PizzaMan5000
Well-Known Member
Well I can say that it's tough to grow plants with tap water coming out of the faucet at 1,400ppm.
Modified Jacks 321 schedule
- Thread starter TerpHound420
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jonnynobody
Well-Known Member
I'd like to share a terrible story you can all enjoy at my expense. See those gorgeous pictures I posted up there? Running on jack's looking great at 3g/gallon 5-12-26 and 2.4g/gallon calcium nitrate. How could a gardener possibly bone up a gravy train like that? Start playing with the mix even though the plants look great. Instead of running the same 3g/jack's and 2.4g calcium nitrate I increased the calcium nitrate to 3g/gallon. This raised the PPM of the reservoir by 150 from 700 to 850, a substantial increase in concentration. Within 6 hours all of my plants throughout the garden were showing signs of over fertilization. New growth was starting to shrivel and twist particularly in the flower room under the high powered LED boards. Operator error completely. No fault of jack's. The company does not recommend a 1:1 ratio. Now I see why
Anyhow, I observed this at 11:30 last night as I did a final check before bed. I immediately realized I erred in changing the mix and I had a choice to make. Either go to bed and let the damage continue all night into the next morning or fix the problem. I chose to fix the problem. Dumped the 15 gallons left in the res. Rinsed. Cleaned. Began refilling with RO water. Mixed up a fresh batch of fertilizer. I was panicked by my error and feeling really down on myself so I mixed up some maxi grow to get my girls back on track out of familiarity. I'll be preparing another res of jack's today at 3g jack's and 2g calcium nitrate. I'll run this mix on my nurseries. If everything looks good in 48 hours I'll get the big girls back on the 5-12-26. There are quite a few guys on ICMAG that run straight 600PPM Jack's start to finish. 360PPM jack's and 240PPM calcium nitrate. If the plants are healthy and display no deficiencies why not? Watered thoroughly all areas to flush out the excess calcium nitrate. Evacuated the drip trays. Long story short I didn't get to bed until 4. Today I woke up and checked all my plants. Everything is back to healthy. My second RO res is almost full. Going to mix up a fresh batch of jack's. Today I will be making stock solutions of Jack's 5-12-26 and calcium nitrate. Instead of mixing by weight I will be mixing by PPM moving forward while maintaining the recommended Jack's to calcium nitrate ratio of 1:.67. In a nutshell it seems like Jack's keeps the girls happy at a much lower PPM / EC than GH maxi. If I try to run Jack's at the same PPM / EC I ran maxi at the plants burn.
cobshopgrow
Well-Known Member
can imagine with the EC youre running its hard to dial in.I'd like to share a terrible story you can all enjoy at my expense. See those gorgeous pictures I posted up there? Running on jack's looking great at 3g/gallon 5-12-26 and 2.4g/gallon calcium nitrate. How could a gardener possibly bone up a gravy train like that? Start playing with the mix even though the plants look great. Instead of running the same 3g/jack's and 2.4g calcium nitrate I increased the calcium nitrate to 3g/gallon. This raised the PPM of the reservoir by 150 from 700 to 850, a substantial increase in concentration. Within 6 hours all of my plants throughout the garden were showing signs of over fertilization. New growth was starting to shrivel and twist particularly in the flower room under the high powered LED boards. Operator error completely. No fault of jack's. The company does not recommend a 1:1 ratio. Now I see why
my magic number for cal nitrate is 2.3g a gallon cal nitrate and about the same or lil less from the basesalt.
at 2.7g a gallon i also encountered problems.
they normally dont need tons of P or K at this stage.
depends a bit what the fertilizer is made for and especially how many micros it contains, some basesalts are made to be mixed up 2:1 ca nitrate to basesalt, while i would never consdering this...
in the stage your plants are i give not more then 600 to 650ppm (0.5 scale, EC 1.2-1.3).
megacrop have a nice calculator and pretty sane recommendations, at least ratio wise a good start.
for their 5-12-26 /cal nitrate 2-part fert
clearly less basesalt recnommended then cal nitrate in veg.
