THC, CBD, Terpene test results – UVA vs UVB vs none

[Humple]

Our definition of a "balanced" spectrum is just that: a complete spectrum that has no appreciable gaps from at least 400-700nm, which is obviously the "official" PAR range, but preferably up to 780nm or so to include Far Red. Most CRI80 white phosphor LEDs have little to no output below 440nm. We think the 400-430 range is very important as it coincides with photosynthetic (chlorophyll A) and photoreceptor (cryptochrome and Pfr) absorption peaks. It also appears to help the absorbance of 730nm Far Red. There appears to be a lot going on in this area that traditional LEDs don't cover.

View attachment 4484690

I think a "balanced" spectrum should also include more cyan, which is nearly always in very low ratios for most LEDs. Again, cyan coincides with phototropin peaks, but hardly any white phosphor LEDs have any appreciable levels of cyan. CRI70 is actually the worst for this, but many LED makers mix it with 630 and 660 monos to increase efficiency.

We've all seen similar graphs to these, and they all have one thing in common: a lack of cyan (compare the CRI70 and CRI90 5700K)
View attachment 4484698

Sunlight doesn't have the same gap, so by "balanced" we really mean a bit closer to full-spectrum sunlight. We know sunlight changes at different times of day, seasons, altitude and latitudes, but it still remains full spectrum. I know the term "balanced" will always be open to interpretation but rightly or wrongly that's what we mean by it.

View attachment 4484710

Excellent response! And thank you for taking the time to articulate what you consider to be a balanced spectrum. As you said, that term is open to interpretation, and different manufacturers can have very different ideas of what the best "balance" is for growing cannabis, so when people start using that term, I think it's appropriate to clarify what is meant... So thanks again!

 

[Humple]

All i have wanted in my spectrum for a few yrs now that is not present is 380-450nm.
As the Australian said (sorry forgot your real name) there's allot going on there. 420 has always spiked my interest. 450 + 470nm has been a factor in purps & bag appeal.
I have been saying for a few yrs now that it is easier for me to grow under higher K temps.
@Rocket Soul 's above graph may be showing exactly why that is.
Plain Cobs & Qb's at 3k or lower is no easy flower for me.
I believe UVA can replace UVB in the garden for now. Until we have better knowledge of how to use it. 450 + 470nm has done a great job at increasing terps, colors & appeal over my lower K-Temp white leds. Could swear higher thc then my HPS bud was. But never did a test other then smoke & service reviews. Literally label same strains under different lighting, color coded with minor spelling change. Then take note of what label color/marking, strain they prefer. Hence telling me the lighting they prefer to smoke buds from under. Was writing led or hps at first.
My understanding is that even if UVB is used at low light levels it can be considered useless for thc increases if not applied properly. Contradictory to what many believe due to the evolution of our plants under the sun. Which i understand but as we all know, outdoor weed is just not as good. Maybe because of the commercial production of it but i feel it is from prolonged exposure to UVB, aside from elements too.
My Deep research (that's right,No links) & tons of experience experimenting with UVB (yeah right) shows that it is best to use it on a timer, allowing the plant random or controlled bursts. This theory someone will prove for me soon. Is that the plant builds up a resistence to the UVB if it is on all day, therefore rendering it useless for increasing thc production. That does not mean it will not work Synergistically with the rest of the full spectrum to create more desirable or plant responses as long as there is a small enough amount being applied that the plant can withstand 12 or 18hrs of it.
So, in order to increase your THC/Cannabinoids using UVB you would want to put it in a timer & adjust that time accordingly based on output or DLI.
Furthermore, to answer previous questions from maybe another thread, UVB is Not worth the Diode addition to a manufactured Grow-Light yet though unfortunately. Its not feasible. DIY is another story. The LG/UVB Diodes would require a different drive current then the rest of the light adding expense, would need its own separate oversized/active heat sinks to last over 3 yrs. Before 20% sets in (projected).
Then you would have to hope the grower uses it properly. So, its a Nay for now.
Australian, have you seen other whites that include 380-450nm? Last yr. I remember seeing at least x3 or x4. Some of which had quite a bit more below 450 then the Optisolis's & one had a chunk from 380-410 more then the others. Wish i remembered the names. Optisolis's were of the highest electrical efficiency amongst them though.

So your boards are a Broad Red 35kish 90cri Nichias with interweaving strips of 5k Optisolis's? Makes a Highlight Board?
Sorry if i missed that. Sure its old info.

I dig these. Didn't i see something about it not being an extra fee to send to the US of A? Maybe i could get some for a 4x4 before this next run in about 10-14 days?
Sound possible if i order now?
@Grow Lights Australia, am i blocked or something? Can't @ you? Hu!!!!.
Holla!

