Canadian Western Separation

[Rob Roy]

Funny prohibition against the Nazis worked!

When I say "prohibition doesn't work", I mean when people are disallowed by "authority" a substance or thing that they rightfully are entitled to own. For instance marijuana, alcohol, guns or other physical pieces of property that are deemed verboten, but people still want and will find a way to procure.

I'm curious how you think prohibition against the nazis worked, well not really curious, slightly interested.

 

[Rob Roy]

When he went to prison for raping an 11 year old boy

You are so desperate to beat me, poor thing, you've gone "Hitler".

 

[Rob Roy]

And when have you ever been out of your home town? Never mind state.

I was born on an island in the Pacific and travel the galaxy frequently. When has your mind ever been in a coherent state ?

 

[Rob Roy]

You're the biggest liar on the site though, dip shit.

Well, compared to you, I am no doubt, quite a bit bigger, Peewee.

 

[Rob Roy]

And the resident pedophile wonders why everyone thinks he's a pedo. Good job defeating yourself again, dip shit.

Nice job "not talking to me". Admit it, you've got a crush on me.

 

[MrToad69]

You two care to give a little respect to the rest of this board and take the name calling to your inboxes?

 

[hanimmal]

You two care to give a little respect to the rest of this board and take the name calling to your inboxes?

 

[Rider101]

Rider
You might not realize it, but you're making my point exactly...Canada - East vs West has divergent needs as economic drivers...hence inherent conflict..Think of the boom times for energy you're talking about...Do you know that happens to the Canadian dollar when crude oil is strong? (Im not trying to be a smartass) The Canadian dollar rises due to the increase in Canadas economic worth...and thus the export industry east suffers as a direct consequence..You cant compare the two provinces..There are
3.7 million people in Alberta , while 12+ million people in Ontario..A percentage flux in either market can be radically different..When Oil was high the US to Canadian exchange was pretty much at par..See how much more that means for Americans buying Canadian export
goods?
...and the Liberals spent $5 billion on a pipeline for Alberta? Really? Pretty biased comment don't you think? think the tax revenue generated through tolls paid for itself...not to mention, Is there a chance that much of the money the Liberals were spending is simply tax money being redirected back to where it was made in the first place. All Canadians benefit as a result...
The problem with some of these discussions is...that if people want a decent resolution...People have to be fair in what they say.....no question, there are 2 sides to every story but people need to put themselves in others shoes and acknowledge fair comment.

Right this is about oil and profiting from what is harming us.
As Canada and the rest of the world put a price on carbon oil is going to lose value. Refining bitumen cost way more then light sweet crude and there is enough cheap sweet crude left in the ground to fill our needs for a thousand years. And right again about the Canadian dollar being linked to the price of oil. Boom to bust but unlike "gold" that runs out causing the bust, this time its the black gold that lost its value $150 to $50. Too bad the Canadian dollar is not high so we could do what Trump wants and buy American and not have record low unemployment in Canada eh. Republican Conservative SSDN same shit different nation.

 

[MrToad69]

Right this is about oil and profiting from what is harming us.
As Canada and the rest of the world put a price on carbon oil is going to lose value. Refining bitumen cost way more then light sweet crude and there is enough cheap sweet crude left in the ground to fill our needs for a thousand years. And right again about the Canadian dollar being linked to the price of oil. Boom to bust but unlike "gold" that runs out causing the bust, this time its the black gold that lost its value $150 to $50. Too bad the Canadian dollar is not high so we could do what Trump wants and buy American and not have record low unemployment in Canada eh. Republican Conservative SSDN same shit different nation.

Rider
It really is disappointing that people really don't understand the nature of the situation in Alberta...
Idealism, Propaganda and blatant sabotage...I don't blame you or even fault you for your opinions...
Everyone ask yourself..What would you do without fossil fuel...at least at this point in time?..It's winter here in Canada..How many homes do you think require natural gas to stay warm? During the heat of the summer...how do homes in the Southern States, let alone elsewhere else, operate their air conditioners?
Many homes in Canada use a/c as well..How many cars do you see able to function on solar power? Most of that is generated by natural gas to charge those teslas at home