PJ Diaz
Well-Known Member
No epsom?I'd like to share a terrible story you can all enjoy at my expense. See those gorgeous pictures I posted up there? Running on jack's looking great at 3g/gallon 5-12-26 and 2.4g/gallon calcium nitrate. How could a gardener possibly bone up a gravy train like that? Start playing with the mix even though the plants look great. Instead of running the same 3g/jack's and 2.4g calcium nitrate I increased the calcium nitrate to 3g/gallon. This raised the PPM of the reservoir by 150 from 700 to 850, a substantial increase in concentration. Within 6 hours all of my plants throughout the garden were showing signs of over fertilization. New growth was starting to shrivel and twist particularly in the flower room under the high powered LED boards. Operator error completely. No fault of jack's. The company does not recommend a 1:1 ratio. Now I see why
jonnynobody
Well-Known Member
I'm reconsidering adding epsom. I think the issues I experienced were unrelated to the addition of epsom salt in the mix. I think the concentration of Jack's and calcium nitrate was too high. I don't have a science based reason for omitting the epsom salt at this point and think it may have been short sighted. I'm about to mix my 32 gallon res now with Jack's. 3g jacks, 2.4g calnit, 1.1g epsom. I expect an EC of about 1.6-1.7. I've gotta water the babies today right after mixing. I'll report back tomorrow how the plants are doing
cobshopgrow
Well-Known Member
for jacks some epsom should be needed (32....1), the megacrop 2 part have 6% in it allready (more then jacks).
jonnynobody
Well-Known Member
Negative ghostrider. Jack's 5-12-26 has 6.3% magnesium sulfate. I'm on RO water so the extra mag in epsom salt is probably useful. If I was on tap probably not.
cobshopgrow
Well-Known Member
ah ok, then its the same mg content as megacrop.
still jacks itself say use 1 part epsom to 3 parts basesalt, 321,
in perlite hempys you prob need way less then cocos users and get away without it maybe.
anyway, as you see the megacrop is basically relabeled jacks and they simply give good ratio recommendations for healthy plants.
tyour Ec is too high for my view.
still jacks itself say use 1 part epsom to 3 parts basesalt, 321,
in perlite hempys you prob need way less then cocos users and get away without it maybe.
anyway, as you see the megacrop is basically relabeled jacks and they simply give good ratio recommendations for healthy plants.
tyour Ec is too high for my view.
jonnynobody
Well-Known Member
It was most certainly operator error on my part. Jack's recommends 1:.67 ratio of jack's to calcium nitrate. I screwed the pooch by doing a 1:1 ratio. No good.
You are correct ghostrider.
I just wasted 2# of 5-12-26. Apparently this is get kicked in the ding ding day for jonny. The pot I used to warm the RO water for my 1 gallon of stock solution had a peeling finish. After mixing it all up I noticed black particles in the foam after pouring it out of the blender. Then I looked at the pot. Motherfucker. 2# down the drain. Let this be a lesson to the rest of you making stock solutions. Make sure your pot is clean and the finish is not peeling or it will contaminate your stock solution. Seems like simple logic, right? Trust me when you're on the fly it's just something you may not consider until you're dumping 2# of jack's down the drain. I am ordering a stock pot just for mixing my stock solution with a nice robust finish for years of reliable service. I immediately tossed the bad pot out along with the contaminated stock solution. It's the little things like this that'll bone ya. Live and learn eh? Fuck myself. I'm gonna pop 6 hash caps so I drift into a state of blissful confusion for 5 or 6 hours. God knows I want to forget this incident as quickly as possible
In the end I had a smaller pot with a good finish to make 2 quarts of 5-12-26 stock solution. It's chilling in the fridge right now so I can bottle it. I'm using a clean dish soap container. Super thick plastic with a perfect cap for squirting solution into a reservoir with convenience. I'm about to make 2 quarts of calcium nitrate now. I'll be bottling it into a soda bottle until I have another empty soap container. What a day what a day.
Hot Diggity Sog
Well-Known Member
I never question anything you say but I have had the opposite experience. Maybe it depends a lot on what we all choose to feed with. But in my experience, more than 1.5 EC in coco starts to cause problems and more than 0.9 EC in RDWC is the same. Just my experience.
cobshopgrow
Well-Known Member
on point.
bugbee is recommending an ec of 1 to 1.5 and i think for most of us this is a good value.
otherwise i also most always think renfro is on point and you feel the decades experience breathing, but he is probably really growing trees and we do just field crops.
@jonnynobody, you will have that dialed in soon, your plants lookin good.
i really just say from own experience, part A is needed less in veg and a good way to lower your overall EC is skipping a bit on part A.
also encountered plants can get too much calcium nitrate some can take it better some not.
