Bagseed Experiment

[Mitchician]

Hmm maybe 6 inches is still a bit close, were they that far from the light when they looked really happy after the transplant?
They're getting hungry in the top half only because the bottom half isn't getting nearly as much light intensity so all those leaves are just hanging out not really doing anything until they get more light. The only thing you can do to minimise the stretch without training them or giving them a lot more side lighting is to put them in massive pots so they can really spread their roots out which will encourage branch growth and make the plant use more energy on root growth for a while instead of shoot growth. I strongly recommend learning how to train on these plants, that is what they should be for, to teach yourself what is and isn't possible so you have less chance of wrecking bought seed. Don't worry about all the time they took to get that big, your new seeds when put into a better environment will overtake those in a month, and you really don't wanna hesitate when you have to train those ones, so research some training methods and get experimenting on the ones you have now is paramount in my advice.

 

[Seed of Memory]

Hmm maybe 6 inches is still a bit close, were they that far from the light when they looked really happy after the transplant?
They're getting hungry in the top half only because the bottom half isn't getting nearly as much light intensity so all those leaves are just hanging out not really doing anything until they get more light. The only thing you can do to minimise the stretch without training them or giving them a lot more side lighting is to put them in massive pots so they can really spread their roots out which will encourage branch growth and make the plant use more energy on root growth for a while instead of shoot growth. I strongly recommend learning how to train on these plants, that is what they should be for, to teach yourself what is and isn't possible so you have less chance of wrecking bought seed. Don't worry about all the time they took to get that big, your new seeds when put into a better environment will overtake those in a month, and you really don't wanna hesitate when you have to train those ones, so research some training methods and get experimenting on the ones you have now is paramount in my advice.

My fear of ruining them is paralyzing though i know I need to do it. This is the batch i want to experiment with and my good seeds will be here soon. Now though my new equipment won't be in until Tuesday so that kind of sucks. Interestingly enough, the lights were about an inch from the top when I took the pics of it looking so healthy. That light puts off almost no heat at all.

 

[Seed of Memory]

Also @Mitchician : What would be the best way to train them as one is already distorted and the other isn't branchy at all and just grows straight up.

 

[Mitchician]

They're a lot tougher than we think...



9 days later...




...and about 4 weeks after that...


This was one of my first few plants, a clone from one of my first 3 seeds that I successfully germinated. I started with a few 23ish watt cfl's (and a cardboard box like you lol), looking back on it now I think it's actually kinda dodgy and shouldn't really be condoned.
This is also an example of not NEEDING to bloom at any size in particular, but when you do it this small, the returns are really so pitiful the yields aren't really the goal, it's about gaining experience by observing and making assumptions then testing something to see if your assumption is correct. Over time you develop intuition by making good guesses based on what has worked for you in the past. All the while you're reading and observing other people and what works for them then forming your theories on why those methods work and try a modified method of what they did to test your 'hypothesis' I think they call it.. Sorry I'm just rambling lol I do that a lot.

Anyway that's what I think you need to do to your plants, let me know if you need any more help but basically you just pick the point where you think the bent over bit will be level with the lowest branches that you intend to leave on the plant when the top bit is horizontal, and tie or weigh the top down on the second or third day when it starts straightening itself back out...





If you don't hold it down it will almost straighten itself right out in a few weeks. When you go to bend the top over, think about which way you want the top to flop over, then just pretend there's a bug that needs squishing right at the point of the stem where you want it to bend, then squish it, gradually applying pressure until you feel the stem kind of "pop". Don't use your thumb nail unless you really have to. You just want to soften the stem enough so it will bend instead of snap. If the part you picked is too woody it will feel like a skewer, that part will probably be too stiff and could snap so just go up a bit further until it's more pliable.
After you've felt it pop, ideally the weight of the top will flop itself over, but you kind of want to guide it and support it the first few times you do it, until you get a feel for it. Sometimes the outside of the stalk will start to tear open, and this okay to a point, but ideally you don't want this to happen. To stop this you can lightly push downwards on the elbow while you're bending it over, so it kind of bunches up the inside of the elbow instead of splitting the outside if you know what I mean. Sometimes the stalk is already too thick and you just can't avoid it, but as you can see the plants still survive..



