Lightning help for non-weed setup

[eLod]

hey guys,

first of all thanks for all the wonderful information i already could find on this forum. i am a complete newbie to led lightning. hopefully i've gathered enough information to be able to articulate my questions. also sorry for my english, it's not my native language.

some important details of my setup: first of all i am not interested in growing mj in the foreseeable future (read a few years, so if the lightning is optimal for them also, good, but it's not a priority, i expect technology to change in that timespan anyway), but just trying to start with hydroponics vegetables. hopefully this is not a problem, but i've found that i can gather way more detailed information from places like this, compared to other hydro sites (this may also mean i am way overdoing it). if everything goes well i think i would try some fruiting vegetables, so that may affect the light choice (eg temperature, see later).

so as this is my first time i plan to start with lettuce, basil and other non flowering/fruits and mostly easy leafy greens. i also don't have a tent and i plan to have my system in our living room in open, next to a white wall, but no other reflecting materials and hopefully without any ventilation/fans needed. my space is a 120 cm x 40 cm (~ 4 ft x 1.3 ft) growing area and a 60 cm x 30cm (~ 2ft x 1 ft) seedling/propagation area organised in a single row (so it's roughly 180 cm x 40cm or ~ 6ft x 1.3ft ~ 8 ft2). as for the budget, i don't have strong limits, obviously i want it to be as cost effective as it can be (i live in central eu so most likely digikey) and build complexity also matters (i am an engineer, but i am a software guy, so i can look-up, re-educate and copy, but i have my limits), i am not sure what is realistic but i am hoping for something 1-200$ tops.

searching around the forums it seems to me that recently the recommendation generally is to use F series strips. i've also read that i should shoot for around 30W / ft2 (does that hold also for lettuce/leafy greens or more like cannabis? flowering plants like tomato pepper?), that would mean around 240W for my entire area, but basically this as far as i got, and i have some (possibly dumb) questions, which are obviously connected, like what/how many and what size strips should i use, which temperature should i go for, should i go for multiple (eg different) or single, on what amper should i drive them, etc.

thanks

 

[Airwalker16]

For English being a second language, you could have fooled me...
But as for your space, strips are perfect. 4' f strips will do great and tomatoes and such are great under LED. Works flawlessly. Get some 3000k ones, and run them at a higher wattage if you're budgets restricted. They're not the cheapest strips... But you can save on drivers by using MeanWells other models other than HLG. Look at using their XLG, LRS, or ELG(especially elg because it's so much more efficient on 240VAC power which you have over there in EU). You'll need some sort of heatsinks and a frame built for them to be mounted on to as well.

 

[eLod]

hey, thanks for the quick answer, still digesting. so are you suggesting multiple identical 4 foot (the longer ones) strips? i guess the double row version eg https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/samsung-semiconductor-inc/SI-B8VZ91B20WW/1510-2229-ND/6676693 how many do you suggest for my area? digikey show me them around 40$ currently. so you are recommending 3000k for both seedlings & veg & fruit for my purposes all the time right (just trying to be explicit), e.g. no need to think in different grow stages/strips?

yes i think it should be 220V here in eu. i don't mean to shave off every dollar, so i can go with a more robust/high efficiency driver if that means i can reuse it in later setups and etc. i haven't got into the driver & wiring parts yet bc i wasn't sure if i need multiple strips and etc., but certainly the next thing i will look into once i've got the strip details figured out. the next thing i wanted to ask but didn't want to rush it is what kind of cooling do you think it's ok, i saw there are plenty of options on the tme.eu site (was recommended by a friend, not sure if you know it), not sure about digikey (and was also wondering which type of thing you recommend the most, eg i saw plc's sinks, his videos and the other alu extrusion profiles he is using). i would certainly pay a bit more to get away with lower temperatures (driving the strips on lower current and thus making less heat if i understand correctly) as this will be in a room (and i don't have great aeration options in terms of natural air flows and i would avoid fans).

as for the frame: i thought as long as i only have one or two full length strips i can hang just them individually, i have some sort of wood frame around the are i can attach/chain onto, so i would do without an alu frame, as long as you think it's ok.

edit: spell correct

 