@TintEastwood you made such nice charts, i know theyre targeting cocos, but as far i remember youre using similar sane ratios as megacrop does.
bugbee is recommending an ec of 1 to 1.5 and i think for most of us this is a good value.
otherwise i also most always think renfro is on point and you feel the decades experience breathing, but he is probably really growing trees and we do just field crops.
@jonnynobody, you will have that dialed in soon, your plants lookin good.
i really just say from own experience, part A is needed less in veg and a good way to lower your overall EC is skipping a bit on part A.
also encountered plants can get too much calcium nitrate some can take it better some not.
@TintEastwood you made such nice charts, i know theyre targeting cocos, but as far i remember youre using similar sane ratios as megacrop does.
PJ Diaz
Well-Known Member
If you aren't adding Epsom, then your 1.6EC feed is quite a bit higher in N than a 1.6EC feed with Epsom would be.I'm reconsidering adding epsom. I think the issues I experienced were unrelated to the addition of epsom salt in the mix. I think the concentration of Jack's and calcium nitrate was too high. I don't have a science based reason for omitting the epsom salt at this point and think it may have been short sighted. I'm about to mix my 32 gallon res now with Jack's. 3g jacks, 2.4g calnit, 1.1g epsom. I expect an EC of about 1.6-1.7. I've gotta water the babies today right after mixing. I'll report back tomorrow how the plants are doing
PJ Diaz
Well-Known Member
You are missing out on a lot of sulfur by not adding epsom.
jonnynobody
Well-Known Member
Jack's contains 6.3% magnesium sulfate which is beautiful. I think that's why some gardeners omit the epsom. The 5-12-26 is already loaded with it, but I'm also on RO water. I will add 1g/gallon. My target EC is 1.6. It sure seems like most gardeners running jack's stick between 1.2-1.6. As a matter of fact there are many gardeners on ICMAG that run 600PPM start to finish with excellent results. It seems like Jack's really packs more of a punch than the maxi I was using. To get satisfactory results I had to run maxi at 800-850 consistently. That only makes Jack's last even longer making it an even greater value. Got some pics I'm gonna post from making my stock solution. Had some residue from the 5-12-26. Wondering if any of you have seen the same. Nothing major. I filtered it to eliminate any minor residue I observed to keep the stock solution pure with no particles. The water wasn't boiling, but it was close. That may have caused some elemental interaction. I'll only gently warm the water next time I make stock solutions. Gimme a few. I'll be back.
cobshopgrow
Well-Known Member
i dont need boiling water to dissolve my salts completly (usig hakaphos made for drip irrigation), cant comment there.
used maxigrow too (one bag), it worked but it clumps and dont dissolve good in cold water.
used maxigrow too (one bag), it worked but it clumps and dont dissolve good in cold water.
Hollatchaboy
Well-Known Member
Indicas need a lil lower feed iirc.
TintEastwood
Well-Known Member
Helps to see affect of epsom per gram.
Hope it's of some help.
jonnynobody
Well-Known Member
I'm making stock solutions. Mixing 2# of fertilizer in 128oz of cold water isn't a good game plan if you ever want to finish the process.
cobshopgrow
Well-Known Member
its a matter of the fertilizer, i asure you mine disolve a 100% in 18c cold water, np, even a stock solution should work.
but i have no jacks, there will be differences for sure., my maxibloom really sucked in this regard.
Description
Hakaphos® is a fast and completely water soluble fertilizer for fruit crops, vegetable crops and other intensive crops. It is free of chlorine and urea with fully EDTA-chelated trace elements. A superior quality is guaranteed due to specific grinding technique as well as highest quality of raw materials.
Benefits
too lazy to make a vid, its a matter of minutes steering in cold water.
should work up to 10% stock solutions this way according to the manufactorer, bayer.
but i have no jacks, there will be differences for sure., my maxibloom really sucked in this regard.
Description
Hakaphos® is a fast and completely water soluble fertilizer for fruit crops, vegetable crops and other intensive crops. It is free of chlorine and urea with fully EDTA-chelated trace elements. A superior quality is guaranteed due to specific grinding technique as well as highest quality of raw materials.
Benefits
- Fast and complete water solubility
- Homogeneous high-quality products
- With chelated micronutrients added
- Labour-saving ready-to-use products
- Wide product range for optimal crop management
- Formulations adapted to each stage of crop development
too lazy to make a vid, its a matter of minutes steering in cold water.
should work up to 10% stock solutions this way according to the manufactorer, bayer.
Last edited:
PJ Diaz
Well-Known Member
Try 320g in that volume instead.