First aero start-up

[JacFlasche]

Been growing since 67, but this is the first time I tried it without soil. Didn't need to grow inside until now. Real led light due in a week. Been moving my spyder by hand about six times a day. Now on second day in aero changed timing from 3sec on and 3 minutes off, to 2 sec on and 3:35 off. They still seem a little wet, but roots are growing like crazy. Plan on going to 2 on 5 off, then 1 on 5 off in the next week. Using Dutch Masters hydro/aero 3part and Cal Mag plus. with RO water. Staggered nozzle assembly placement and net cups so they are aimed between the plants near them and at the plants on the opposite side. Presently running without an accumulator waiting for fittings and a new tank, the one I got sent got dented in shipping so thank goodness it is not really needed. Misters are extremely strong and I had to wrap bungies and rope with foam stuck in to quiet the 75 gallon tote down. Not bad now. When all the plumbing is hooked up I think it will be quieter.
Strains: -12 Ultra White Amnesia Haze X Kosher Kush
--------4 Jelly Bean X (Soul Train X Agent Orange)
--------3 (Malangi (landrace) X Gogi OG) X (Punta Roja (landrace) X Mother's Finest(F7))

 

[UpstateRecGrower]

Been growing since 67, but this is the first time I tried it without soil. Didn't need to grow inside until now. Real led light due in a week. Been moving my spyder by hand about six times a day. Now on second day in aero changed timing from 3sec on and 3 minutes off, to 2 sec on and 3:35 off. They still seem a little wet, but roots are growing like crazy. Plan on going to 2 on 5 off, then 1 on 5 off in the next week. Using Dutch Masters hydro/aero 3part and Cal Mag plus. with RO water. Staggered nozzle assembly placement and net cups so they are aimed between the plants near them and at the plants on the opposite side. Presently running without an accumulator waiting for fittings and a new tank, the one I got sent got dented in shipping so thank goodness it is not really needed. Misters are extremely strong and I had to wrap bungies and rope with foam stuck in to quiet the 75 gallon tote down. Not bad now. When all the plumbing is hooked up I think it will be quieter.View attachment 4617511View attachment 4617512View attachment 4617517
Strains: -12 Ultra White Amnesia Haze X Kosher Kush
--------4 Jelly Bean X (Soul Train X Agent Orange)
--------3 (Malangi (landrace) X Gogi OG) X (Punta Roja (landrace) X Mother's Finest(F7))

Just curious what made you want to go with high pressure aero? I started off that way close to a decade ago but don’t grow like that anymore..

 

[JacFlasche]

Just curious what made you want to go with high pressure aero? I started off that way close to a decade ago but don’t grow like that anymore..

I didn't want soil or anything that could harbor any of the pest I had to deal with outside. I have been waiting for both aero and leds to get were they are today. Just seemed like the time to jump in since I am back on the east coast. I thought about other systems. I built a dyi aero cloner years ago, it worked ok but I got just as good results with rockwool and a dome. Just seemed like the best way to go to me. I have always grown in soil except for the clones. I lived in Cali for thirty years and before they changed the law I could basically grow hundreds of plants in my back yard legally. I did a lot of breeding and probably will not be able to do much of that indoors. I bet I have fifty strains that no one else has, have used landrace seeds from Africa, China, Pakistan, Nepal, Columbia, Panama, India, Brazil, Viet Nam and all the best hybrids that Cali breeders dreamed up stupid names for. So it's time to use some of my seed and make some F2s and F3s. I guess I like the quick turn over in generations and the minimalism about Aero. I thought about aero long ago, but, really, with a back yard full of 12 ft plants what's the point? Now I have a reason to move to best production in smallest space. Why did you stop? Perhaps you have some suggestions on what to avoid? Maybe I should have gone with an air compressor dry misting system, they seem to work pretty great. I may still do that if I can find a quiet enough air compressor for the right price. Would have only needed one nozzle for my 75gal tote. Just a note, from someone who has basically been high since the sixties. The best pot I ever had was real Punta Roja that came around in the seventies. It was twice as much as Colombian -- $40 a Z and I almost didn't buy it. Wish I had saved some of the seeds, because all the stuff now called Punta Roja just is no where near as fine. And none of the new breeds, I mean none of them even approaches the delicious taste it had.

