January 6th, 2021

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
I simply cannot understand why anybody voted for Trump, which makes 74 or 75 million that are alien to me
i'm with you on that. i dont' get it either.
unless we really have that many racists/misogynists/etc. that love how he wants us to go "back to the good old days".

i gave people a pass that voted for trump over hillary. i didn't care for her much too. but to vote a 2nd time, they don't get a pass anymore.
 

printer

Well-Known Member
74 or 75 million people voted for Trump. Republicans down ticket did better than expected given that result. I was shocked to see those results. I don't know how else to interpret those results other than this country is a lot more weird than I expected and not in a good way. I mean, inject bleach? Use strong arm tactics on the Ukranian PM by witholding funds slated to protect US national security to extort personal favors? Puts kids in cages while sending parents to locations unknown?

I simply cannot understand why anybody voted for Trump, which makes 74 or 75 million that are alien to me.

I'm OK with only people who care to vote, voting. Its a shame that so many aren't voting. Makes me think that things are all that bad because 120 million people can't find the time or energy to do it. Some were prevented through voter suppression laws but not that many.
A lot can be just regular Republicans that would vote that and hold their nose in the process. After all, the alternative is to vote for changing the US into a socialistic state. Or so the story goes.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
74 or 75 million people voted for Trump. Republicans down ticket did better than expected given that result. I was shocked to see those results. I don't know how else to interpret those results other than this country is a lot more weird than I expected and not in a good way. I mean, inject bleach? Use strong arm tactics on the Ukranian PM by witholding funds slated to protect US national security to extort personal favors? Puts kids in cages while sending parents to locations unknown?

I simply cannot understand why anybody voted for Trump, which makes 74 or 75 million that are alien to me.

I'm OK with only people who care to vote, voting. Its a shame that so many aren't voting. Makes me think that things are all that bad because 120 million people can't find the time or energy to do it. Some were prevented through voter suppression laws but not that many.
The trick is to understand that many of those people are so brainwashed that (Using bullshit 'guesstimates' to just think this through):

1. What 76million people voted for Trump,

2. About .49 of Republicans expect Trump to be POTUS next year.

-Got called away and now can't remember what the hell I was talking about.

(I was looking up numbers and found this Post article with some interesting numbers of the people who believe that Bush stole the election through fraud in 2004 and Obama did in 2012 is estimated to be about 23% each (I would assume it is the same people (or at least large overlap) that make up both %).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/12/04/many-republicans-think-election-was-fixed-thats-what-losing-partisans-often-think/
Screen Shot 2020-12-29 at 2.51.46 PM.png

Should observers worry that many Republican voters doubt the legitimacy of the 2020 election?
Certainly polling shows Republicans are skeptical about the election results, and at a level that seems startling. A Nov. 13-17 Reuters/Ipsos poll found that 68 percent of Republicans (+/-5) say that the 2020 presidential election was rigged. A Monmouth poll carried out between Nov. 12 and Nov. 16 finds that 61 percent of Republicans (+/-3.5) are “not at all confident” that the election was fair and accurate.

But none of this is unique to 2020. Many members of the losing party have questioned the outcome of earlier elections, too. That’s what my research team found after the 2012 election.

Partisans think previous elections were stolen, too

In December 2012, after President Barack Obama’s reelection, my research team at Fairleigh Dickinson University conducted a national random-digit-dial telephone poll of 814 registered voters asking Americans whether various conspiracy theories were plausible — for instance, whether President George W. Bush knew about the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks in advance, whether Obama might have been born in Kenya or whether the 2004 and 2012 presidential elections could have been stolen. Overall, 23 percent (with a 3.4-point margin of error) said that it was “probably true” that Bush supporters won the 2004 election through fraud in Ohio. Twenty percent said the same about Obama supporters committing significant voter fraud in 2012.

As in this year’s surveys, these beliefs were linked closely with partisanship. Thirty-seven percent of Democrats said that Bush stole Ohio in 2004, and 36 percent of Republicans said the same about the 2012 election. Single-digit percentages of partisans said that their own party stole the election they won. What’s more, fully 20 percent or more of respondents said they were unsure whether one or both elections had been stolen.

About 30 percent of Republicans said they were sure the 2012 election was legitimate — about the same as the percent who say they’re confident about this year’s election. What’s new seems to be Republicans’ shift from not being sure either way to being sure about fraud.

