THC, CBD, Terpene test results – UVA vs UVB vs none
- Thread starter Prawn Connery
- Start date
hybridway2
Amare Shill
Cant we all add UV & IR to have Horticultural spectrums.
Humple
Well-Known Member
I wholeheartedly agree!
Humple
Well-Known Member
That got a chuckle out of me, I must admit.
hybridway2
Amare Shill
Seriously though.
Led companies have added ir since the beginning. Hps (30 yr standard) has a bunch.
Sun has more.
Almost every led company excluding the all white ones who are just starting to add reds. As well as The knock-offs of said white companies.
Which believe it or not are the Newbs to led manufacturing, sales, & growth response from leds because white is mainly all they know till now. Better than burple for sure.
Many are very happy with their results, understandably. Not knocking, only saying room for improvement & its coming as we see here.
Fluence should have it based on all their previous so called scientific studies they claim to have done.
But again, when your main concern is Umol/j on a 400-700nm par meter, IR or UV is the last thing you want to believe works to our advantage. Aside from "McCree Efficiency" losses, the IR & UV diodes cost allot, are hotter (shorter efficacy) & less efficient electrically. Separate channels on some increases costs more.
So there's your reasons why others have maybe lead you to believe it is not needed or even wanted after yrs & yrs of studies, grows, evidence & led companies adding it when it was a disservice to their par #'s.
Its not much expense & i vouch for it. Try it, if you think I'm wrong ill buy your IR stick off you for what you paid.
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Bignutes
Well-Known Member
If it's more like the suns spectrum it is good for the plant, it's evolved over millennia and we are arguing about human induced bias. It's a bit funny to see people say that adding uv and ir is inconclusive.......get out of the dark, go outside and check on the production of your outdoor plants and that will tell you all you need to know. What the op did is not exact, this is true but doing his best with what he has and if you've got any sort of herd mentality I could see why his results would be challenging to understand, after all isn't the world flat????
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Grow Lights Australia
Well-Known Member
Our definition of a "balanced" spectrum is just that: a complete spectrum that has no appreciable gaps from at least 400-700nm, which is obviously the "official" PAR range, but preferably up to 780nm or so to include Far Red. Most CRI80 white phosphor LEDs have little to no output below 440nm. We think the 400-430 range is very important as it coincides with photosynthetic (chlorophyll A) and photoreceptor (cryptochrome and Pfr) absorption peaks. It also appears to help the absorbance of 730nm Far Red. There appears to be a lot going on in this area that traditional LEDs don't cover.
I think a "balanced" spectrum should also include more cyan, which is nearly always in very low ratios for most LEDs. Again, cyan coincides with phototropin peaks, but hardly any white phosphor LEDs have any appreciable levels of cyan. CRI70 is actually the worst for this, but many LED makers mix it with 630 and 660 monos to increase efficiency.
We've all seen similar graphs to these, and they all have one thing in common: a lack of cyan (compare the CRI70 and CRI90 5700K)
Sunlight doesn't have the same gap, so by "balanced" we really mean a bit closer to full-spectrum sunlight. We know sunlight changes at different times of day, seasons, altitude and latitudes, but it still remains full spectrum. I know the term "balanced" will always be open to interpretation but rightly or wrongly that's what we mean by it.
Grow Lights Australia
Well-Known Member
I posted this in another thread. Apart from the missing 400-430nm, this is what I think is a good example of a "balanced" spectrum. There are no gaps, and the spectral levels are fairly "balanced". Of course you would expect me to say that but I'm sure we can all agree this CRI95 LED is much closer to sunlight than many other LEDs.
Rocket Soul
Well-Known Member
The chloro peaks and macree arent the only spectrums that matter in getting a balanced spectrum. Have a look at the top graph, it details the reaction of the stomata to different wave lengths. Blue and violet, especially from 420-440, opens the stomata very well. The "calmag" problems and "led-deficiencies" of so many led grows seem entirely transpiration related to me. This might be the reason that the plants in or_gros tests was able to take such enormous amounts of light (+1500 par at times); great transpiration.
The second graph explained to me why our led vegg was so shitty: low light intensity with only a little blue (3000k) coupled with way to high co2 hhad our stomatas firmly shut, as increasing co2 makes the stomata close. Later on in flower with higher par it all went away.
ChiefRunningPhist
Well-Known Member
I think the argument was made that it caused too much transpiration. Not that it wasn't having enough. I believe that's what sparked the whole VPD debate if I remember.