 

[Renfro]

I didn't want soil or anything that could harbor any of the pest I had to deal with outside.

I hear that!

When you get tired of the aero, look into setting up a flood and drain system. This is by far the simplest and most forgiving active hydro system. Run it with LECA and use a good sized reservoir. I run flood and drain without dumping my reservoir for a whole cycle. Just keep it topped off with water and maintain PPM and pH.

 

[JacFlasche]

I hear that!

When you get tired of the aero, look into setting up a flood and drain system. This is by far the simplest and most forgiving active hydro system. Run it with LECA and use a good sized reservoir. I run flood and drain without dumping my reservoir for a whole cycle. Just keep it topped off with water and maintain PPM and pH.

I'll keep that in mind but I don't see why I would "get tired" of something so simple and easy.

 

[JacFlasche]

I am seriously thinking about DTW instead of using the ten gallon reservoir I now use to keep the system cleaner.

 

[DaFreak]

I'll keep that in mind but I don't see why I would "get tired" of something so simple and easy.

Did aero for many years, tired of the noise, pump failures, clogged jets, and at the end of day yields that were the same as every other form of hydro. It’s all good though. I will say that I tried various timings and I never saw a difference.

 

[Renfro]

I'll keep that in mind but I don't see why I would "get tired" of something so simple and easy.

the noise, pump failures, clogged jets, and at the end of day yields that were the same as every other form of hydro

@DaFreak nailed it down for you. Trust me, you will tire of it.

If you want simple and easy hydro then flood and drain is the way to go IMO. DWC is simple but for many it's not easy because of pythium.

 

[UpstateRecGrower]

I am seriously thinking about DTW instead of using the ten gallon reservoir I now use to keep the system cleaner.

You’ll 100% want to go DTW if using high pressure aero

 

[JacFlasche]

@DaFreak nailed it down for you. Trust me, you will tire of it.

If you want simple and easy hydro then flood and drain is the way to go IMO. DWC is simple but for many it's not easy because of pythium.

Well I got the noise squared away. One second on and five minutes off and you can't even hear it unless you are standing right next to it. When the accumulator is online it should even be quieter. I think I can avoid a lot of the clogged fogger problems by draining to waste. I am presently running a 50 micron filter over the intake hose and have a 200 mesh spin down filter inline. I also have like fifty spare tefen foggers with removable filters in each of them, but I think the drain to waste is still gonna be the way to go.
A lot of the aero systems that people have built are using sprinklers and submersible pumps and keeping them on for minutes at a time. That is not aero. It may work for them. I have seen pretty good results with such systems, but it is really not aero.
Pump failures -- I have backup pumps, back up transformers, backup foggers, backup plumbing, a UPS in case of power outage. No backup generator, but my power company is not like PG&E if the power goes out, it comes back on very soon. So even if there is a power outage that last days, they still get fog, but no light. In fact I could build another system and a half with my backup inventory.
I don't have any personal experience, but I would say there are quite a few people running real aero systems that get the droplet size down below 50microns that would disagree with the statement that they only produce as much as other hydro. I could believe that about sprinkler heads like easy clone heads but not about fogging and dry fogging heads.

 

[DaFreak]

Reality is that nobody really does aero. Unless your roots are completely suspended you’re doing a s sdwc or a version of nft and a little aero. I personally am against dtw With these type systems because of the waste. Nutrient bloom stretched all across the Atlantic this year. Do what you may, but I doubt you’ll see any difference by doing dtw.

mans you can disagree, but get a decade or two experience and then disagree. Sorry to tell you pal, simple bucket with medium produces the same.

 

[DaFreak]

Let me take that back, just get a year with that system you got and then disagree. Real aero is bs. Still work great, don’t get me wrong, but the terminology is wrong, you got an aero system till the roots hit the container.

 

[JacFlasche]

Let me take that back, just get a year with that system you got and then disagree. Real aero is bs. Still work great, don’t get me wrong, but the terminology is wrong, you got an aero system till the roots hit the container.

