Therrion
Well-Known Member
I was talking to somebody else, I have a 2400w chilled logic set-up.
Chilled Logic Pucks V3 or Cobs
- Thread starter sctcal50
- Start date
twistedtyrant66
Member
Lol sorry I was trying to agree with ya . I'm still new to this forum and trying to figure out it's reply system.
1000 watt gavitas can be had brand new as cheap as 250.00. I believe paid 320 each for mine. Everybody always saying how led saves money but if your not hitting the same yield your losing money even if your bills are cheaper.
twistedtyrant66
Member
We're you getting a 1000 watt gavita for 250 bucks. A bottom teir no name 1000 watt hps cost 250. If you got a new gavita for 250 I'm assuming it's a fake. Send me a link for one for 250 would ya . And you get better yeild . That's what we're saying . You can get the same yeild of a 650 watt led vs a 1000 watt gavita .
I believe I gave the name of the stores ig when I posted before but if not it's rootstosuccess. They have adds right on their ig. They are not fake they move large volumes which means they can move em at a lower price. It was a bit too far to drive for me but I used the add as bargain chip for my store they couldn't match the price exactly cause they don't move the same volume but mine were 320 a piece. And yes I see all kinda people claiming they can get the same yield from a 600-700 watt LED, but I've yet to see anyone that can pull the same yield per square ft except maybe tent growers. I've seen multiple large grows try high end led lights and end up switching back to de hps. I think led is great for a small personal home grow, or if you have the money to a do double tiered grow because your getting more square ft from the same floor space. But for a traditional over head lighting I don't see any leds that can keep up with a de fixture.
Sorry just looked it must have been another post where I put the name of the store, but check them out they have great prices on lights and mini splits.
nevergoodenuf
Well-Known Member
You are forgetting the 1200+w for the DE HPS and you almost always need an AC (12,000btu portable = 1400+w, or 700-1200watts mini split $$$)
My situation- around 2000 watts of COB leds, no AC needed until I am past 3500w of lighting, even in summer with 100*+F. I only use Hyperfans for control of temp, humidity (8" 75 watts, 6" 35 watts.
Winter, the room uses heat from the dehu, and the fans only come on if past 86*/60rh, so I add CO2 for when the fans don't come on as much.
So don't forget to add the cost of the minispit into that aquation. So now, how do the numbers come out for the 2000+ watts you are running per HPS.
Other advantages are higher room temps with LEDs-
HPS = mid 70*f ( shit load of IR)
LED = low to mid 80*f
My situation- around 2000 watts of COB leds, no AC needed until I am past 3500w of lighting, even in summer with 100*+F. I only use Hyperfans for control of temp, humidity (8" 75 watts, 6" 35 watts.
Winter, the room uses heat from the dehu, and the fans only come on if past 86*/60rh, so I add CO2 for when the fans don't come on as much.
So don't forget to add the cost of the minispit into that aquation. So now, how do the numbers come out for the 2000+ watts you are running per HPS.
Other advantages are higher room temps with LEDs-
HPS = mid 70*f ( shit load of IR)
LED = low to mid 80*f
I'm not convinced yet, not to mention the mini split and lights can be paid for 3-4 times over in one run. I want to grow herb not save electric. Yes I've seen a few growers who claim big numbers from led and some of them I believe. It seems to be easier in tents. But I've yet to see an led that will match a 1kde in output in the same sq ft. But I'll play along and even give you a handicap by saying your at half my wattage with led and you hit the exact same yield. You saved maybe 450 dollars in electric over a cycle. Now back to reality say only hit 90%(still really high yield for half the watts) at that point you didn't save anything you lost money.
nevergoodenuf
Well-Known Member
LEDs are no different on the pay back. I would rather have 5000w worth of light output, than 3000w of light and 2000w of cooling. Both have high startup cost but in the end 2000w of lighting you are missing out on 4+ pounds per run. And how often do you change bulbs? $50-100+ a bulb.
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twistedtyrant66
Member
Just do some of your own research literally type in " why is led.better then HP's and metal halide. " There is tons of research. All the tip growers have switched. All the huge grow ops are switching . The even just changed all our street lamps and parking lot lights in my while city because of how much better they are. 500 watts of led is equal to 1000 watts of hps right now for yeild. You save 500 watts on electricy and all the money on cooling. If your rich and don't care about money , then go buy the best 1000 watt led on the market and triple your yeild. There is a 450 watt full kit by spider that just came out and it's only 280 bucks . It gets 2.7 umols/watt most HP's gets o.8 umols/watt and the most expensive gavita gets like 1.3 umols/watt . It's easy science . The only douche bag that still brags about hps is grow boss . That guy doesn't know shit , except how to treat his clients like garbage. Growmau5 is the real king
Budzbuddha
Well-Known Member
Questions for OP .
To help “ weed “ thru ( pun intentional) the back and forth of light choice arguing.
What’s your budget ?
Plans for heat and ventilation ?
There are various choices that will run “ cooler “ in a sealed box config.
