Yellow Tops on my Blue Dreamz

[Stoney Bear94]

Hi All, I mixed up my own soil - all organic for this most recent grow.

used some FFHF, kelp, neem, oyster shell, dolomite, lava rock, compost,EWC, and put some red wiggle

the plants were growin real good - looking healthy as Hayl. Recently, the tops started lookin pretty yellow and a little less healthy than they had been the whole time. They are about 11 weeks of veg - I’ve mainlined and topped them each 5 times so I have 32 tops each.

I have 2 plants growing in 30 gallons in a bed indoors.

I recently did a little slurry test on my PH and found it to be about 7.2, which is a little high I know but I thought I didn’t need to worry about PH too much in an organic system. I inoculated with mycho and applied a couple of compost teas early on.

is this a symptom of iron being locked out or some other lockout? I PH my water 6-7 and use just water. I’ve top Dressed with some oyster shell, compost, and neem recently but didn’t feel like I added too much.

 

[Frankly Dankly]

It’s hard to tell with the blurple and flash pics. My blue dream did stupid shit too. I’m over that strain.

 

[Stoney Bear94]

They are just very “yellow” and limey looking, one plant has it worst than the other. I feel like originally the right plant had these symptoms and now the other has it. Possibly the plants are too close together and the roots are battling it out? There’s plenty of soil for 2 plants so figured it wouldn’t be a problem

 

[Richard Drysift]

No reason to ph your water; runoff ph tells you nothing. You need a soil probe to check the actual ph in the root zone but even if runoff was the actual ph 7.2 is in range for full absorption. Most ph issues in organic soil has to do with a lack of microbial activity. Keep giving aacts; you cannot expect the soil to remain highly active without continually adding back compost and teas are most effective way to do it. Top dressing takes time; soluble teas go right to work. I started with a bagged mix too and just keep on recycling and amending it with worm castings, minerals, and fertilizer. It gets better the more times you recycle it. For now consider also giving a safe soluble NPK like liquid fish and continue to give compost teas to maintain activity. I suggest something like Neptune’s harvest w/seaweed once per week and aact every 2-3 weeks on the regular.
Plants are getting light but still quite healthy. Don’t sweat it; just try to keep them healthy and green. Naturally feeding plants take what they need; there’s no deficiencies in 30 gal of soil but your mix could use a boost of microbial population. For bloom phase consider pushing in a few Jobes organic spikes; they feed for 8 weeks. Next time you build a container for long term growth try adding a high N layer of a slow release fertilizer in the bottom. I use chicken manure myself but cow manure or guano are also good options.

 

[GloryB]

Now im a rookie but i have friends that grow They tell me when your plant looks like that its on the right track. stand by. here are my blue dream.

 

[GloryB]

i just took those pics, the water leafs are starting to fall Indicator to needing water in a couple days. Like i said im lucky at best. My biggest mistake was over watering. i think im starting to relax and just watch plant. good luck some way more knowledgeable people here than me. i just thought my pics would give you a comparison. Mine are doing well.

 

[waktoo]

Hi All, I mixed up my own soil - all organic for this most recent grow.

used some FFHF, kelp, neem, oyster shell, dolomite, lava rock, compost,EWC, and put some red wiggle

the plants were growin real good - looking healthy as Hayl. Recently, the tops started lookin pretty yellow and a little less healthy than they had been the whole time. They are about 11 weeks of veg - I’ve mainlined and topped them each 5 times so I have 32 tops each.

I have 2 plants growing in 30 gallons in a bed indoors.

I recently did a little slurry test on my PH and found it to be about 7.2, which is a little high I know but I thought I didn’t need to worry about PH too much in an organic system. I inoculated with mycho and applied a couple of compost teas early on.

is this a symptom of iron being locked out or some other lockout? I PH my water 6-7 and use just water. I’ve top Dressed with some oyster shell, compost, and neem recently but didn’t feel like I added too much.

This paper accurately describes the importance of and proper pH ranges relevant to maximizing available nutrients in an "organic system".

 

[living gardening]

This paper accurately describes the importance of and proper pH ranges relevant to maximizing available nutrients in an "organic system".

I agree, you may have pushed into basic range on the Ph scale in pursuit of Ca.
A plant will make it's Ph when it needs it, unless your soil is messed up.
Too many amendments can cause issues. . .