The 2012 election was already marred by the birther smear against Obama, and there were allegations about fraud in 2004, but this partisan difference also shows up in earlier elections that weren’t terribly controversial. There were no serious allegations of fraud in the 1996 matchup between Bill Clinton and Bob Dole, but in data from the American National Election Studies, 23 percent of Americans said that the election was “unfair,” including a much greater number of Republicans than Democrats.

Despite the 2020 election results, you can still trust polling. Mostly.

It’s not just lack of knowledge

To some extent, these responses are driven by ignorance. In general, we found that higher levels of political knowledge correlate with a lower likelihood of believing conspiracy theories are about “probably true.” The less people know about politics, the more plausible anything seems.
If higher levels of political knowledge are correlated with a lower likelihood of false beliefs, then it should be possible to educate citizens enough to eliminate conspiracy theories. Simply give people good information and false beliefs will go away.

But more information isn’t likely to change determined partisans’ minds. Political psychology research has revealed a phenomenon known as “motivated reasoning,” in which people process information not to reach an objectively correct conclusion, but to bolster what they already believe.
They absorb and retain information that supports those beliefs, while avoiding, misremembering or simply forgetting contrary evidence. What’s more, some researchers have recently offered what’s called the “hot cognition hypothesis,” theorizing that when we care deeply about something, motivated reasoning is endemic to information processing — we can’t turn it off even if we want to.

Partisans may well be motivated to believe that their candidate won the election, leading them to seek out information confirming that belief while discounting disconsonant information. Under these conditions, more knowledge won’t change their minds — and may even backfire. After all, who knows more about the events of 9/11 than a 9/11 truther, even if their interpretation of that information may be completely false?

When Twitter fact-checks Trump’s tweets, it polarizes Americans even more, our research finds

Sometimes, more knowledge is actually a bad thing

Although more political knowledge generally correlates with less likelihood of saying that a political conspiracy theory is true, there is an exception: Republicans with more political knowledge were significantly more likely to believe that Democrats stole the 2012 election. Controlling for factors like education and race, among Republicans who answered all four political knowledge questions incorrectly, only 30 percent said Obama had stolen the 2012 election. Among those who answered all four political knowledge questions correctly, 40 percent did.

Of course, for many people, including birther Donald Trump, the election of the first Black president was also charged, so 2012 may have been a preview of this year’s attitudes, reflecting our new and highly polarized electorate. But what’s striking is the consistency of the belief, going back to 1996, an election that had no such shadow over it.

Motivated reasoning has been around as long as partisan politics, and surely before. What’s new is that a large proportion of Republicans say they’re convinced of fraud. Why did the proportion increase?

The WNBA influenced the Georgia Senate race, new research finds.

Of course, we can’t be certain without more research. But one difference from the past is the self-enclosed loop of partisan news. Social media sites, conservative radio, professional conspiracy theorists and even cable news outlets report nonstop on allegations of fraud and corruption in the election to a partisan audience. That may be convincing formerly uncertain voters that this election was stolen.
Basically I think I was going at there are a lot of brainwashed people that believe some messed up shit.
 

Attachments

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
A lot can be just regular Republicans that would vote that and hold their nose in the process. After all, the alternative is to vote for changing the US into a socialistic state. Or so the story goes.
like I said we have a lot more weird people than I thought.

I've heard that there was a similar reaction to when Nixon won the presidency the first time. He was chair of the House UnAmerican Activities Committee and a McCarthy drone. Anyone remember that?
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
The trick is to understand that many of those people are so brainwashed that (Using bullshit 'guesstimates' to just think this through):

1. What 76million people voted for Trump,

2. About .49 of Republicans expect Trump to be POTUS next year.

-Got called away and now can't remember what the hell I was talking about.

(I was looking up numbers and found this Post article with some interesting numbers of the people who believe that Bush stole the election through fraud in 2004 and Obama did in 2012 is estimated to be about 23% each (I would assume it is the same people (or at least large overlap) that make up both %).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/12/04/many-republicans-think-election-was-fixed-thats-what-losing-partisans-often-think/
View attachment 4781207
I haven't gotten the trick. Like the Jitterbug, it eludes me.
 

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
The trick is to understand that many of those people are so brainwashed that (Using bullshit 'guesstimates' to just think this through):

1. What 76million people voted for Trump,

2. About .49 of Republicans expect Trump to be POTUS next year.

-Got called away and now can't remember what the hell I was talking about.