My understanding of the target for aero is to never really make the roots wet enough so that they drip. To ideally keep them at a minimal moisture level that is just about gone entirely when the next second of mist comes on. I guess they are gonna hit the bottom eventually, but at this point I get a drop of runoff about ever two seconds. I consider this too wet, but the plants have only been in there for a few days. In the weeks ahead I hope to tune the system until the roots are always damp but there is not run off at all.
I am going to go with what I got, and I have a feeling that if I make any changes it will be in the direction of a compressed air system. Then I could really get the droplet size in the sweet zone and introduce oxygen into the roots at the same time. Right now I am looking for constructive advice, not, it won't be any better than whatever. You may well be right in your remarks, doesn't really matter -- this is my hobby and I am gonna give it a go. I am totally noncommercial, totally toxin free, and have enough buds in vacuum sealed jars in an extra fridge to last through years of total failure if necessary. And dude if you think that a half a cup of runoff a day flushed down a drain and run through a water purification plant is gonna make a difference to the state of the Atlantic -- well what can I say? Take a look at a corn field sprayed with tons of carcinogenic round-up no-till in addition to ferts that runs into a creek or river with no treatment and my system is not even equal to a few square inches of what's all around us.

 

[DaFreak]

If you only get half a cup then I agree. And I don’t grow corn and only can control what I buy and produce. I personally don’t want to add anymore than I need to. And I’m not knocking aero systems, any way you enjoy growing is cool. I’m just saying after 20 years in hydro I’ve learned it’s all about right system for the circumstances but done correctly, they all should yield the same. Just a little T.a.g déjà vu from the 90s

 

[Renfro]

Do yourself a favor and don't back yourself into an aero corner by arguing with others to the point that you can't eventually admit to yourself that we could be right. Can you grow weed with aero, yeah, can you grow the best yields? no. Aero is limited to smaller plant sizes. Grow a massive plant and it has massive roots that aero can't properly wet without nozzles in the middle of the root ball. Anyways, we are only trying to help. The ingenuity you have shown with your system build indicates that you have a bright growing future ahead of you, just be willing to adapt. Some folks can learn from mistakes made by others where some must try it themselves to learn. Either way is fine so long as your mind is open to the learning one way or another.

Do we give a shit? No. Just trying to help.

 

[UpstateRecGrower]

Why did you stop?

I completed 2 full grows in HP aero. I consider HP aero more of a hobby grow, its definitely cool to look at and play around with, if I had a small 4x4 tent grow going and nothing else I may even do it again.. But other than that its pointless, it doesn't yield any better than the other hydro systems, and much like nutrients roots can only utilize so much oxygen. I grow in rockwool now, drain to waste, I have impressive yields and it is a bulletproof system... You don't need to worry about bugs with rockwool or coco.

 

[JacFlasche]

My system is happily working away, but I am still waiting for a better led. I ordered the new MarsHydro. They said they would ship on the 7th then changed it to the 30th. I got a refund. I am now waiting for a GeekBeast Pro 650. The hpa sure is a lot quieter now. So far no clogs but I got a bad pressure switch and have to return it. I am so glad that this thing works great without an accumulator. I had it running with one for a few hours then the pressure switch stuck closed. I think I am gonna up the psi on the new one to on at 120 and off at 140psi. The mist seems finer at higher pressure. My pump is rated 160psi, and my accumulator is rated at 150working pressure, and my pressure valve's high setting is 150psi so it all should be good to go at a higher system pressure. If I can find a ultra quiet compressor that is also capable of the requirements I am gonna set up a second 75 gallon tote and run a dry fog with an ultrasonic head. Too bad foggers are so hot because I have a heavy duty one that I never used. I had had plans to generate the fog in one tote and blow it into the grow tote, but never built it. It seems like there are several advantages to a dry fog system like being able to use things that would clog up a tefen head -- like compost tea, and there is the fact that you are injecting air along with much smaller droplets, maybe too small. But some of them are adjustable and some you can control the droplet size with the air mix. I would like to eventually do a side by side comparison. I may use both in the same tote and use the hpa as a back up to the ultrasonic foggers. All depends on a capable quiet compressor. I am shopping. I'm now running one second on and six minutes off, and they still seem too wet to me. I have been running it for a little over a week now and have gone from about 40ppm to 400ppm. You hit it on the head, this is a hobby for me. I am mostly into breeding and will have to figure out a way to work that in. Fortunately a little pollen goes a long way, and you can keep it fresh in the fridge. I may start a little forest of bonsai males. With males, there is really very little to go on as far as which will eventually produce superior f1s.