You hit on something important for the question of "balance": GLA feels that balance is achieved by matching - as closely as possible - full-spectrum sunlight, while you feel that it contains too much UVB. On the one hand, using the sun as the baseline for the concept of a balanced spectrum makes perfect sense, however, there are arguments to be made that we can improve on that spectrum - at least for growing weed. So the question becomes "Do we balance our lights' spectrum to match sunlight or do we balance it to maximize garden performance indoors?" Or by doing the first do we accomplish the second? Some would say yes, some would say no.

 

[lukio]

so, who prefers smoking outdoor to indoor? anyone? prices say not many. id prefer my UV-less indoor to outdoor UK any day

 

[meangreengrowinmachine]

I'm re vamping my room now, got a 12 cob kit from rapid led all ready to go for a 5x5 (I know not QBs lame o lol). What would be the easiest way to add some uv?

 

[Bignutes]

so, who prefers smoking outdoor to indoor? anyone? prices say not many. id prefer my UV-less indoor to outdoor UK any day

The UK is not even remotely ideal for quality outdoor bud

 

[Rocket Soul]

I think the argument was made that it caused too much transpiration. Not that it wasn't having enough. I believe that's what sparked the whole VPD debate if I remember.

What part caused too much? Extra violet or CO2?

 

[Rocket Soul]

so, who prefers smoking outdoor to indoor? anyone? prices say not many. id prefer my UV-less indoor to outdoor UK any day

My favorite bud ever was a outdoor Blue haze, prevegged indoor and out doors in march/april, mountain grown (800m i believe) and buds werent harvested until late october. Amazing terps and a high that litt a tiny yellow sun in my chest and made it impossible to feel that anything wouldnt be alright.

Indoor is nice if you have a lot of variation, if youre smoking the same for a few months i like a well grown outdoor w nice gentics.

 

[Humple]

so, who prefers smoking outdoor to indoor? anyone? prices say not many. id prefer my UV-less indoor to outdoor UK any day

I have yet to personally have any outdoor that could match quality indoor, but I've heard tales of amazing sun-grown weed that matches the best bud that can be found. But how do we know that wasn't due to peeps happening upon genetics that just happened to scratch their unique physiological itch rather than it being due to the light source?

 

[Humple]

My favorite bud ever was a outdoor Blue haze, prevegged indoor and out doors in march/april, mountain grown (800m i believe) and buds werent harvested until late october. Amazing terps and a high that litt a tiny yellow sun in my chest and made it impossible to feel that anything wouldnt be alright.

Indoor is nice if you have a lot of variation, if youre smoking the same for a few months i like a well grown outdoor w nice gentics.

Ahh, so had you tried this particular cut grown indoors as well? Because that would be a solid example of primo sun-grown.

 

[Prawn Connery]

I'll tell you one thing, I smoked almost exclusively outdoor grown weed all through the 80s and into the 90s until I started growing seriously indoors at the start of the millennium. Australian bush weed is as good as anything I've smoked. Perhaps I'm wearing nostalgia-tinted glasses, but we still get bush weed to this day and the best of it rivals the best indoor weed. The caveat is that nearly all the outdoor grown weed is very sativa dominant – in those early days it was pure sativa, because all we ever had were seeds from pot smuggled in from Thailand and other parts of Indochina, sometimes Indonesia and PNG – and very few people grow sativa dominant strains indoors these days, so the comparison probably isn't apples to apples.

UV certainly does increase THC levels, because it breaks down cannabinoids which forces the plant to produce more. Cannabinoids are broken down during the daylight hours under sunlight (UV), and replaced during the dark period. That's why many growers (myself included) give their plants a dark period before harvest. The old-time hippy growers used to harvest their outdoor weed at dawn, as they also believed this was the time when cannabinoids were at their highest concentration. I'm too wasted to trawl the internet now, but Im pretty sure I've read studies confirming this.

The first book I ever read on pot was The Sinsemilla Technique published in 1982 – good times! I wouldn't be surprised if I first read it there.

 

[Prawn Connery]

I'm re vamping my room now, got a 12 cob kit from rapid led all ready to go for a 5x5 (I know not QBs lame o lol). What would be the easiest way to add some uv?

Cheapest and easiest way is reptile bulbs, IMO. Fluoros are still arguably one of the best sources of UV because fluoros create a plasma that is predominantly around the UVB range that is converted to visible light by the phosphor. That's why you sometimes see warnings about cheap CLFs and fluoros that have dodgy phosphors that let UV escape.

 

[meangreengrowinmachine]

Cheapest and easiest way is reptile bulbs, IMO. Fluoros are still arguably one of the best sources of UV because fluoros create a plasma that is predominantly around the UVB range that is converted to visible light by the phosphor. That's why you sometimes see warnings about cheap CLFs and fluoros that have dodgy phosphors that let UV escape.

Thanks man! Now that you mention it I think I have saw a thread or two on this. I'll go digging and not waste anyone else's time on here.