ChiefRunningPhist
Well-Known Member
I'm not refuting the benefits of UV and FR, I just don't think the tests provided were controlling for anything. There wasn't any FR measurement that I've been made aware of, there wasn't any UV measurement that I've been made aware of, so on top of the supplementary WV's not being calculated or measured to match, the base SPDs were not the same as all the lights used different and multiple PC chips from different manufacturers. I've yet to see the other rooms and there was some ambiguity with the numbers. I honestly don't know what to take away from the test results because I'm not certain of the test conditions which were being compared. I personally think it's pre-mature to make the assertion, based on this series of grows, that UVA is just as good as UVB when the actual SPDs of the setups being compared were unknown.
ChiefRunningPhist
Well-Known Member
That's pretty good, perhaps look into the 3030 Marubeni 5000K if you're not already familiar.I posted this in another thread. Apart from the missing 400-430nm, this is what I think is a good example of a "balanced" spectrum. There are no gaps, and the spectral levels are fairly "balanced". Of course you would expect me to say that but I'm sure we can all agree this CRI95 LED is much closer to sunlight than many other LEDs.
Prawn Connery
Well-Known Member
I don't know if you saw that grow, but there was a lot of info in it. It was 85 fucking pages long! Which is why it's just taken me ages to find all these spectographs, but they were in there. These are all at fairly even umol/j EDIT: I don't think those wattages included the supplemental lighting, which makes sense.
Also, I don't know why Or_Gro didn't include any spectrographs of the other tents with the UV running, I think maybe because his Sekonic doesn't read UV so he probably figured it didn't mater, but I've included another reading at the bottom which is combined High Red boards with the same Arcadia 6% UVB 30% UVA lamps that Or_Gro used. You can see in the last spectograph that the UV component hardly registers on my Lighting Passport which has a similar range to the Sekonic.
This last reading is @Frank Cannon's room, which is similar to Or_Gro's, except Frank has High Lights and Arcadia 6/30% UVB/A lamps and Or_Grow had QB228s and QB96s with his Arcadias and did not run any UV in his High Light UV board tent.
Prawn Connery
Well-Known Member
Here's how Or_Gro recorded the Arcadia bulbs with the other lights off. Looks like the Sekonic cuts off around 395-400nm
cobshopgrow
Well-Known Member
thats a massive discussion here! nice read.
may got something wrong, but regarding what a Sekonic can measure i can help.
he hardly register 365nm leds, but have no problem to measure down to 380nm itself.
may got something wrong, but regarding what a Sekonic can measure i can help.
he hardly register 365nm leds, but have no problem to measure down to 380nm itself.
hybridway2
Amare Shill
All i have wanted in my spectrum for a few yrs now that is not present is 380-450nm.
As the Australian said (sorry forgot your real name) there's allot going on there. 420 has always spiked my interest. 450 + 470nm has been a factor in purps & bag appeal.
I have been saying for a few yrs now that it is easier for me to grow under higher K temps.
@Rocket Soul 's above graph may be showing exactly why that is.
Plain Cobs & Qb's at 3k or lower is no easy flower for me.
I believe UVA can replace UVB in the garden for now. Until we have better knowledge of how to use it. 450 + 470nm has done a great job at increasing terps, colors & appeal over my lower K-Temp white leds. Could swear higher thc then my HPS bud was. But never did a test other then smoke & service reviews. Literally label same strains under different lighting, color coded with minor spelling change. Then take note of what label color/marking, strain they prefer. Hence telling me the lighting they prefer to smoke buds from under. Was writing led or hps at first.
My understanding is that even if UVB is used at low light levels it can be considered useless for thc increases if not applied properly. Contradictory to what many believe due to the evolution of our plants under the sun. Which i understand but as we all know, outdoor weed is just not as good. Maybe because of the commercial production of it but i feel it is from prolonged exposure to UVB, aside from elements too.
My Deep research (that's right,No links) & tons of experience experimenting with UVB (yeah right) shows that it is best to use it on a timer, allowing the plant random or controlled bursts. This theory someone will prove for me soon. Is that the plant builds up a resistence to the UVB if it is on all day, therefore rendering it useless for increasing thc production. That does not mean it will not work Synergistically with the rest of the full spectrum to create more desirable or plant responses as long as there is a small enough amount being applied that the plant can withstand 12 or 18hrs of it.
So, in order to increase your THC/Cannabinoids using UVB you would want to put it in a timer & adjust that time accordingly based on output or DLI.