If you're still scared, maybe your husband would like to read my impromptu tutorial and give it a go... Best of luck!

 

[Seed of Memory]

They're a lot tougher than we think...

View attachment 4425853

If you're still scared, maybe your husband would like to read my impromptu tutorial and give it a go... Best of luck!

So, those fan leaves on the left look huge! I don't know if I can post a photo in a reply but if I can't I will post immediately after.

Anyway, I did what you said. Well, i tried. My best plant would bend after 6 inches of height and my first attempt just looked scary. I also topped it after the 5th node hoping it will help develop colas. Excuse my cat in the photo. He was so curious about what was in our little room.

I am a bit disappointed that my stuff won't arrive until Tuesday but seeds may not be here for 2 more weeks so not a huge deal. My first attempt is up top, where i have left it is the last 2 pictures.

 

[Mitchician]

lol that's not actually what I said to do... the first 2 photos I'm not sure what that is lol but it just so happens that what you did in the last 2 is referred to as "low stress training" or "LST" for short, which is actually better and less risky than supercropping anyway.
Good job. That's what you want to do from a much earlier stage on your next plants.
On a side note though, beautiful cat, but I hear it's bad practice to let your pets around your grow space because they can bring in pests and stuff but I don't have to worry about that so I wouldn't know personally. Also the structure of your plants is really screaming male now and I think you need to just flip them or do something to make them show sex because the longer you wait the more disappointed you'll be if they are both male.

 

[Seed of Memory]

lol that's not actually what I said to do... the first 2 photos I'm not sure what that is lol but it just so happens that what you did in the last 2 is referred to as "low stress training" or "LST" for short, which is actually better and less risky than supercropping anyway.
Good job. That's what you want to do from a much earlier stage on your next plants.
On a side note though, beautiful cat, but I hear it's bad practice to let your pets around your grow space because they can bring in pests and stuff but I don't have to worry about that so I wouldn't know personally. Also the structure of your plants is really screaming male now and I think you need to just flip them or do something to make them show sex because the longer you wait the more disappointed you'll be if they are both male.

What I meant for what you said to do was learn how to train. Lol. I do want to make some clarifications though. My cat is indoor. He has never been outside except for when we moved. I chased him away though. I don't know if there is any toxicity for cats in the fans and he is my baby. I've done a lot of regular gardening and I've learned it is a pain in the ass to try to keep him from smelling my plants when I bring them in before planting. He took advantage of me trying to take a picture.

And my current grow space is not my downstairs bathroom. It is just easier to get pictures in the bathroom. The room I'm using is under my stairs and the entry door is in that bathroom. Until he learns to turn a door knob it is a Debo free area. It isn't super spacious for pics outside of the LED lights so I lug them out for that. And it was easier to try the training. Lol. It looked pretty horrendous huh? Lmao. I thought so which is why I swapped it.

So the lankiness is a male trait? I ordered a light timer with my tent and all that so I'll just swap them to a 12-12 then.

Questions about germination though. I used the paper towel method both times. The first time I had a 100% pop rate. The second only 1 out of 10 popped and it didn't even break the soil. I did the exact same process both times. Literally. Same brand paper towels. Same closed container. Same place in the cabinet. Same gallon of distilled water. And when the one that sprouted didn't break soil I got worried I screwed something up somehow. It had a great tap root.

 

[Birdrussell]

I'm growing a bag seed right now. It's been lots of fun and thrown me head first back into growing. Here goes my girl as of today.



I can't believe that's one plant. It's in flower now but I think I might have started that too soon. Oh well, I've got a hydroponics set up now and a bunch of autoflowers popping currently.

 

[Seed of Memory]

I'm growing a bag seed right now. It's been lots of fun and thrown me head first back into growing. Here goes my girl as of today.

View attachment 4425872

I can't believe that's one plant. It's in flower now but I think I might have started that too soon. Oh well, I've got a hydroponics set up now and a bunch of autoflowers popping currently.

She looks beautiful. It seems mine are probably dudes and that is going to be disappointing. And we all have our learning curves. I feel like everything I'm doing right now is a curve. I think I'm doing well and BAM! Something else. Lol. Is yours indoors?