How about Jane Fonda, as an individual flying around the oilsands shaking her finger..think she took a plane to get her to Canada or did she drive a tesla all that way? How about the fuel pig of a helicopter she flew around in to personally access the situation? How about that 6500 square foot home she lives in? Does she have someone follow her around with a fan during the heat the summer to keep her cool? No question, when you have wealth, you can afford the luxuries and latest in energy efficiencies." , but where does that leave the more economically challenged families to heat or cool their home against the
Elements? How about Al Gore and his hypocritical speeches? See the size if his house and the environmental footprint there? Why werent pipelines protested in the US...The US in the past 5 or so years has hurdled a number of countries and is now one of the top producer in the world...
No question we have to move in the direction to help the environment, but far too many are jumping to conclusions...
Alberta's oilsands...sit at the very surface of the earth..the oil rich sand is literally scraped off the top and processed...So people who blame river contamination often neglect the fact that oil was seeping into the rivers as it is...Remember the Beverly Hills Hillbilly..oil bubbling at the surface? The fact, that it is concentrated in a few deposits, although ugly to look at, creates a critical mass and efficiencies that make its environmental impact significantly less than conventional deposits around the globe..its contained in a small geographic area considering the resource...Think of all the
Digging that has to be done to tie in a conventional well? The world is still continuing to use oil and gas as usual...Some will continue to supply it..Canada halting production is a double whammy both for Canadian's who rely on it as a tax base as well as the world.. while enriching producers who have no environmental conscience..If Canadian energy companies, with higher environmental standards, can produce energy to world countries in a
manner that is the most environmentally friendly, and offer an option to displace supply from the pump n' dump approach in the middle east..doesn't that help the environmental cause at least a bit? Do you know how much a tanker burns to haul fuel half way around the world to the east coast of Canada to supply refineries there? It's mimd boggling!! Look it up..
BTW..Alberta just announced a
$35 million cut to education spending..(100's of teaching jobs to be lost).so while Albertan's suffer and attempt to pay our bills...Quebecer are demanding sunsidized education and child care at Alberta's expense..of the $20 billion coming out of Alberta energy coffers annually..$11-12 billion annual goes directly to Quebec..You think Alberta's rich, but the NDP just ran our province into the ground accumualtimg DEBT of over $70 billion these past 4 years...for 3.6 million people...rich huh??
It really is too bad Alberta Energy didnt do a better job of explaining the situation..

Toad

Much of the wealth that was created through energy in Alberta has evaporated...many Energycompanies trading at less than a fraction of 1% of what they were once worth...representing the retirement of many Albertans..and the federal goverment is chasing others away with its idealistic policies..See the Encana news? See the value of our homes in Calgary today..Down 15- 20% or more these past few years while Toronto and Vancouver continue to sky rocket

 

[UncleBuck]

There it is

“but Al gore!”

stopcrying

 

[MrToad69]

There it is

“but Al gore!”

stopcrying

Well Buck..
Not sure what to say to you...
I guess I kinda saw Alberta as part of the Canadian family..contributing 100's of Billion of dollar to the benefit if all Canadians...and now that thing have gone South...The rest of Canada grins and watches the province crumble..(.heck Quebec's received 51% of ALL transfer payments since the program was implemented..)
Perhaps a similar metaphor...Where two parents raise a child and contribute to their well being, unfortunately when those parents are old, and are now the ones requiring assistance of the child, the child stuffs them in a home with a smirk.

and with an attitude like your's Buck..you wonder why some Albertan's don't feel the
love of being Canadian as they should?

 

[UncleBuck]

Well Buck..
Not sure what to say to you...
I guess I kinda saw Alberta as part of the Canadian family..contributing 100's of Billion of dollar to the benefit if all Canadians...and now that thing have gone South...The rest of Canada grins and watches the province crumble..(.heck Quebec's received 51% of ALL transfer payments since the program was implemented..)
Perhaps a similar metaphor...Where two parents raise a child and contribute to their well being, unfortunately when those parents are old, and are now the ones requiring assistance of the child, the child stuffs them in a home with a smirk.

and with an attitude like your's Buck..you wonder why some Albertan's don't feel the
love of being Canadian as they should?

Learn to code

your dying industry is killing the planet

I don’t like my tax dollars subsidizing shit that kills us. Let’s put all the subsidies that oil hacks get and put it into renewable energy instead. Tip the balance and even the playing field

oil is going the way of coal in a hurry

 

[Skuxx]

Rider
It really is disappointing that people really don't understand the nature of the situation in Alberta...
Idealism, Propaganda and blatant sabotage...I don't blame you or even fault you for your opinions...
Everyone ask yourself..What would you do without fossil fuel...at least at this point in time?..It's winter here in Canada..How many homes do you think require natural gas to stay warm? During the heat of the summer...how do homes in the Southern States, let alone elsewhere else, operate their air conditioners?
Many homes in Canada use a/c as well..How many cars do you see able to function on solar power? Most of that is generated by natural gas to charge those teslas at home