 

[PhatNuggz]

Back in 2014, when I had a popular thread on IC (the early days of spectrum blending,I was using HOT5 mixing aquarium bulbs prior to hooking up with Nick from the BML, I don't recall the dudes name but he posted that 630 provides 95% of what 660 does, but the 630 is stable (I presume compared to the 660s available at that time).

I didn't buy into Victors use of the UV bulb incorporated into his Solar Eclipse because it was not on a timer. I never got around to incorporating a reptile fixture into my BML SPYDR 600, but have excellent grows without it. That said, if there was significant proof that it is well worth the added expense I would (are you listening Humple?)

 

[Prawn Connery]

threads like this make me miss Randomblame. He would be all up in this bitch for sure lol.....i truly hope hes doing well, off seeing the world. Hes one of the good ones.


Good thread everyone, lots of great info, most i cant even understand....i just wanna grow bro

I'm proud to say Random and I had many discussions behind closed doors about the High Light spectrum when we first started looking at it. He was sworn to secrecy, but it's no exaggeration to say he had a big part in its development. We consulted him right from the start.

I hope he's OK too. I don't know how well some of you knew him online, but he had a few issues in his private life. I don't know anyone who was so nice to people and upbeat who had been given such a hard time in life. His brave exterior hid a lot of pain. Perhaps it's not my place to say these things, but I hope he would understand why: that he has some very real friends and grateful people on this site and elsewhere who miss him and really care about him, and wish him only the best in life.

All i have wanted in my spectrum for a few yrs now that is not present is 380-450nm.
As the Australian said (sorry forgot your real name) there's allot going on there. 420 has always spiked my interest. 450 + 470nm has been a factor in purps & bag appeal.
I have been saying for a few yrs now that it is easier for me to grow under higher K temps.
@Rocket Soul 's above graph may be showing exactly why that is.
Plain Cobs & Qb's at 3k or lower is no easy flower for me.
I believe UVA can replace UVB in the garden for now. Until we have better knowledge of how to use it. 450 + 470nm has done a great job at increasing terps, colors & appeal over my lower K-Temp white leds. Could swear higher thc then my HPS bud was. But never did a test other then smoke & service reviews. Literally label same strains under different lighting, color coded with minor spelling change. Then take note of what label color/marking, strain they prefer. Hence telling me the lighting they prefer to smoke buds from under. Was writing led or hps at first.
My understanding is that even if UVB is used at low light levels it can be considered useless for thc increases if not applied properly. Contradictory to what many believe due to the evolution of our plants under the sun. Which i understand but as we all know, outdoor weed is just not as good. Maybe because of the commercial production of it but i feel it is from prolonged exposure to UVB, aside from elements too.
My Deep research (that's right,No links) & tons of experience experimenting with UVB (yeah right) shows that it is best to use it on a timer, allowing the plant random or controlled bursts. This theory someone will prove for me soon. Is that the plant builds up a resistence to the UVB if it is on all day, therefore rendering it useless for increasing thc production. That does not mean it will not work Synergistically with the rest of the full spectrum to create more desirable or plant responses as long as there is a small enough amount being applied that the plant can withstand 12 or 18hrs of it.
So, in order to increase your THC/Cannabinoids using UVB you would want to put it in a timer & adjust that time accordingly based on output or DLI.
Furthermore, to answer previous questions from maybe another thread, UVB is Not worth the Diode addition to a manufactured Grow-Light yet though unfortunately. Its not feasible. DIY is another story. The LG/UVB Diodes would require a different drive current then the rest of the light adding expense, would need its own separate oversized/active heat sinks to last over 3 yrs. Before 20% sets in (projected).
Then you would have to hope the grower uses it properly. So, its a Nay for now.
Australian, have you seen other whites that include 380-450nm? Last yr. I remember seeing at least x3 or x4. Some of which had quite a bit more below 450 then the Optisolis's & one had a chunk from 380-410 more then the others. Wish i remembered the names. Optisolis's were of the highest electrical efficiency amongst them though.

So your boards are a Broad Red 35kish 90cri Nichias with interweaving strips of 5k Optisolis's? Makes a Highlight Board?
Sorry if i missed that. Sure its old info.

I dig these. Didn't i see something about it not being an extra fee to send to the US of A? Maybe i could get some for a 4x4 before this next run in about 10-14 days?
Sound possible if i order now?
@Grow Lights Australia, am i blocked or something? Can't @ you? Hu!!!!.
Holla!

I doubt you're blocked. I'll give him a bump tomorrow if he hasn't seen your post by then.

 

[PhatNuggz]

Excellent response! And thank you for taking the time to articulate what you consider to be a balanced spectrum. As you said, that term is open to interpretation, and different manufacturers can have very different ideas of what the best "balance" is for growing cannabis, so when people start using that term, I think it's appropriate to clarify what is meant... So thanks again!