 

[Birdrussell]

Yes it's an indoor grow. I would recommend getting a book on growing cannabis. Ed Rosenthal wrote the one called growing marijuana. I bought the book, read it twice, then I read a whole bunch more. "Big buds small spaces," a book by Jorge Cervantes I don't recall the name. You're in a grow forum, that's a good start too. Also watch you tube videos. Learn everything you can. You'll do brilliantly I'm certain.

 

[Seed of Memory]

Yes it's an indoor grow. I would recommend getting a book on growing cannabis. Ed Rosenthal wrote the one called growing marijuana. I bought the book, read it twice, then I read a whole bunch more. "Big buds small spaces," a book by Jorge Cervantes I don't recall the name. You're in a grow forum, that's a good start too. Also watch you tube videos. Learn everything you can. You'll do brilliantly I'm certain.

I am a serious reader. It is one of life's greatest pleasures for me. So I will look those books up. Thank you for the suggestions. I've joined 2 forums, hit up YouTube, and read blogs so far. Asking for advice on the forums has been most helpful though.

 

[Mitchician]

Debo haha great name... not sure about the seed problem, could be that they're starting to get too old maybe, what were the temps like in the cabinet? Are you doing a 12 hour seed soak before the paper towels? Sometimes seed cases are too fused together and the water literally can't penetrate the shell so the seed doesn't even know you're trying to germinate it then you end up throwing out perfectly good seeds.. I like to squeeze the seams and try pop them manually with various methods if this happens, but it can be very hit or miss so I wouldn't recommend it if you're not good at extremely precise procedures or willing to lose a few seeds in the process. Also look up "scarification experiment" that might yield some good knowledge. Seen a good video on some beans once.

 

[Seed of Memory]

Debo haha great name... not sure about the seed problem, could be that they're starting to get too old maybe, what were the temps like in the cabinet? Are you doing a 12 hour seed soak before the paper towels? Sometimes seed cases are too fused together and the water literally can't penetrate the shell so the seed doesn't even know you're trying to germinate it then you end up throwing out perfectly good seeds.. I like to squeeze the seams and try pop them manually with various methods if this happens, but it can be very hit or miss so I wouldn't recommend it if you're not good at extremely precise procedures or willing to lose a few seeds in the process. Also look up "scarification experiment" that might yield some good knowledge. Seen a good video on some beans once.

Yeah, his full name is Diablo but when my husband and I moved in together he shortener it to Debo cause he debos everything. And I mean every thing. You have it and he wants it. Being almost 30lbs he also almost always gets it.

And I don't soak the seeds. The longest held one we had was maybe 4 months old but I can't say for sure how old the bud was. Seemed fresh but storage can extend shelf life as we all know. I'll try soaking first when mine come in.

Scarification like canna lily seeds? They are rare to grow from seed due to the difficult germination process but I like to propagate from my main plant so I use them. You have to scrape the surface of the seed. On those I have used sand paper and cuts with a razor blade. Mind you, they are at least 10× the size of a cannabis seed.

The cabinet is around 73 degrees. I kept a thermometer from work in there to check it. Kept the towels moist but not soaked.

 

[Birdrussell]

I am a serious reader. It is one of life's greatest pleasures for me. So I will look those books up. Thank you for the suggestions. I've joined 2 forums, hit up YouTube, and read blogs so far. Asking for advice on the forums has been most helpful though.

That's how you science. Ask questions, then find answers. I'm glad you enjoy reading. If you want a little more on the finer details of nutrient absorption and the rhizosphere I'd recommend "teaming with nutrients," "teaming with fungi," and other books that have been written by that author. I read 3, of the set. They discusses the microbiology of the soil and how that interacts with plants. Increadibly fascinating and well written. You don't need a degree to understand what the writer is talking about either. Those books put me on my current course of study at university actually.

 

[Mitchician]

hmm everything sounds good not sure what it could be, maybe just good old fashioned bad luck. 30 lbs that sounds huge!
I wasn't aware that canna lily required scarification too but yes the general principle is the same, I was only referring to the sandpaper method as the blade sounds a bit dodgy for such a small seed. I have used my finger nails, an adjustable wrench and a miniature vice to gradually apply pressure to the seams until they pop, with varying success. I wouldn't recommend doing this unless they haven't popped in the paper towel though. Some people say not to even bother with any of that crap and just plant them in a pot and wait, and that method is becoming increasingly enticing to me. In fact I have a few right now popping up from using that method but to be fair these seeds literally just came off some freshly harvested bud.