How about Jane Fonda, as an individual flying around the oilsands shaking her finger..think she took a plane to get her to Canada or did she drive a tesla all that way? How about the fuel pig of a helicopter she flew around in to personally access the situation? How about that 6500 square foot home she lives in? Does she have someone follow her around with a fan during the heat the summer to keep her cool? No question, when you have wealth, you can afford the luxuries and latest in energy efficiencies." , but where does that leave the more economically challenged families to heat or cool their home against the
Elements? How about Al Gore and his hypocritical speeches? See the size if his house and the environmental footprint there? Why werent pipelines protested in the US...The US in the past 5 or so years has hurdled a number of countries and is now one of the top producer in the world...
No question we have to move in the direction to help the environment, but far too many are jumping to conclusions...
Alberta's oilsands...sit at the very surface of the earth..the oil rich sand is literally scraped off the top and processed...So people who blame river contamination often neglect the fact that oil was seeping into the rivers as it is...Remember the Beverly Hills Hillbilly..oil bubbling at the surface? The fact, that it is concentrated in a few deposits, although ugly to look at, creates a critical mass and efficiencies that make its environmental impact significantly less than conventional deposits around the globe..its contained in a small geographic area considering the resource...Think of all the
Digging that has to be done to tie in a conventional well? The world is still continuing to use oil and gas as usual...Some will continue to supply it..Canada halting production is a double whammy both for Canadian's who rely on it as a tax base as well as the world.. while enriching producers who have no environmental conscience..If Canadian energy companies, with higher environmental standards, can produce energy to world countries in a
manner that is the most environmentally friendly, and offer an option to displace supply from the pump n' dump approach in the middle east..doesn't that help the environmental cause at least a bit? Do you know how much a tanker burns to haul fuel half way around the world to the east coast of Canada to supply refineries there? It's mimd boggling!! Look it up..
BTW..Alberta just announced a
$35 million cut to education spending..(100's of teaching jobs to be lost).so while Albertan's suffer and attempt to pay our bills...Quebecer are demanding sunsidized education and child care at Alberta's expense..of the $20 billion coming out of Alberta energy coffers annually..$11-12 billion annual goes directly to Quebec..You think Alberta's rich, but the NDP just ran our province into the ground accumualtimg DEBT of over $70 billion these past 4 years...for 3.6 million people...rich huh??
It really is too bad Alberta Energy didnt do a better job of explaining the situation..

Toad

Much of the wealth that was created through energy in Alberta has evaporated...many Energycompanies trading at less than a fraction of 1% of what they were once worth...representing the retirement of many Albertans..and the federal goverment is chasing others away with its idealistic policies..See the Encana news? See the value of our homes in Calgary today..Down 15- 20% or more these past few years while Toronto and Vancouver continue to sky rocket

Daaamn, riveting tale, chap!

 

[MrToad69]

Learn to code

your dying industry is killing the planet

I don’t like my tax dollars subsidizing shit that kills us. Let’s put all the subsidies that oil hacks get and put it into renewable energy instead. Tip the balance and even the playing field

oil is going the way of coal in a hurry

Buck..If you dont drive a vehicle, heat or cool your home with gas...kudos to you...You're one of very few that walk the talk...but forgive me for being more than a litte skeptical in this regard..Besides...you're missing the point of this discussion altogether..
I have no interest in wasting my time with your hypocrisy...

 

[UncleBuck]

Buck..If you dont drive a vehicle, heat or cool your home with gas...kudos to you...You're one of very few that walk the talk...but forgive me for being more than a litte skeptical in this regard..Besides...you're missing the point of this discussion altogether..
I have no interest in wasting my time with your hypocrisy...

The buggy whip industry had the same argument as you at one point

you can look up the history on that and see how well it went

if you can convince me that your industry isn’t killing the planet and making my child’s future unsustainable then go for it. but you’ve pretty much conceded that point already with your “but al gore!”sobbing

 

[MrToad69]

The buggy whip industry had the same argument as you at one point

you can look up the history on that and see how well it went

if you can convince me that your industry isn’t killing the planet and making my child’s future unsustainable then go for it. but you’ve pretty much conceded that point already with your “but al gore!”sobbing

Buck
You and everyone else are the ones burning the fuel...Alberta is merely providing for the needs of Canada...The fact that you haven't got the stones hangin' between your legs to admit that you're just as much a part of the problem as anyone else speaks for itself!

 

[hanimmal]

How about Al Gore and his hypocritical speeches? See the size if his house and the environmental footprint there? Why werent pipelines protested in the US...The US in the past 5 or so years has hurdled a number of countries and is now one of the top producer in the world...

Yeah I am with @UncleBuck on this one, picking out a propaganda email to hit Gore back in 2017 with being somehow the problem is ridiculous.

[!QUOTE]Kreider, June 16: The Gores’ home is certified by the US Green Building Council as a Gold LEED certified home for retrofitted homes. As part of the LEED certification process, they upgraded their windows, lighting, appliances and insulation, among other items in and around the home […] The residence is powered with a geothermal system as well as 33-solar panels. The Gores also participate in the "Green PowerSwitch" program offered by their utility [company].[/QUOTE]

 

[UncleBuck]

Buck
You and everyone else are the ones burning the fuel...Alberta is merely providing for the needs of Canada...The fact that you haven't got the stones hangin' between your legs to admit that you're just as much a part of the problem as anyone else speaks for itself!

