask them why the hell would they want to run hydro, telling someone to run a bigger rez because they have no time to look after the system is just as bad advice as what the guy at the hydro store gave. Hydro should be hands on hydro should require some of your time.
If someone doesn't have 15-20 minutes a day and 30 minutes every week to do a water change why are you running hydro it makes no sense,you can run sunshine in pots run a auto feed system from a 50 gallon rez set it and forget it for the most part and eliminate a whole bunch of issues,water issues , bacteria/pathogen ph , nutrient, deficiency issues etc etc the list goes on. And a sunshine pot setup will out grow a half ass hydro setup, over the years I've proved that to more then a few guys. And i will also say if someone see's no difference between weekly or monthly rez changes your growing issues a far deeper then then just your solution, we have lab tested this, we have lab tested solutions and how they change and how quick they change and how quick they can become deficient and just because your plants doesn't show it doesn't mean the solution is not running deficient.
Last edited:
Keesje
Well-Known Member
I agree that you have to get the most out of a system. But if it turns out that there is no difference between a rez change of a week or a rez change of 10 days, I would opt for 10 days.
I try to find information about how people work and what the results are.
For me, a benchmark is to get 1 gram per 1 Watt HPS per 1 square meter in a period of 10/11 weeks from clone to harvest. Without CO2.
In the past, I harvested between 500 and 600 grams (Amnesia and Cheese) per square meter under a 600 HPS on soil and coco, but I just don't like these mediums and this way of growing.
Want to switch to eb & flow, and if it is necessary to change the res every week to get the same results, it will be 1 week. But if it is possible with 2 weeks, then it's also sufficient.
By making a res larger, you postpone the moment when the solution becomes 'dangerously' deficient.
That seems a fact to me. The only question is whether it is sufficient to only rely on making it bigger.
And of course other problems may occur when you do not change your rez regularly.
I try to find information about how people work and what the results are.
For me, a benchmark is to get 1 gram per 1 Watt HPS per 1 square meter in a period of 10/11 weeks from clone to harvest. Without CO2.
In the past, I harvested between 500 and 600 grams (Amnesia and Cheese) per square meter under a 600 HPS on soil and coco, but I just don't like these mediums and this way of growing.
Want to switch to eb & flow, and if it is necessary to change the res every week to get the same results, it will be 1 week. But if it is possible with 2 weeks, then it's also sufficient.
By making a res larger, you postpone the moment when the solution becomes 'dangerously' deficient.
That seems a fact to me. The only question is whether it is sufficient to only rely on making it bigger.
And of course other problems may occur when you do not change your rez regularly.
Last edited:
Hydro4life
Well-Known Member
And just for arguments sake and to break it down in a nutshell..... if someone was to offer me a job to earn $10,000 for 100 hours of my labour and someone else was to offer me a job for $12,000 for 300 hours worth of my labour, which would i choose? It's a no brainer really when you break down hourly wage! And all keesje is doing is a bit of research to find out best hourly wage.....
Scottmurphy12
Member
What piece of tech are they using to analyse what nutrient the water is deficient in? V. Interesting
southernguy99
Well-Known Member
Hey Keesie
For a home grower 7 to 10 days is where you want to be, I think most nutrient companies recommend that, I preferably like no more then 7 but 10 is still reasonable. if there is issues change early if things are ok run 10 days, I mean i don't really care what people do but telling others its fine to run a month etc is really bad advice especially for new growers, shit is going to happen , their not going to understand whats happening , and there going to chase their tail. we see it all the time.
For me if someone is burning 1000w , 2000w of lights , whatever it is, putting the effort to make sure temps, humidity etc etc are all in check, why would you want to feed with a solution out of balance, and thats the key to hydro that can be controlled , have your plants feed on the highest percentage of balanced solution for maximum uptake.
