Catch me up

[Rahz]

I've been away for a while. Was just rummaging through my stash of parts. I need to build a lamp for a 3x3 tent. I have Vero29v7, 150mm pin fin sinks, HLG 300w driver so everything I need. But it's been a while and I'm wondering what would be a high end build at the moment? I still have 200w lamps based on Citizen 1825s at 60% efficiency... still the best lamps I've ever built. Two of them in a 30x60 tent produce well over a lb.

But I'm wondering have the 1825s been revised since a year or two ago? Is Vero still gen 7? Are the quantum boards and mid power diodes getting revised?

What's new and cutting edge these days?

 

[Gorillabilly]

look at quantum boards.

 

[Rahz]

look at quantum boards.

I'm aware of them... very nice lamps!

I guess what I'm asking is, has the efficiency of Bridgelux, Samsung, Citizen advanced over the last year? I know I can build 60% efficient lamps underdriving the 1825s I have from a few years ago. I'm wondering if higher efficiencies have been achieved in the last year or two.

I just noticed there's a Vero version 8 now. I checked the product sims and they don't seem any more efficient than v7s. But I remember running v7s Vero29C 3000K/90CRI at 45w each for 56% efficiency. Now it seems they are running at 56% efficiency at 69 watts (1050ma) and 62% efficient at 700ma (45w). That's huge! That basically puts them on par with Citizen 1825s for less money.

Unless Citizen has improved their specs in the last couple years? and what diodes are the boards running these days? Ugh, I'll probably be looking at datasheets for the next day or two.

 

[Gorillabilly]

Man id love to help but I just switched to led a few years back but wasn't real tech savvy as far as lights and plants go. I started with a mezhi 1200 and it was actually an awesome light, grew out a bunch of plants with it. Then bought an hlg 550 and wow. Now I run a 260 and a 550 in a 4x8 that I actually use 4x6 for plants. Its perfect. Thats the best I can do for ya. Thats 6 qbs for a 4x6, if they were mounted with a better spread it would do the 4x8 fine.

 

[Barristan Whitebeard]

and what diodes are the boards running these days? Ugh, I'll probably be looking at datasheets for the next day or two.

HLG uses 3500k Samsung LM301H whites and Osram Oslon SSL 660nm for the QB 288 V2 R Spec boards.

4000k Samsung LM301H whites and LH351H 660nm are used for the QB 648 (666 diodes total and dubbed the Diablo by HLG). HLG pulled these boards and the DIY kits using these boards off their website shortly after they were released. @CobKits may be one of the only sellers still stocking them. If you want to check it out, the link below mentions the known board defect.

HLG Samsung QB 648 Diablo – CobKits.com

cobkits.com

HLG also still sells the smaller board QB 96 Elite V2. Like some COBs, they use a splayed pin fin heatsink (SSTX heatsink with 125mm x 125mm base). They're not as efficient as the others, but still an effective light and a good value for the money. I copied/pasted the following that I wrote in the DIY with Quantum Boards thread last week when someone asked which diodes are used for these boards, "Lumileds Luxeon 5050 are used for the white diodes. Luminus 3535 are used for the red and deep red diodes. I believe the specific chips used are SST-10-R and SST-10-DR."

If you're interested in other boards/strips, I'm happy to try and help.

 

[Chip Green]

QB 96 Elites are the cats ass.

 

[DankaDank]

I'm aware of them... very nice lamps!

I guess what I'm asking is, has the efficiency of Bridgelux, Samsung, Citizen advanced over the last year? I know I can build 60% efficient lamps underdriving the 1825s I have from a few years ago. I'm wondering if higher efficiencies have been achieved in the last year or two.

I just noticed there's a Vero version 8 now. I checked the product sims and they don't seem any more efficient than v7s. But I remember running v7s Vero29C 3000K/90CRI at 45w each for 56% efficiency. Now it seems they are running at 56% efficiency at 69 watts (1050ma) and 62% efficient at 700ma (45w). That's huge! That basically puts them on par with Citizen 1825s for less money.

Unless Citizen has improved their specs in the last couple years? and what diodes are the boards running these days? Ugh, I'll probably be looking at datasheets for the next day or two.

Good to see you back, thought we lost another OG.
Was eagerly awaiting the Gen8 from Bridgelux but it seems its the first manufacturer to drop in efficiency over most drive currents with a new Gen, WTF.


The 4th gen from Luminus seems pretty good value for money at the same wattage as the 29C.