Furthermore, to answer previous questions from maybe another thread, UVB is Not worth the Diode addition to a manufactured Grow-Light yet though unfortunately. Its not feasible. DIY is another story. The LG/UVB Diodes would require a different drive current then the rest of the light adding expense, would need its own separate oversized/active heat sinks to last over 3 yrs. Before 20% sets in (projected).
Then you would have to hope the grower uses it properly. So, its a Nay for now.
Australian, have you seen other whites that include 380-450nm? Last yr. I remember seeing at least x3 or x4. Some of which had quite a bit more below 450 then the Optisolis's & one had a chunk from 380-410 more then the others. Wish i remembered the names. Optisolis's were of the highest electrical efficiency amongst them though.
So your boards are a Broad Red 35kish 90cri Nichias with interweaving strips of 5k Optisolis's? Makes a Highlight Board?
Sorry if i missed that. Sure its old info.
I dig these. Didn't i see something about it not being an extra fee to send to the US of A? Maybe i could get some for a 4x4 before this next run in about 10-14 days?
Sound possible if i order now?
@Grow Lights Australia, am i blocked or something? Can't @ you? Hu!!!!.
Holla!
As the Australian said (sorry forgot your real name) there's allot going on there. 420 has always spiked my interest. 450 + 470nm has been a factor in purps & bag appeal.
I have been saying for a few yrs now that it is easier for me to grow under higher K temps.
@Rocket Soul 's above graph may be showing exactly why that is.
Plain Cobs & Qb's at 3k or lower is no easy flower for me.
I believe UVA can replace UVB in the garden for now. Until we have better knowledge of how to use it. 450 + 470nm has done a great job at increasing terps, colors & appeal over my lower K-Temp white leds. Could swear higher thc then my HPS bud was. But never did a test other then smoke & service reviews. Literally label same strains under different lighting, color coded with minor spelling change. Then take note of what label color/marking, strain they prefer. Hence telling me the lighting they prefer to smoke buds from under. Was writing led or hps at first.
My understanding is that even if UVB is used at low light levels it can be considered useless for thc increases if not applied properly. Contradictory to what many believe due to the evolution of our plants under the sun. Which i understand but as we all know, outdoor weed is just not as good. Maybe because of the commercial production of it but i feel it is from prolonged exposure to UVB, aside from elements too.
My Deep research (that's right,No links) & tons of experience experimenting with UVB (yeah right) shows that it is best to use it on a timer, allowing the plant random or controlled bursts. This theory someone will prove for me soon. Is that the plant builds up a resistence to the UVB if it is on all day, therefore rendering it useless for increasing thc production. That does not mean it will not work Synergistically with the rest of the full spectrum to create more desirable or plant responses as long as there is a small enough amount being applied that the plant can withstand 12 or 18hrs of it.
So, in order to increase your THC/Cannabinoids using UVB you would want to put it in a timer & adjust that time accordingly based on output or DLI.
Furthermore, to answer previous questions from maybe another thread, UVB is Not worth the Diode addition to a manufactured Grow-Light yet though unfortunately. Its not feasible. DIY is another story. The LG/UVB Diodes would require a different drive current then the rest of the light adding expense, would need its own separate oversized/active heat sinks to last over 3 yrs. Before 20% sets in (projected).
Then you would have to hope the grower uses it properly. So, its a Nay for now.
Australian, have you seen other whites that include 380-450nm? Last yr. I remember seeing at least x3 or x4. Some of which had quite a bit more below 450 then the Optisolis's & one had a chunk from 380-410 more then the others. Wish i remembered the names. Optisolis's were of the highest electrical efficiency amongst them though.
So your boards are a Broad Red 35kish 90cri Nichias with interweaving strips of 5k Optisolis's? Makes a Highlight Board?
Sorry if i missed that. Sure its old info.
I dig these. Didn't i see something about it not being an extra fee to send to the US of A? Maybe i could get some for a 4x4 before this next run in about 10-14 days?
Sound possible if i order now?
@Grow Lights Australia, am i blocked or something? Can't @ you? Hu!!!!.
Holla!
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hybridway2
Amare Shill
Right! RandomBlame had a way of communicating, making everything understandable whilest not offending others. Something I'm terrible at.
Again! Miss that Dude!
Warpedpassage
Well-Known Member
Very cool! Whats causing the 380 spike? Uv fluro or led?
cobshopgrow
Well-Known Member
thats a 7 wall watt 365nm and 390-400nm leds (12 each) causing this.
not saying this is the ideal spectrum or anything.
not saying this is the ideal spectrum or anything.