[eLod]

sorry for double posting, not sure if you see the previous one (it says awaiting mod approval, invisible to normal visitors, i guess bc i've linked to digikey, so this time only using the model #):

hey, thanks for the quick answer, still digesting. so are you suggesting multiple identical 4 foot (the longer ones) strips? i guess the double row version eg SI-B8VZ91B20WW how many do you suggest for my area? digikey show me them around 40$ currently. so you are recommending 3000k for both seedlings & veg & fruit for my purposes all the time right (just trying to be explicit), e.g. no need to think in different grow stages/strips?

yes i think it should be 220V here in eu. i don't mean to shave off every dollar, so i can go with a more robust/high efficiency driver if that means i can reuse it in later setups and etc. i haven't got into the driver & wiring parts yet bc i wasn't sure if i need multiple strips and etc., but certainly the next thing i will look into once i've got the strip details figured out. the next thing i wanted to ask but didn't want to rush it is what kind of cooling do you think it's ok, i saw there are plenty of options on the tme.eu site (was recommended by a friend, not sure if you know it), not sure about digikey (and was also wondering which type of thing you recommend the most, eg i saw plc's sinks, his videos and the other alu extrusion profiles he is using). i would certainly pay a bit more to get away with lower temperatures (driving the strips on lower current and thus making less heat if i understand correctly) as this will be in a room (and i don't have great aeration options in terms of natural air flows and i would avoid fans).

as for the frame: i thought as long as i only have one or two full length strips i can hang just them individually, i have some sort of wood frame around the are i can attach/chain onto, so i would do without an alu frame, as long as you think it's ok.

edit: spell correct

 

[X6xsilverx6X]

Those $5 Samsung strips would probably work? If any left in stock at arrow. SL-B8V7N90L1WW

 

[Airwalker16]

Well your 8sq ft need about 250watts. You're going to need a few strips... You will need serious heatsinking if you plan to push that out of 2 strips. At least 4 I'd suggest. But double row f series aren't the only option.

These won't need heatsinks if you run them relatively soft. And are 1/5 the price of f series.

BXEB-L1120Z-50E4000-C-B3 Bridgelux | Optoelectronics | DigiKey

Order today, ships today. BXEB-L1120Z-50E4000-C-B3 – LED Lighting COBs Engines Modules LED Module series White, Cool Linear Light Strip from Bridgelux. Pricing and Availability on millions of electronic components from Digi-Key Electronics.

www.digikey.com

Buy 8 of those, an HLG-240H-42-A/B B if you want to wire your own potentiometer to it for 0-100% dimming. A is an internal screw on the driver that does 50-100%. And wire them all in parallel. You'll need some angle aluminum for a frame though. Doesn't need to be robust. Just something to mount the strips to and keep it all together. With 8 strips you'll be running each one at only 30watts(750ish mA) so heatsinking won't be an issue.

 

[Airwalker16]

Those $5 Samsung strips would probably work? If any left in stock at arrow. SL-B8V7N90L1WW

Ya, true, you could have lengths of 3 and span the whole 6ft you've got to cover. But these 4' ebs are way more efficient and actually cheaper, being only $8.40 for a 4' rather than $5 for 2'.

 

[eLod]

@X6xsilverx6X are you asking me? they are out of stock at arrow, on top of that arrow seems to be having a 50$ shipping cost, while digikey says shipping is free above 60$ (which i guess will be applicable for me), so that's a big difference. digikey shows me them at 30$.

 

[Airwalker16]

@X6xsilverx6X are you asking me? they are out of stock at arrow, on top of that arrow seems to be having a 50$ shipping cost, while digikey says shipping is free above 60$ (which i guess will be applicable for me), so that's a big difference. digikey shows me them at 30$.

Lolololol those god damn strips man... Fluctuating between $4.90 and $29, what almost seems like every other day.

 

[X6xsilverx6X]

@X6xsilverx6X are you asking me? they are out of stock at arrow, on top of that arrow seems to be having a 50$ shipping cost, while digikey says shipping is free above 60$ (which i guess will be applicable for me), so that's a big difference. digikey shows me them at 30$.