Hasn't been that much of an improvement on citizen from gen 5-8, not sure what happened to gen 7 but it never existed. From my readings over the years they have always been conservative in their efficiency data cant say the same for their lumen maintenance, with the whole scandal couple years back. Think phosphor conversion is reaching its limit.

Mid powers have become popular with the scene mainly cause manufacturers have been able to negate heatsinks and reduce costs, and everybody seems to think rack/strip lights are best suited to grow tents lol.
Been seeing better results with 50% mix 3000k 80 and 90cri spectrum over the current craze, with a little in the middle and massive spikes in blue and red.
Once again its down to manufactures inflating efficiency ratings with spectral sacrifice and brainwashing the general public to think its the optimal spectrum too.
Think a more balanced spectral power distribution across as many colors (380-720nm) as possible is the way to go for optimising canopy penetration, photomorphagenesis and photosynthesis.

Its a pity your 2.6(μmol/ j) Tasty fixtures aren't still available as I'm sure they would still give a walloping to many of the modern fixtures causing popcorn fluff on lower branches due to neglect of the inverse square law and radiation patterns

 

[Warpedpassage]

Im excited about the bridgelux thrive.....yes, the “efficiency” suck on these (120ish,lm/w) , but hot damn, look at that rich as can be spectrum and the r9 rating over 95!!
The smaller cobs that run from 4w to 20w are already out and only a few bucks a piece. That 4000k looks amazing for a veg light. And maybe flower too.


Bridgelux also has a “high output” line coming out but here is the “thrive”......

 

[PSUAGRO.]

What's up rahz, How's everything going grower?

 

[DankaDank]

Im excited about the bridgelux thrive.....yes, the “efficiency” suck on these (120ish,lm/w) , but hot damn, look at that rich as can be spectrum and the r9 rating over 95!!
The smaller cobs that run from 4w to 20w are already out and only a few bucks a piece. That 4000k looks amazing for a veg light. And maybe flower too.


Bridgelux also has a “high output” line coming out but here is the “thrive”......

Dam sexy spd's especially the 5k, never seen a graph like it. wonder how that cyan will affect the growth. What are these high output chips you speak of? Cant find anything on them.

 

[Rahz]

What's up rahz, How's everything going grower?

Hey PSUAGRO, I'm doing well thanks. Haven't been tinkering with lamps, but have been playing around with micro pumps in my grow buckets. Finally have a RDWC setup that I'm happy with. Hope you've been good.

 

[Warpedpassage]

Dam sexy spd's especially the 5k, never seen a graph like it. wonder how that cyan will affect the growth. What are these high output chips you speak of? Cant find anything on them.

High output (strips) datasheet, yet to be released........

https://www.bridgelux.com/sites/default/files/resource_media/DS134%20Bridgelux%20EB%20Series%20Gen3%20High%20Output%20Data%20Sheet%2020200612%20Rev%20A.pdf

 

[Rocket Soul]

Hey Rahz, glad to see you back and hope for all your fam and people.being safe in these times. Im glad everytime i see an oldtimer face pop back up, thanks for knowledge backn in the day.
I havent looked at cobs for ages tbh.
Thrive seems to follow a pattern of adding more violets in the mix. Ive done some back of the hand calculations and 120lum/w would around 2.2ppf/w, similar to blux Vestas (the first readily available and cost effective 90cri midpowers) which we had a few good grows with.
If youre not averse too buying boards you couuld check outt @Grow Lights Australia s High Lights or their new upcoming boards tbd.

The added 430ish nm and even lower have been seen to both increase potency by but also work really well on transpiration, prying open those often tight legged stomatas.

 

[Grow Lights Australia]

I'm aware of them... very nice lamps!

I guess what I'm asking is, has the efficiency of Bridgelux, Samsung, Citizen advanced over the last year? I know I can build 60% efficient lamps underdriving the 1825s I have from a few years ago. I'm wondering if higher efficiencies have been achieved in the last year or two.

I just noticed there's a Vero version 8 now. I checked the product sims and they don't seem any more efficient than v7s. But I remember running v7s Vero29C 3000K/90CRI at 45w each for 56% efficiency. Now it seems they are running at 56% efficiency at 69 watts (1050ma) and 62% efficient at 700ma (45w). That's huge! That basically puts them on par with Citizen 1825s for less money.

Unless Citizen has improved their specs in the last couple years? and what diodes are the boards running these days? Ugh, I'll probably be looking at datasheets for the next day or two.