Really? You come across as already knowing that. Just because carpetbaggers advertise their blurple lights as balanced spectrum, it doesn't take a rocket science degree to know that is BS

 

[Humple]

Really? You come across as already knowing that. Just because carpetbaggers advertise their blurple lights as balanced spectrum, it doesn't take a rocket science degree to know that is BS

I'll refer you to post #122 in hopes that you'll get the underlying point I'm making about the term balance. No clue why this irritates you so though! It's just discussion, man.

 

[Humple]

I'm proud to say Random and I had many discussions behind closed doors about the High Light spectrum when we first started looking at it. He was sworn to secrecy, but it's no exaggeration to say he had a big part in its development. We consulted him right from the start.

I hope he's OK too. I don't know how well some of you knew him online, but he had a few issues in his private life. I don't know anyone who was so nice to people and upbeat who had been given such a hard time in life. His brave exterior hid a lot of pain. Perhaps it's not my place to say these things, but I hope he would understand why: that he has some very real friends and grateful people on this site and elsewhere who miss him and really care about him, and wish him only the best in life.




I doubt you're blocked. I'll give him a bump tomorrow if he hasn't seen your post by then.

Well said. Random was a treasure, and I hope he's safe and happy, whatever he's up to these days.

 

[Prawn Connery]

Back in 2014, when I had a popular thread on IC (the early days of spectrum blending,I was using HOT5 mixing aquarium bulbs prior to hooking up with Nick from the BML, I don't recall the dudes name but he posted that 630 provides 95% of what 660 does, but the 630 is stable (I presume compared to the 660s available at that time).

I didn't buy into Victors use of the UV bulb incorporated into his Solar Eclipse because it was not on a timer. I never got around to incorporating a reptile fixture into my BML SPYDR 600, but have excellent grows without it. That said, if there was significant proof that it is well worth the added expense I would (are you listening Humple?)

Yes, the 620+ region that CRI90+ white phosphor LEDs produce certainly gives results. The main reason LED manufacturers use 660 is because it is currently the most efficient LED spectrum in terms of umol/j. 630 is pretty average. In fact, a good white phosphor LED like Nichia's V3F1 is more efficient than a 630nm mono – and you get all the other colours thrown in. That's something else I discussed with Randomblame at the time: was it better to get our reds from phosphors or from monos? We decided on phosphors, because they don't just peak at 620nm (V3F1) or 660nm (Optisolis), they provide efficient light all around those spectra. Admittedly, the Optisolis are only around 50-52% efficient and the V3F1 CRI90 are around 55-56% – both in 2700K – but they both have a very high QER, so umol/j was calculated at 2.60-2.75 umol/j. The boards themselves ended up around 2.50 umol/j, as the Sunlike drag them down. They are around 48% efficient and 2.20 umol/j tops as the UV pump is not as efficient as typical blue pumps. The UV-pump Optisolis (5000K+) are also around 47% efficiency

 

[2com]

So why do you take offense?

Uh, I don't. Sharing my view does not equal "taking offense". You just insinuate that I do.

Look at my conversation with Prawn - it was perfectly friendly and constructive.

I have. I didn't say it wasn't friendly. I think you're reaching now. I didn't think I was unclear.

Good enough for me in what way? Good enough to convince me? Good enough to shut me up?

Why are you asking me? These would be questions for you to answer, not me. "Good enough to shut me up?"...What? Haha

...I think vendors should be just as accountable when it comes to their claims of spectrum effects as we all want them to be when it comes to efficiency, diodes, and everything else that makes a light.

Me too! Who said they shouldn't? I didn't. But now it's like you're suggesting that "I (or someone) disagrees with this statement". Like a straw man of some sort. Nobody made that argument. It's almost like you're responding to some comment other than the one I posted.

Also, what are the false claims being made here by GLA, Prawn..? Absolutely, point those out. Or maybe you're generalizing. I don't know who these (fictional) people are though, who think or have voiced that venders should not be accountable for their claims. Haha. Wasn't me.

I thought my wording/comment was clear, and just my view. It's almost like you're responding based on how it made you feel, and not the actual content.
I'm not saying you can't participate in discourse. And it's good to be "skeptical" and all that, I'm the same. If you want to know what I actually was saying, just re-read my actual comment.

(Btw, some of these "?'s"/questions are rhetorical. I don't expect a back and forth and I'm done now. I'm not trying to "attack" you. I respect your input.)

Back to the data and topic
Peace.

 

[2com]

Well said. Random was a treasure, and I hope he's safe and happy, whatever he's up to these days.

I think I came here just as he left. I agree, man that guy - him and Or_Gro. They share(d) so much info. Much appreciation for all they and others like them (@ChiefRunningPhist for eg) do. Always helping everyone, and contributing useful information, and answering questions. It's like they never sleep, hah.