Yeah i think you have to sign up for arrow rewards to get free ship now days, if those are to your liking just wait it out or look around maybe future electronics or something will have them cheap otherwise those eb strips air mentioned are hella great price

 

[eLod]

@Airwalker16 i'm a bit confused, i am not arguing, just trying to understand, this bridgelux one you've linked is an 5000k one, before you've recommended 3000k, i thought temperature matters. i don't have anything against the bridgelux strips, but having 2 or even 3 of the f series is well within my budget. i am not sure if my math is good here, but they are 46V, with 2.24A (typ) that is ~100W, with 2.6A ~120W, so 2 of those would be ~240W, or am i missing something here? should i run them on lower like 1.75A ~80W, but then still 3 of those should be enough no? so the strips with the alu heat sink are at least 5-6cm wide so 3 of them would put me 15-20cm without spacing.

also i would go with as few strips as possible, i really would like the light fixture not to be more wide than the area itself (eg the 30-40cm, ~ 1-1.3ft), or do you recommend sticking the strips without spacing?

as for cooling: i would go with these alu heat sinks, i don't have a problem with them (i actually quite like how they look). i understand you are saying i need some kind of frame to hold them together (i also realised meanwhile maybe they should move together, if i lower them or reposition in any way, so its better with some kind of frame). what size/shape do you recommend? it does not matter? or rather it depends on the actual strips & power i am going to use.

 

[eLod]

@X6xsilverx6X oh didn't know that (free shipping for signup). i don't want to mindlessly chase "quality", but as per my current limited knowledge i sympathise with the f series more bc all i've read is they are better quality. so again obviously budget does matter and i don't have all the money in the world, but to some extent i am willing to invest more in better technology or quality, i am not going to run this system for roi but rather for fun. so i am not trying to argue or not taking advice, just trying to better understand why you suggest something and if it fits my situation. also thank you for your suggestion, i understand there must be a gazillion people like me asking these questions and trying to flex the answers so it fits their dreamt-up way (without actual knowledge).

 

[Airwalker16]

@Airwalker16 i'm a bit confused, i am not arguing, just trying to understand, this bridgelux one you've linked is an 5000k one, before you've recommended 3000k, i thought temperature matters. i don't have anything against the bridgelux strips, but having 2 or even 3 of the f series is well within my budget. i am not sure if my math is good here, but they are 46V, with 2.24A (typ) that is ~100W, with 2.6A ~120W, so 2 of those would be ~240W, or am i missing something here? should i run them on lower like 1.75A ~80W, but then still 3 of those should be enough no? so the strips with the alu heat sink are at least 5-6cm wide so 3 of them would put me 15-20cm without spacing.

also i would go with as few strips as possible, i really would like the light fixture not to be more wide than the area itself (eg the 30-40cm, ~ 1-1.3ft), or do you recommend sticking the strips without spacing?

as for cooling: i would go with these alu heat sinks, i don't have a problem with them (i actually quite like how they look). i understand you are saying i need some kind of frame to hold them together (i also realised meanwhile maybe they should move together, if i lower them or reposition in any way, so its better with some kind of frame). what size/shape do you recommend? it does not matter? or rather it depends on the actual strips & power i am going to use.

The more strips the better. I just linked the strip. Didn't specify the cct. You'd want 3000k still but only available in 100qty. 3500 will be fine:

https://www.digikey.com/products/en?keywords=BXEB-L1120Z-35E4000-C-B3

 

[Airwalker16]

You want more spread with more diodes at lower currents. You're lumens per watt goes up quite significantly at lower currents compared to a strips Max current rating.

 

[eLod]

trying to ask more questions to understand things better (i appreciate you are giving me strips, but i still don't understand why you pick one). so for example the same bridgelux eb series 2 there is BXEB-L0280Z-35E1000-C-B3, digikey gives me 2.8$, because its 1 ft i can even fit 3*6 or even 3*8 over my area (given i don't need space between the strips), and it would still only cost me 3*8*2.8=70$ while giving me absolute coverage of the area with strips (is that what we shoot for?). with 24 strips i only need to run them at around 10W to get to 240W. what are you guys looking at when deciding between strips? i obviously don't expect you to get the full knowledge and years of experience into my head, but i would really need some pointers between googling "what's the best led strip for growing" and understanding what to avoid what to look for on a high level.