I personally after some of the studies I've been part of and shit I seen, I wouldn't say that a larger rez postpones and is fact, because time and many other factors are against you. from the time the nutrient are put in the rez they are constantly changing, and remember know one make's , not a company or any anyone building a solution can make them 100% balanced. so more isn't necessarily better. the percentages between ions are the same, and when you factor in what the plants are taking out,the extra ions floating around doing noting but interfering with other ion uptake, more ions floating around doing nothing leads to more bonding issues, there will still be H+ and OH- released, ph swing cause the break up of the atomic bonds, the newly broken bonds allow the freed ions to re-combine with other atoms to create new compounds that are insoluble or not wanted. air saturation, plus many other factors, and by the end of the week your larger rez is in no better shape then your smaller one.Just because a ppm meter says there is ions in the water doesn't mean there available to the plant, from the minute the solution is made the percentage of available nutrients drops with time..
Pro growers I know change solution every couple days because the key is they want their plants to benefit from receiving a balanced nutrient solution for the greatest possible time. and there is a big difference having your plants feed off the high end of a balanced solution as opposed to the low end, every day makes a difference.but for the home grower a week is really where you want to be.
For a home grower 7 to 10 days is where you want to be, I think most nutrient companies recommend that, I preferably like no more then 7 but 10 is still reasonable. if there is issues change early if things are ok run 10 days, I mean i don't really care what people do but telling others its fine to run a month etc is really bad advice especially for new growers, shit is going to happen , their not going to understand whats happening , and there going to chase their tail. we see it all the time.
For me if someone is burning 1000w , 2000w of lights , whatever it is, putting the effort to make sure temps, humidity etc etc are all in check, why would you want to feed with a solution out of balance, and thats the key to hydro that can be controlled , have your plants feed on the highest percentage of balanced solution for maximum uptake.
I personally after some of the studies I've been part of and shit I seen, I wouldn't say that a larger rez postpones and is fact, because time and many other factors are against you. from the time the nutrient are put in the rez they are constantly changing, and remember know one make's , not a company or any anyone building a solution can make them 100% balanced. so more isn't necessarily better. the percentages between ions are the same, and when you factor in what the plants are taking out,the extra ions floating around doing noting but interfering with other ion uptake, more ions floating around doing nothing leads to more bonding issues, there will still be H+ and OH- released, ph swing cause the break up of the atomic bonds, the newly broken bonds allow the freed ions to re-combine with other atoms to create new compounds that are insoluble or not wanted. air saturation, plus many other factors, and by the end of the week your larger rez is in no better shape then your smaller one.Just because a ppm meter says there is ions in the water doesn't mean there available to the plant, from the minute the solution is made the percentage of available nutrients drops with time..
Pro growers I know change solution every couple days because the key is they want their plants to benefit from receiving a balanced nutrient solution for the greatest possible time. and there is a big difference having your plants feed off the high end of a balanced solution as opposed to the low end, every day makes a difference.but for the home grower a week is really where you want to be.
klx
Well-Known Member
So how much do you produce, per square foot of floor space, per kilowatt hour and how many res's are you maintaining by yourself?
HydroRed
Well-Known Member
I wouldnt go as far as saying anyone is recycling anything. Plants do drink, and in the process the reservoir gets topped off with fresh water ph'd and ppm set with proper nutrients for that part of the cycle. Once the plants are in their 1-2 week of flower they are using a gallon+ per day and 2 gal per day by week 4. Plenty of fresh going in. Not to say there may be a buildup of salts at that point, but not enough to even remotely stifle my grows. Its been quite rewarding being lazy lately. As for the "changing res every month" ...that was a response given when asked what we do, not what we think he should do. It wasnt advice, so stop using the shit out of context. Its pretty clear whats going on if read from the very first post.
southernguy99
Well-Known Member
So we lab tested everything and this was a while ago, we were building weekly formulas so we wanted to know through a specific week what the plant was talking, so we could feed it for that specific week, but in turn we also tested daily for specific ion depletion so we could do nutrient top up etc without doing water changes,what we found out was it was so many variables in the nutrient uptake that it was impossible to do top ups and keep a balance solution without testing each day, and that wasn't viable.so we realized it was much easier to change weekly and feed for that week. They have meters out now that do specific ion reading I believe pretty much for big professional grow ops, for that every reason to top up depleted nutrients without changing the whole system. I can guarantee you its not an affordable setup for a home grower.