(I was looking up numbers and found this Post article with some interesting numbers of the people who believe that Bush stole the election through fraud in 2004 and Obama did in 2012 is estimated to be about 23% each (I would assume it is the same people (or at least large overlap) that make up both %).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/12/04/many-republicans-think-election-was-fixed-thats-what-losing-partisans-often-think/
View attachment 4781207



Basically I think I was going at there are a lot of brainwashed people that believe some messed up shit.
if the election was rigged or stolen, the GOP was in charge at the time. how do these people not see that? they can only blame themselves. if it were true, of course
 

mogie

Well-Known Member
We had to choose from someone with a big ego or someone who wants to give money to people that don't work. I choose the dude with the ego as that was the lesser of two evils.
But I live in Oregon and watched as Black Lives Matter and Antifa burned down the biggest city in my state. Gov. Brown told the police to stand down and not enforce the law. It was sad to see political correctness over ride protecting people and their property.
The saddest thing I saw was a transgender woman attacked my a "person" wearing a black lives matter security vest. If you don't believe me there was video of the entire incident.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
I haven't gotten the trick. Like the Jitterbug, it eludes me.
It is tough. Like I said before (stole from someone else), it is much easier to think of it in a series of partial differential equations.

We had to choose from someone with a big ego or someone who wants to give money to people that don't work. I choose the dude with the ego as that was the lesser of two evils.
But I live in Oregon and watched as Black Lives Matter and Antifa burned down the biggest city in my state. Gov. Brown told the police to stand down and not enforce the law. It was sad to see political correctness over ride protecting people and their property.
The saddest thing I saw was a transgender woman attacked my a "person" wearing a black lives matter security vest. If you don't believe me there was video of the entire incident.
Do you personally know anyone in "ANTIFA"?
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
The trick is to understand that many of those people are so brainwashed that (Using bullshit 'guesstimates' to just think this through):

1. What 76million people voted for Trump,

2. About .49 of Republicans expect Trump to be POTUS next year.

-Got called away and now can't remember what the hell I was talking about.

(I was looking up numbers and found this Post article with some interesting numbers of the people who believe that Bush stole the election through fraud in 2004 and Obama did in 2012 is estimated to be about 23% each (I would assume it is the same people (or at least large overlap) that make up both %).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/12/04/many-republicans-think-election-was-fixed-thats-what-losing-partisans-often-think/
View attachment 4781207



Basically I think I was going at there are a lot of brainwashed people that believe some messed up shit.
Ok, so these people were brainwashed into grasping at the most anti-democratic of straws. What are we supposed to do with that information?

These brainwashed people are pushing for this:

Louie Gohmert sues Pence in far-fetched bid to overturn election results on Jan. 6

From an opinion piece on the subject at CNN:

"On Monday, Texas Republican Rep. Louie Gohmert sued Vice President Mike Pence in federal court in a, um, wacky attempt to transform the vice president's purely ceremonial role in presiding over the announcement of the Electoral College results in Congress into a power broker position in which the VP could effectively hand the election to President Donald Trump.

"We continue to hold out hope that there is a federal judge who understands that the fraud that stole this election will mean the end of our republic, and this suit would insure that the Vice-President will only accept electors legitimately and legally elected," Gohmert said in a statement on Monday. "There must be an opportunity for a day in court when fraud was this prevalent."

It's probably worth noting here that there has yet to be any proof of the widespread fraud


for the sake of argument, let's assume that Gohmert is successful. And rather than just playing the ceremonial role of president of the Senate on January 6, Pence was empowered to choose which electors are "legal," which, I suppose, would exclude the electors from states where President-elect Joe Biden won but Trump has falsely suggested there was fraud, like Arizona and Georgia and Pennsylvania.

By doing so, Pence would single-handedly install Trump as president for the next four years. And would set a precedent that the vice president would retain the power to choose the president going forward -- no matter what the actual popular vote or Electoral College looked like."


These people are pushing for the end of our system to elect the President as described in the Constitution. The Tea Party movement has gone from "restore the Constitution" to "the Constitution is irrelevant". So, assuming I learn the trick, what do I do with that knowledge?
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Do you personally know anyone in "ANTIFA"?
My soon-to-be year on Covid Island has reduced the number of people I can say I'm close to. I've met and talked with them at counter protests but there aren't any in my shrinking list of personal contacts. Then again, I don't live in Portland and Antifa aren't all that active in the suburbs.

Why?
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
Ok, so these people were brainwashed into grasping at the most anti-democratic of straws. What are we supposed to do with that information?

These brainwashed people are pushing for this:

Louie Gohmert sues Pence in far-fetched bid to overturn election results on Jan. 6

From an opinion piece on the subject at CNN:

"On Monday, Texas Republican Rep. Louie Gohmert sued Vice President Mike Pence in federal court in a, um, wacky attempt to transform the vice president's purely ceremonial role in presiding over the announcement of the Electoral College results in Congress into a power broker position in which the VP could effectively hand the election to President Donald Trump.