 

[JacFlasche]

Do yourself a favor and don't back yourself into an aero corner by arguing with others to the point that you can't eventually admit to yourself that we could be right. Can you grow weed with aero, yeah, can you grow the best yields? no. Aero is limited to smaller plant sizes. Grow a massive plant and it has massive roots that aero can't properly wet without nozzles in the middle of the root ball. Anyways, we are only trying to help. The ingenuity you have shown with your system build indicates that you have a bright growing future ahead of you, just be willing to adapt. Some folks can learn from mistakes made by others where some must try it themselves to learn. Either way is fine so long as your mind is open to the learning one way or another.

Do we give a shit? No. Just trying to help.

You do realize that your statement is an oxymoron? If you are trying to help, then by definition you give a shit. About what? I don't know. If you actually read what I wrote you won't find me arguing about anything with anyone. Though I am now definately arguing with you about me not arguing. I am enjoying my aero experiment/experience immensely. I am seriously considering doubling it with a ultrasonic fogger module. I was kind of amazed by the fact that some of the seed I used were at least six years old and every one of them were viable. If I had known that was going to be the case I would have used a lot less seeds. But I paddled out to an island in the river where I live and planted the surplus in the middle of a patch of poison ivy. I sun hardened them under screens for a few days but their on their own now. Poor little guys.

 

[Keesje]

If aero would give better yields, or more harvests per year, or be an easy system, it would be used by commercial growers of herbs, plants, vegetables, flowers.
But they hardly use it.
It is used sometimes when there is a lack of space or a lack of water. And with some specific plants (I do not know too much about this)
But even the commercial growers who do use it, say that the big downside of the system is technique.
The more technique, the more stuff than can fail or can brake down. Commercial growers don't want that.
They want a system they can rely on and gives them a constant yield.

I followed some threads of people who use High Pressure Aero and they come up with claims that their waterdrops are so fine, that it better for the roots. BS. Roots just absorb water. It is more on a molecule level.
Also I never saw a yield that is way better with HP Aero then with other hydro systems. If you are a shitty grower, you still will be a shitty grower with HP Aero.
I even think that when you are a shitty grower to stay away from HP Aero anyway.

If you like technique, then go for it.
But otherwise I would not know any reason to use it.

 

[SuperiorBuds]

I am an engineer, I like to tinker with things too. I had been growing for about 20 years w/ an ebb and flow system that "just worked" but when I moved into the new house I decided to go all-in on high pressure aero. I loved the science behind it and I really thought it would be fun, as long as I could get near the same yields I'd be happy.

There is a fully documented thread on my HPA build-out over on OG, as well as a few different grows. After 3 harvests I realized a few things...

1. You need a bigger root zone than you think. You don't want to directly spray the roots directly so it takes a much larger volume of air per plant in order to keep spacing proper so that the nozzles don't soak the roots or walls of the chamber.
2. It is annoying to have to play with settings constantly. The plants slowly need more and more nutrients as they grow. You can't over-saturate or you won't get root hairs and you can't let them get too dry or the hairs die off. This leads to constant adjustments of the timings or you eliminate the entire benefit of HPA. (A much larger root zone helps with this, but is not practical.)
3. Not having a medium to stabilize large plants is a pain in the ass. Build a trellis, and make it strong since it will be supporting the full weight of the plant and the root mass.
4. Roots will grow directly towards the source of the mist, even horizontally. They will overtake your nozzles if you're not careful, prepare for it.
5. HPA cannot feed large fruiting plants. You can grow small plants but do not expect to pull 1lb yields.
6. Too many points of failure. Any failure in HPA can be catastrophic since it doesn't take long for the root zone to dry out and the hairs to die back. Then it's back to square one with your timings and feed schedule. Have backups for your backups.

When things are dialed in you can get some impressive growth, but as things compound it ends up being way more work for way less end product..

Thankfully when I built my system I had prepared a backup plan that allowed me to convert back to ebb and flow w/ minimal changes. I've since repurposed all of my HPA gear into other projects.