 

[MustangStudFarm]

Hi All, I mixed up my own soil - all organic for this most recent grow.

used some FFHF, kelp, neem, oyster shell, dolomite, lava rock, compost,EWC, and put some red wiggle

the plants were growin real good - looking healthy as Hayl. Recently, the tops started lookin pretty yellow and a little less healthy than they had been the whole time. They are about 11 weeks of veg - I’ve mainlined and topped them each 5 times so I have 32 tops each.

I have 2 plants growing in 30 gallons in a bed indoors.

I recently did a little slurry test on my PH and found it to be about 7.2, which is a little high I know but I thought I didn’t need to worry about PH too much in an organic system. I inoculated with mycho and applied a couple of compost teas early on.

is this a symptom of iron being locked out or some other lockout? I PH my water 6-7 and use just water. I’ve top Dressed with some oyster shell, compost, and neem recently but didn’t feel like I added too much.

If it's affecting new growth only, it's an immobile nutrient. That will help narrow it down:

 

[MustangStudFarm]

 

[MustangStudFarm]

I recently did a little slurry test on my PH and found it to be about 7.2,

When you start going above 6.5 Ph, you will start locking out micronutrients like iron and manganese(both cause yellowing). 4 things cause yellowing: Magnesium, nitrogen, iron, and manganese. Then, you look at these 4 and compare it to the mobility list that affects new growth and it only leaves you with iron and manganese(not magnesium). I use Fe and Mn sulfate in my water(RO/Rain water). You can find iron and manganese sulfate for cheap, just buy the small bags because it will last forever. This, or you can get your soil tested and not rely on people on here to steer you wrong(it happens too often). I'm willing to put money on it being Fe and Mn because I'm always having to deal with it too. Also, if you are having high Ph issues, you should use gypsum instead of oyster flour. Dolomite lime is only good for Mg. The agronomist that I used suggested that I started using sulfates and that would be Epsom salt instead of dolomite, gypsum instead of oyster flour, Fe sulfate & Mn sulfate instead of rock dust/kelp. A lot of rock dusts are contaminated with heavy metals and they don't provide micronutirents like people suggest. Greensand and basalt is what I am using, but they WILL NOT FIX A DEFICIENCY. Nobody else on here talks about micronutrients, but they also don't get their soil tested...

 

[MustangStudFarm]

Vinegar will lower your Ph, but don't use the fake stuff, use something like brown rice vinegar or apple cider vinegar. I started using apple cider vinegar for a cleanser in my drinks. Kombucha and apple cider vinegar help release toxins in your body, so keeping some around has helped me in that fashion...

 

[Stoney Bear94]

I have some of the "Earth Juice" PH Down. But I feel like it can't be the PH issue because my plants have looked super healthy until now and my watering practices have remained the same. I'm brewing up some compost teas and bought some Liquid Fish, Iron Sulfate, and Manganese Sulfate. I'm gonna give those a try, because they are "weak, yellow tops". which seems to match up with those deficiencies when I research them.

 

[Stoney Bear94]

When you start going above 6.5 Ph, you will start locking out micronutrients like iron and manganese(both cause yellowing). 4 things cause yellowing: Magnesium, nitrogen, iron, and manganese. Then, you look at these 4 and compare it to the mobility list that affects new growth and it only leaves you with iron and manganese(not magnesium). I use Fe and Mn sulfate in my water(RO/Rain water). You can find iron and manganese sulfate for cheap, just buy the small bags because it will last forever. This, or you can get your soil tested and not rely on people on here to steer you wrong(it happens too often). I'm willing to put money on it being Fe and Mn because I'm always having to deal with it too. Also, if you are having high Ph issues, you should use gypsum instead of oyster flour. Dolomite lime is only good for Mg. The agronomist that I used suggested that I started using sulfates and that would be Epsom salt instead of dolomite, gypsum instead of oyster flour, Fe sulfate & Mn sulfate instead of rock dust/kelp. A lot of rock dusts are contaminated with heavy metals and they don't provide micronutirents like people suggest. Greensand and basalt is what I am using, but they WILL NOT FIX A DEFICIENCY. Nobody else on here talks about micronutrients, but they also don't get their soil tested...

so I applied a Compost Tea today fed the girls with it - added some azomite, EWC, compost, and Kelp Meal to the tea so hoping that gives them a little kickstart. Ordered some iron sulfate and Manganese sulfate online - any direction as far as how I should apply those products and in what dosages? Thanks for keeping the Dreamz alive all.

 

[Stoney Bear94]

I agree, you may have pushed into basic range on the Ph scale in pursuit of Ca.
A plant will make it's Ph when it needs it, unless your soil is messed up.
Too many amendments can cause issues. . .