 

[Seed of Memory]

hmm everything sounds good not sure what it could be, maybe just good old fashioned bad luck. 30 lbs that sounds huge!
I wasn't aware that canna lily required scarification too but yes the general principle is the same, I was only referring to the sandpaper method as the blade sounds a bit dodgy for such a small seed. I have used my finger nails, an adjustable wrench and a miniature vice to gradually apply pressure to the seams until they pop, with varying success. I wouldn't recommend doing this unless they haven't popped in the paper towel though. Some people say not to even bother with any of that crap and just plant them in a pot and wait, and that method is becoming increasingly enticing to me. In fact I have a few right now popping up from using that method but to be fair these seeds literally just came off some freshly harvested bud.

He is huge. I'm what you would consider a petite female and when I pick him up you can't see anything but my legs and part of my head.

The seeds you put straight in soil, did you soak them? And how far down in the soil did you put them?

And I wasn't either until I started doing research. It is more properly spread by separating the root ball.

 

[Mitchician]

No I didn't think they needed it because they're so fresh but they're taking a few days to come up so I'm starting to think they did need it..
For my depth gauge I just got a pencil and poked the sharpened end in until it got to the paint, then placed the seeds in the holes pointy end up.
There's much debate over which way up to plant seeds and I used to plant them pointed down because the root comes out that end, but I kept having trouble with cases getting stuck so I did some research and ended up being convinced that tap roots of this type of seed naturally want to make a u-turn as soon as they get out of the shell, then drag the shell backwards up the soil, so the edges of the shell get caught on something on the way up, assisting in removal. This made a lot of sense to me but I never actually tried it because I just kept popping my seeds in paper towels, which kind of forces you to plant the seed whichever way the root is pointing.

 

[Seed of Memory]

No I didn't think they needed it because they're so fresh but they're taking a few days to come up so I'm starting to think they did need it..
For my depth gauge I just got a pencil and poked the sharpened end in until it got to the paint, then placed the seeds in the holes pointy end up.
There's much debate over which way up to plant seeds and I used to plant them pointed down because the root comes out that end, but I kept having trouble with cases getting stuck so I did some research and ended up being convinced that tap roots of this type of seed naturally want to make a u-turn as soon as they get out of the shell, then drag the shell backwards up the soil, so the edges of the shell get caught on something on the way up, assisting in removal. This made a lot of sense to me but I never actually tried it because I just kept popping my seeds in paper towels, which kind of forces you to plant the seed whichever way the root is pointing.

Let me know how they go then. I want to do everything I can to get some viable plants going. I will let you know when I swap my light cycle to see if they are the right sex.

 

[Seed of Memory]

Next day update: As always, plants turn towards the light and my newly topped plant is no exception. It has curled itself back up and is happily soaking up some light. Still a bit on the too light side up top for both plants but I'm hoping the food that will be here in 2 days will help with that. I'm also going to be forcing it into flower too early to see if they are male or female before my good seeds come in.

Strain wise on the new ones that I'll be popping are Kryptonite, Skunk XL, White OG Kush, and White Widow. Now I just have to pick 3 to start because anything more won't fit. It may even be 2 at a time. I want to make sure there is room for a substantial grow.

 

[Seed of Memory]

The day is finally here! Finally got my tent setup going and my new lights up. Thank god my husband loves dismantling and setting shit up. It seemed easy enough to put the tent together but that was the most excited he has been since I've started this process and he smokes way more bud than I do.

Anyway. Gave them their first little spot of fertilizer. Quarter strength of Fox Farm Big Bloom. I hope it was enough. My new light is definitely stronger than my old one.

We checked the tent for light leakage and only found 1 small spot where the cords run in to the tent. I've pulled it tight but still a bit of light. Not sure what to do to block that up.

Also set my timer but I'm not sure I did it correctly. The lights should be off now but they are still on. I'm thinking I may have gotten it backwards.