 

[Airwalker16]

trying to ask more questions to understand things better (i appreciate you are giving me strips, but i still don't understand why you pick one). so for example the same bridgelux eb series 2 there is BXEB-L0280Z-35E1000-C-B3, digikey gives me 2.8$, because its 1 ft i can even fit 3*6 or even 3*8 over my area (given i don't need space between the strips), and it would still only cost me 3*8*2.8=70$ while giving me absolute coverage of the area with strips (is that what we shoot for?). with 24 strips i only need to run them at around 10W to get to 240W. what are you guys looking at when deciding between strips? i obviously don't expect you to get the full knowledge and years of experience into my head, but i would really need some pointers between googling "what's the best led strip for growing" and understanding what to avoid what to look for on a high level.

Sure, you can use 1' strips. If you do that, use 3 drivers and build e separate fixtures with 8 strips each, 24 total. You'll be happy you did. More versatility to hanging heights, and things like that.

 

[Airwalker16]

Also, this is where cheaper drivers will come in handy. LRS-100-## is what you'll use. 100watt drivers, non DIMMABLE, but only $16 each. 300total watts. Lil extra for you to use, and 12.5w per strip. Beautiful.

 

[eLod]

sorry i am not trying to be a d*ckhead, but i still don't understand how do i evaluate these strips, so i guess you are saying there is no difference between these strips (even between samsung and bridgelux), eg the price is a much heavier factor (eg with running on lower current you almost go for as much strips/coverage as you can, so because the quality difference is a smaller factor it's better to have 8 pieces of the inferior quality than having 4 pieces of the better quality, eg 8 BXEB-L1120Z-35E4000-C-B3 VS 4 SI-B8V521560WW for whatever area), is that right? if so i guess there are a couple brands/series that are ok and some are not.

 

[eLod]

sorry its getting a bit late here, i've realised my area is 6 foot x 1.3 foot, so i actually i can have 3*8=24 pc of 2 foot strips (not 1 foot longs). so from the 2.8$ one i could do 48 pieces (giving me ~135$ which is around the price of 3 pc of the 4 ft samsung f series). at what point is it overdoing it? certainly the bigger tents would also cover every square mm with strips also if it would be more efficient, so i still feel like i am missing something here.

edit: ok, i think i should go to sleep, but realised the bridgelux ones are narrower, so BXEB-L0560Z-30E2000-C-B3 is 2 ft (so 3x for my length) and 2.4cm wide (so 16x), so i can fit in 3*16=48 of those strips (for 230$, so thats off my budget, but just maximising the coverage). i think i will go to sleep, and continue the learning process tomorrow. thank you all.

 

[end_of_the_tunnel]

sorry i am not trying to be a d*ckhead, but i still don't understand how do i evaluate these strips, so i guess you are saying there is no difference between these strips (even between samsung and bridgelux), eg the price is a much heavier factor (eg with running on lower current you almost go for as much strips/coverage as you can, so because the quality difference is a smaller factor it's better to have 8 pieces of the inferior quality than having 4 pieces of the better quality, eg 8 BXEB-L1120Z-35E4000-C-B3 VS 4 SI-B8V521560WW for whatever area), is that right? if so i guess there are a couple brands/series that are ok and some are not.

Mostly people prefer product with top efficiency diodes. Samsung has online calculators. I expect other manufacturers might offer similar tools.

Engine Calculator | SAMSUNG LED | Samsung LED Global Website

Engine Calculator - Support. Calculate engine at Samsung LED global website quickly and easily

www.samsung.com

LED Component Calculator | SAMSUNG LED | Samsung LED Global Website

Samsung inspires the world and shapes the future with transformative ideas and technologies. The company is redefining the worlds of TVs, smartphones, wearable devices, tablets, digital appliances, network systems, and memory, system LSI and LED solutions.

www.samsung.com

Example using three different products here.

LED strip Lords. I need your guidance.

Im not sure if its automatic or if its screwdriver in hole dimming a la A-type meanwell dimming. Thnx , i looked earlier on that white knob but now i think that could be a voltage adjuster. I will check it out with the multimeter if i build this light and take a closer look how the voltage...

www.rollitup.org