7.2 is a pretty normal PH for organic is it? I thought that a healthy soil system would get itself around 7 or so. But also it seems strange that the symptoms would just start now as the plant is getting massive - also seems questionable that there’s any kind of “deficiency” in my soil as I have loads of it.... too many amendments? Possibly? But don’t think I went too overboard. It’s also affecting one plant more than the other but they in the same soil, which would think very similar PH and access to nutrients. Should I PH my water down some for my next waterings?

 

[Stoney Bear94]

Although 64 tops in a little under a 3x3 tent... should be literally packed if they make it through this. Most the tops look flimsy and weak, long stems. Hope my girls get their strength back so I can flip them soon... they are getting almost TOO big

 

[MustangStudFarm]

. Ordered some iron sulfate and Manganese sulfate online - any direction as far as how I should apply those products and in what dosages?

I apply it in the water because it's such a small amount and Mn sulfate is completely soluble. The Fe suflate might stay rocked up on the bottom of your water container, but if you leave it in there and keep adding water it should be fine. You really don't want to over-dose with micronutrients anyways. If you really want to dial it in, you should get a soil test but it makes more sense if you have a lot of soil that you are working with. Like, it might not make sense to only test a few cubic feet of soil and I usually do a cubic yard when I do it. It's about $50 for soil testing and $40 for an agronomist(very helpful) and they will help with fixing the soil.

If you are dealing with micronutrient deficiency, you will need to foliar feed with Mn and Fe because they are immobile. Adding it to your soil and foliar should be very helpful. Also, if you have humic/fulvic acid, now is the time to use it. It helps make micronutirents more available but it has a stronger affinity with iron than manganese. Iron and manganese are antagonistic with eachother, so raising the value of one will lower the value of the other, so this is a tricky situation that you are getting into. This is why I suggest soil testing too. I mean, you could skip the agronomist and make sure that your saturated paste tests are showing 150ppm of both iron and manganese. The agronomist helped me with the base saturation ratio which is the Ca, Mg, K, Na ratios.

For the foliar spray, use RO/rain water. I use 1 gram per gallon of both Mn and Fe sulfate, so 2 grams/gallon total. I looked up the instructions on TM7, which is similar, and they suggested 6 grams per gallon but it's a mix of all of the micronutirents. I don't like TM7 because you will end up with a toxicity in other micros like boron. I use the same ratio for both foliar and irrigation water, 1G per gallon each and use humic acid. Sorry if I get confusing. It might take 2 weeks to see results, but faster if you foliar. If you are using a pump sprayer, you might want to filter so Fe sulfate don't clog the sprayer. Same if you use ground up humic acid instead of liquid like FulPower.

 

[MustangStudFarm]

Dr. Steven Solomon(author) talked about remineralization on a few podcasts and he said that you don't feed a person a month's supply of food in one day, you give it to them a little everyday. So, this is how we should approach feeding micronutrients. The amount that I told you to use is a very small amount, but you should do it almost every watering. I've been dealing with Mn issues for a very long time and it's a common problem. The other members on here that I suggest a soil test to usually come back very low in several micronutrients, mainly Fe and Mn with B and Cu being less common. I had to add a touch of borax to my last soil test, but you really should get tested before adding borax, it can be toxic very quickly.

 

[MustangStudFarm]

7.2 is a pretty normal PH for organic is it? I thought that a healthy soil system would get itself around 7 or so. But also it seems strange that the symptoms would just start now as the plant is getting massive - also seems questionable that there’s any kind of “deficiency” in my soil as I have loads of it.... too many amendments? Possibly? But don’t think I went too overboard. It’s also affecting one plant more than the other but they in the same soil, which would think very similar PH and access to nutrients. Should I PH my water down some for my next waterings?

Usually, when I am dealing with low iron, it's accompanied by very high phosphorus. Just something to think about. These are common problems that I deal with EVERY soil test that I have done. I have sky high phosphorus and very low Mn & Fe, so I feel confident about my advice. If you want to do some soil testing, I'll give you the name of my agronomist. I paid $200 for a complete soil analysis but that also included water testing along with a free follow up report($40 value). The first test will be a Mehilch 3 and Saturated paste test and the follow up will just be a saturated paste test with a free recommendation. It's a game changer for me, but I'm not here selling stuff. I'm not affiliated with him at all, just happy customer.

 

[MustangStudFarm]

7.2 is a pretty normal PH for organic is it?

No it's not. Anything over 6.5 and you will start having micronutrient issues like iron and manganese. Everything that I suggested has sulfate with it, which keeps the Ph low.