Atrium boards / Quantums . They are flat and can allow you increased ceiling space within box.
Also remote mounting driver ( even to top of box ) can also help keep heat in check. Target at least
300 watts ( minimum ) for that specific grow box size . You will still have dimmer control for plants to run seed to harvest . 3000k / 3500k will a good choice for start to finish.
To help “ weed “ thru ( pun intentional) the back and forth of light choice arguing.
What’s your budget ?
Plans for heat and ventilation ?
There are various choices that will run “ cooler “ in a sealed box config.
Atrium boards / Quantums . They are flat and can allow you increased ceiling space within box.
Also remote mounting driver ( even to top of box ) can also help keep heat in check. Target at least
300 watts ( minimum ) for that specific grow box size . You will still have dimmer control for plants to run seed to harvest . 3000k / 3500k will a good choice for start to finish.
Alright I'm done arguing but your numbers on the de hps are wrong it's 2.1 umols per watt. And nobody not even manufacturers are claiming that a 500 watt fixture replaces a 1k de. And they make some pretty outrageous claims.
twistedtyrant66
Member
I just watched the test . It's 1.38 umols/watt gavitas new led lights may be 2.1 there switching to led now to
twistedtyrant66
Member
There double ended 1000 watt can hit almost 2.1 but that's basically a double filament. And that's only one bulb. You need a hps and a MH for a grow. And Even that proves our point. Gavitas own led beats there own light at 2.6 and that's not even the best on the market
First off we have been talking about the double ended the whole time and it's 2.1umol. And you don't need mh, I do have cmh for my little veg area but when I put them in the bigger room to veg they go right under hps, a lot of people do (either way if you have a veg room it requires a light). Gavitas new led are I believe 2.6 or 2.7 umol per watt. But total umol for the gavita led is 1750 and total umol for the de hps is 2100, so still getting more light and they are recommended for same coverage area. We are junking up this thread. I believe that you believe those numbers are very important just like led growers always have, me not so much. What matters to me is what works best, and other than some more experimental shit like de cmh 1000, I think I've found it for the time being. Happy growing man I'm not saying you can't grow plenty of fire herb with your led, have a good day.
twistedtyrant66
Member
I Tire of your lack of photon knowledge lol.
PrometheanLeaf
Well-Known Member
Where are you getting 2.1 umol from a de? Verticle setups? A 360° bulb, in a horizontal reflector, has so much light loss it hurts my soul a bit.
If you have test results I'd love to review them.
Here is an article by PL lights who make both de and led and is a respected and large agriculture lighting brand.
http://pllight.com/led-or-hps-for-growing-cannabis/
Here is small section for those that don't want to read the whole thing.
The PL Light TopLED R/MB as an example: 320W fixture with PPF of 860 μmol is 2.7 μmol/J (860 / 320 = 2.6875) where the 1000W DE HPS has an output of 2100 μmol is 2.1 μmol/J (2100 / 1000 = 2.1). This is important because I have sat in many presentations, by LED manufacturers, who show how quickly they can hit a good ROI with their LED and use 1.85 μmol/j as their HPS comparison. They’re not lying about this but they are using the old single-ended screw in 1000w HPS lamp in the comparison. These lamps have an output of 1850 μmols at 1000w. But, it is an old technology only in use by small hobby grows these days. I have seen manufacturers use as low as 1.7 μmol/J for HPS which would be the equivalent to the end of life of the old HPS technology.
Anyways start a new thread or something and tag me if want to keep debating I don't like that we have taken over this thread.
http://pllight.com/led-or-hps-for-growing-cannabis/
Here is small section for those that don't want to read the whole thing.
The PL Light TopLED R/MB as an example: 320W fixture with PPF of 860 μmol is 2.7 μmol/J (860 / 320 = 2.6875) where the 1000W DE HPS has an output of 2100 μmol is 2.1 μmol/J (2100 / 1000 = 2.1). This is important because I have sat in many presentations, by LED manufacturers, who show how quickly they can hit a good ROI with their LED and use 1.85 μmol/j as their HPS comparison. They’re not lying about this but they are using the old single-ended screw in 1000w HPS lamp in the comparison. These lamps have an output of 1850 μmols at 1000w. But, it is an old technology only in use by small hobby grows these days. I have seen manufacturers use as low as 1.7 μmol/J for HPS which would be the equivalent to the end of life of the old HPS technology.
Anyways start a new thread or something and tag me if want to keep debating I don't like that we have taken over this thread.
Well considering about every number of yours I've checked that you posted has been wrong I'm not too sure I'm the one lacking in knowledge. Gavita prices was 3 or 4 times higher than they cost, and your hps umol numbers were off. You came back talking about yeah maybe the gavita double ended, well everyone that has a clue knows that when some is saying a gavita 1k it is double ended, gavita doesn't make a single ended 1k fixture(that I'm aware of they do make a se 600). You can chase numbers on a light meter all day if you want too, and I'll chase mine on the scale (cause in the end that's all that matters)