southernguy99
Well-Known Member
Well that depends on the setup, just a basic setup 10 to 12 buckets 4 lights and 100g rez, with basic solution 1lb a plant I get about 5 days out of the rez coming into flower they take about 30-35 gallons a night , I usually just top up with water on day 4 to give them a drink and change day 5, but that depends on humidity
our more advanced systems where there is much more consistent environment control, lighting temps humidity etc, bucket humidity specific 2 or 3 day solutions, full foliar feeding regiment, even through flower if temps are below 79,etc etc Its a lot of work ,but this will push the envelope.
southernguy99
Well-Known Member
Yeah I have plenty and of various strains, actually I have some beauties of a strain I got from a guy on here,but I can guarantee you I don't care how legal it is or isn't I don't send or post pics to anyone. but theres a guy one here pulling over 4 with 2 single end hps lights in soil
southernguy99
Well-Known Member
Red man sounds like your taking it personal, I never wrote anything specific to anything or that anyone wrote, I could care less how anyone runs their system, I was just talking in the general terms top ups weekly flushes etc and why there so important in a recirculating system. and if some of you guys don't like it thats to bad but I can assure you I have the education,Knowledge and professional grow experience behind me to back it up, there is many threads people talking about 3-4 week changes maybe 1 change maybe none,thats not the norm and its not the way a recirculating system is supposed to be run, and there is a very small percent of people that can actually do it and get away with it, but you'll never maximize the system, thats the info I was giving for the people on here reading that are new and don't know any better yet, and the importance of maintaining a balanced solution.
Keesje
Well-Known Member
They do an analysis of the water.
I have seen them using a machine like this, but there are many different ones.
https://hannainst.com/hi83300-multiparameter-photometers
I don't think that there is a device that can measure all elements, but I am no expert at this at all.
The growers that I visit never change their rez. They just top off and add single elements.
The only time they change is when it needs maintenance. But they try to avoid it.
They run a perpetual system: Clones go in on one side and like on a slow river they get to the point of harvest.
They grow vegetables and herbs and stuff like that; all legal.
Last edited:
Keesje
Well-Known Member
1 lb a plant is not saying a lot.
If you have 3 of those per 1 square meter with 1 x 600 W HPS and your whole run takes no more then 12 weeks, you should be crowned as The King.
If you have 1 per 1 square meter and your whole run takes 3 months, I would feel sorry for you.
So what is the yield per square meter with how much light in how many weeks?
I am really interested, because it would give me some insight in your system.
Jefferson1977
Well-Known Member
I've run my res (100 gallons for 8x4) , just filling it back up with solution after it gets 50% down, and only doing a res change once or twice for a whole grow which included 4 weeks veg.
Jefferson1977
Well-Known Member
I did it that way for many grows, I did notice some strains showed mild deficiencies, but most did not. Holy shit did my MegaCrop bag last forever though.
HydroRed
Well-Known Member
Im still working off the 5lb bag I got last year.
myke
Well-Known Member
You guys still talking about this?
I use my ppm meter everyday.
Go like this
Day 1 1200. All good
Day 2 1150. Eating and using water all good replace back to 1200
Day 3 same as 2
Day4 same as day 2
Day5 same
Day. 8 or so ppm doesn’t drop. Actually goes up a little. Hmmm. Top up plain water
Day 9 ppm up again hmmmm top up with plain water
Day 10. Ppm staying same. Even though I’m adding 12 litres a day of plain water. Time to flush. It’s just that easy.
So if your system is bigger or your not hitting them hard with nutes your mileage may vary. The point is the ppm meter is telling u something.
Changing nutes in a hydro system is easy. There’s a pump in it,use it. Don’t be so lazy.
I use my ppm meter everyday.
Go like this
Day 1 1200. All good
Day 2 1150. Eating and using water all good replace back to 1200
Day 3 same as 2
Day4 same as day 2
Day5 same
Day. 8 or so ppm doesn’t drop. Actually goes up a little. Hmmm. Top up plain water
Day 9 ppm up again hmmmm top up with plain water
Day 10. Ppm staying same. Even though I’m adding 12 litres a day of plain water. Time to flush. It’s just that easy.
So if your system is bigger or your not hitting them hard with nutes your mileage may vary. The point is the ppm meter is telling u something.
Changing nutes in a hydro system is easy. There’s a pump in it,use it. Don’t be so lazy.