"We continue to hold out hope that there is a federal judge who understands that the fraud that stole this election will mean the end of our republic, and this suit would insure that the Vice-President will only accept electors legitimately and legally elected," Gohmert said in a statement on Monday. "There must be an opportunity for a day in court when fraud was this prevalent."

It's probably worth noting here that there has yet to be any proof of the widespread fraud


for the sake of argument, let's assume that Gohmert is successful. And rather than just playing the ceremonial role of president of the Senate on January 6, Pence was empowered to choose which electors are "legal," which, I suppose, would exclude the electors from states where President-elect Joe Biden won but Trump has falsely suggested there was fraud, like Arizona and Georgia and Pennsylvania.

By doing so, Pence would single-handedly install Trump as president for the next four years. And would set a precedent that the vice president would retain the power to choose the president going forward -- no matter what the actual popular vote or Electoral College looked like."


These people are pushing for the end of our system to elect the President as described in the Constitution. The Tea Party movement has gone from "restore the Constitution" to "the Constitution is irrelevant". So, assuming I learn the trick, what do I do with that knowledge?
That about half of the people brainwashed enough, only about 12% or so of our nation are radicalized to think that is the right thing.

My soon-to-be year on Covid Island has reduced the number of people I can say I'm close to. I've met and talked with them at counter protests but there aren't any in my shrinking list of personal contacts. Then again, I don't live in Portland and Antifa aren't all that active in the suburbs.

Why?
That dude was saying how Antifa and BLM are to blame for everything, towing the Trump propaganda line.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/january-6th-2021.1041453/post-16034268

If he actually knew 'ANTIFA', I was going to suggest he talk with them and see whats up form directly the source.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
We had to choose from someone with a big ego or someone who wants to give money to people that don't work. I choose the dude with the ego as that was the lesser of two evils.
But I live in Oregon and watched as Black Lives Matter and Antifa burned down the biggest city in my state. Gov. Brown told the police to stand down and not enforce the law. It was sad to see political correctness over ride protecting people and their property.
The saddest thing I saw was a transgender woman attacked my a "person" wearing a black lives matter security vest. If you don't believe me there was video of the entire incident.
I live in Oregon too. Like Trumpers who claim election fraud, you are making claims that aren't true if one looks at the facts.

Show me photos of this "burned down" Portland. Not just a few buildings with some broken windows but actually total losses due to getting "burned down". Even the Police Union building is still standing last I saw.

Agree that the violence that Trump brought to our state's largest city is unacceptable. Agree that the violence arising from protesting against police brutality is unacceptable. That's what Kate Brown said, when it became clear that Wheeler had lost control of his police force and they turned their backs to the rioting Proud Boys while beating people who were defending us from them. What she did was make sure everybody, including the Portland police, who are the worst offenders in perpetuating violence, was put on notice that any acts of violence would be investigated by State Police.

It's a contradiction. Police are committing brutal acts of violence to stop people from protesting against police brutality. Its every bit as contradictory as Republicans saying they want to overturn our election in order to save democracy.

You guys are weird.
 
Last edited:

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
I still don't know what to do with that information. They are Nazis. One doesn't appease Nazis. Doesn't matter how they got there. History shows that appeasing radical authoritarians results in more extravagant demands.
There are so many flavors of crazy to discount 36 million or so people.

Just off the top of my head:
1. Abortion, once you can convince people that Democrats murder babies getting them to vote in a dictator seems pretty easy.

2. Racism, Democrats representing 100% of the nation's citizens is a non starter for them.

3. Religion (this has many sub categories of pro/anti 'them' status like jewish/muslim/non-belivers) being taught in schools, since we are in end times, who cares about global warming or Covid.

4. 'They all suck, but at least Trump is my kind of asshole'. Because nothing says owning the libs like losing your healthcare because you had really bad cramps once and went to the hospital.

5. Always voted Republican and 'heard' that both sides suck.

6. Love MMA and got sucked into the void of Qanan and conspiracy theories through Joe Rogan.

7. Listen to Fox exclusively and never been exposed to what Trump has actually been doing with the Russian military.

on and on.

A few million nudged into a bubble here and there (since all 330 million people are constantly under surveillance/sorting algorithms) and finding 12% of so of a population to radicalize seems pretty right on if they were going to have to choose one of 2 options.
 
Top