“You say the air is polluted by fossil fuels yet still you breathe it! Hypocrite “

 

[MrToad69]

Buck..
Do tou have tour fac

Yeah I am with @UncleBuck on this one, picking out a propaganda email to hit Gore back in 2017 with being somehow the problem is ridiculous.

[!QUOTE]Kreider, June 16: The Gores’ home is certified by the US Green Building Council as a Gold LEED certified home for retrofitted homes. As part of the LEED certification process, they upgraded their windows, lighting, appliances and insulation, among other items in and around the home […] The residence is powered with a geothermal system as well as 33-solar panels. The Gores also participate in the "Green PowerSwitch" program offered by their utility [company].

[/QUOTE]

Yeah I am with @UncleBuck on this one, picking out a propaganda email to hit Gore back in 2017 with being somehow the problem is ridiculous.

[!QUOTE]Kreider, June 16: The Gores’ home is certified by the US Green Building Council as a Gold LEED certified home for retrofitted homes. As part of the LEED certification process, they upgraded their windows, lighting, appliances and insulation, among other items in and around the home […] The residence is powered with a geothermal system as well as 33-solar panels. The Gores also participate in the "Green PowerSwitch" program offered by their utility [company].

[/QUOTE]

Hanimmal.
.
I think you accidentally sent the wrong news clip...Wasn't this the one you meant to send?

This story is no longer available - Washington Times

The Washington Times delivers breaking news and commentary on the issues that affect the future of our nation.

www.washingtontimes.com

Here's the rather modest 7,100 sq foot house Jane and here ex just sold....A modest environmental footprint for 2 people wouldn't you think?

Jane Fonda Beverly Hills Home Sells for $8.5 Million

Actress and activist Jane Fonda gives a tour the modernist Los Angeles house she is selling for $13 million and shares her favorite spaces

people.com

Point is two things: These people are the environmental advocates....yet both seem to advocate more for "do as I say...not as I do"....

Second, which is my point earlier....when you've got millions of dollars, it's easy to hire architects and engineers to make it more efficient..Most cant afford that.

Toad

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Buck
You and everyone else are the ones burning the fuel...Alberta is merely providing for the needs of Canada...The fact that you haven't got the stones hangin' between your legs to admit that you're just as much a part of the problem as anyone else speaks for itself!

Alternatives do not exist yet because of lobbying by the fossil fuel industry who get subsidies and tax breaks that are bought and paid for in the States by bribes. We have not even tried to gain energy independence from fossil fuels yet, as a planet we've barely scratched the surface of it and never would if the energy lobby had its way.

We have no choice about eating either, but healthier choices are available and the government doesn't subsidize fast unhealthy food (there is a scientific way to measure this) restaurants, but should tax them higher through sales tax surcharges. Likewise with oil, there should be a surtax to help with conversion to greener technologies, call it a carbon tax if ya want. Tar sands oil will be left in the ground just like coal is now and Canada has recently discovered vast untapped sources of high quality coal in northern Ontario. You can't put tens of millions of years of biologically sequestered carbon back into the atmosphere in a century or two and expect no ramifications, that's denial of reality.

Global warming is an issue today and will be much more of one into the future, maybe Aberta should pledge to take in 10 or 20 million people from Bangladesh, or the millions more from numerous island nations and coastal areas around the world who will be flooded. Perhaps a refugee tax in the form of immigration would be more acceptable than a carbon tax for Alberta? Or perhaps as long as they can they can drive a half ton truck that they need a step ladder to get up into, fuck the planet and the brown folks can just go drown in the rising ocean. $150K a year tends to blind most people to reality and their priorities are skewed towards their wallet and against the welfare of others, including their own kids and grandkids. Money and profit warp our judgement, it takes character to resist the strong pull of greed when it's conflated with basic need. Global warming is reality, denying it or the roll of tar sands oil in it, is denying reality and that is something those who support Donald Trump do, he thinks global warming is a hoax and so do his fans.

You can have a civil discussion as long as you don't deny reality, that is an insult to those who you are having a discussion with, facts must be agreed upon for honest civil discussion to proceed. Global climate change is a fact and a threat to those who have children and grandchildren, or care about the future of humanity. The economic well being of Alberta is of no consequence by comparison, neither was the economic well being of Cape Breton Island where I live and at the turn of the twentieth century it was the king of coal and we've still got lot's here too, buried in the ground. After the second world war it was an economic imperative to convert to oil and then became an environmental one later, this time the order will be reversed because of the need and the overwhelming evidence of man made climate change.