We have some 60% efficient lamps coming out soon. These new boards are going to surprise a lot of people, I think. They have been designed in collaboration with LED Teknik here in Australia and we have done a lot of real-world testing on LEDs and conformal coatings to get to this point. These are not for budget growers looking to build cheap strips, but they do have a lot of features and we have designed them to be customisable in terms of spectrum for different crops. Waterproofing, custom spectra, high efficiency and high CRI are all features required by commercial crop growers, which is where we are aiming future development. This is our cannabis spectrum for alround flower and veg.

Oh, it is also completely plug-and-play and comes with its own waterproof cable and loom system. We don't know of any other boards that use waterproof SMD connectors on the boards like we do. As I said, there are a lot of nice features, including some custom LEDs you can't buy aywhere else.

What I will say is that it was very difficult to get 3 umol/j efficiency with a "true" full spectrum with added Far Red and UV as well as high CRI (which is important for monitoring plant health). The conformal coated version of this board is about 1-2% less efficient (depending on coating thickness and waterproofing requirements).

 

[Humple]

We have some 60% efficient lamps coming out soon. These new boards are going to surprise a lot of people, I think. They have been designed in collaboration with LED Teknik here in Australia and we have done a lot of real-world testing on LEDs and conformal coatings to get to this point. These are not for budget growers looking to build cheap strips, but they do have a lot of features and we have designed them to be customisable in terms of spectrum for different crops. Waterproofing, custom spectra, high efficiency and high CRI are all features required by commercial crop growers, which is where we are aiming future development. This is our cannabis spectrum for alround flower and veg.

Oh, it is also completely plug-and-play and comes with its own waterproof cable and loom system. We don't know of any other boards that use waterproof SMD connectors on the boards like we do. As I said, there are a lot of nice features, including some custom LEDs you can't buy aywhere else.

What I will say is that it was very difficult to get 3 umol/j efficiency with a "true" full spectrum with added Far Red and UV as well as high CRI (which is important for monitoring plant health). The conformal coated version of this board is about 1-2% less efficient (depending on coating thickness and waterproofing requirements).

View attachment 4697353

View attachment 4697354

Sexy. Will individual boards be available for DIY'ers?

 

[PSUAGRO.]

That's a great board GLA...... Interesting that the conformal only knocks it 1%, found some special sauce...

Can you share the defect rate on the batches since release? And will you have a distributor/rma center coming stateside ?

 

[Grow Lights Australia]

Sexy. Will individual boards be available for DIY'ers?

Sure will. We'll also sell cables and connectors, as you'll need to use the right connector to power the boards. Or you can buy them from other vendors if you wish. They are TE SlimSeal connectors.

 

[Grow Lights Australia]

That's a great board GLA...... Interesting that the conformal only knocks it 1%, found some special sauce...

Can you share the defect rate on the batches since release? And will you have a distributor/rma center coming stateside ?

So far there have been no board failures with the original High Lights. We had a single LED failure in a board that went to the US, which we replaced (including return shipping) and two single LED failures in boards sent to the UK which were repaired by DIYLEDUK with replacement LEDs. At least one of the failures was deemed to be impact damage which may have been user error. One of the features of the High Light boards is that they can sustain multiple LED failures in the open or closed position and the remaining LED string will still operate, so it won't interupt a grow before a replacement is sent.

We have no distributor in the US and no plans for an RMA centre at this stage. We're not big enough, and the more middlemen there are the more expensive the boards would be. We do ship a good number of boards to the US and many more to Europe, but we work on the philosphy that if something is built right it shouldn't need to be replaced.

We did a lot of testing of various types and brands of conformal coatings and found one which ticked all the boxes. You'll forgive me if I don't go into more detail as it was a lot of work and it's not something we wish to share with other manufacturers at this stage. But you can see it works. The new boards will not be advertised as waterproof, as they are not designed to be immersed in water, but they will certainly be splash-proof (and I dare say more splash-proof than many others on the market). We also have the option of customising the coating for commercial operators who use automated sprinklers and need better protection for a small light penalty.

 

[grotbags]

 

[Humple]

Sure will. We'll also sell cables and connectors, as you'll need to use the right connector to power the boards. Or you can buy them from other vendors if you wish. They are TE SlimSeal connectors.

Nice. I recently noticed (and was intrigued by) BudgetLED's new Series 3+ Full Spec, with added 660, 730, 470, and 385 UVA. Then I noticed (and was turned off by) the lack of a DIY option. Very cool to see you guys continuing to support builders.

I kind of expected HLG to have released a "full spec" QB by now, actually. I know the debate on efficiency vs. spectrum rages on, but buyers are clearly in the market for more colors. Glad to see GLA responding - you guys are rocking it.