Silica/silicon questions

[wheresthekoosh]

Alchemist Stout MSA (Monosilicic Acid) Gallon (BRAND CLOSEOUT - EXISTING STOCK ONLY)

<p>Monosilicic acid (H4SiO4 aka ortho-silicic acid), the form found in Stout™ MSA, is the most bioavailable form of silicon. Stout™ MSA is immediately available to your plants and is stable over a larger pH range when compared to other silicon

growgreenmi.com

stout is a cheaper option for monosilicic, im using now. pretty good

 

[Dreminen169]

so i just used up the last of my Armor Si. i was gonna try the DG ProTekt but it's potassium silicate too.

i got a qt of this to try: Cutting Edge Solutions Bulletproof Si
5% Silicone Dioxide (Si02) derived from Sodium Silicate

Next time AgSIL16H from buildasoil is only $20 and then you can make the 7.8% solution yourself with distilled water. That will last a looong time!

Agsil16H Potassium Silicate – BuildASoil

$16.00 with Free Shipping. You will receive enough AGSIL16H to make 150 gallons of Bug Spray. Use 1.5 Grams per ounce of Neem Oil per Gallon of Water for a Bug Spray Base. This is a 1.6 weight ratio hydrous potassium silicate pow

buildasoil.com

 

[PJ Diaz]

In soil, I use 1 tsp per gallon of water.

You use that in the root zone or as a foliar? I would think that ratio would jack the ph up well over 10ph and freak the plants out if fed in the root zone.

 

[PJ Diaz]

Alchemist Stout MSA (Monosilicic Acid) Gallon (BRAND CLOSEOUT - EXISTING STOCK ONLY)

<p>Monosilicic acid (H4SiO4 aka ortho-silicic acid), the form found in Stout™ MSA, is the most bioavailable form of silicon. Stout™ MSA is immediately available to your plants and is stable over a larger pH range when compared to other silicon

growgreenmi.com

stout is a cheaper option for monosilicic, im using now. pretty good

What is the % of silicic acid in Stout? I can't seem to find the numbers anywhere.

 

[PJ Diaz]

For those of you who didn't read the whole scientific abstract I posted a page back, make sure you don't miss this important headline:

 

[rkymtnman]

Bulletproof Si ® delivers silicon in a form that may be utilized in virtually any fertilizer regimen. The silicon form (SiO2) has shown to increase agricultural production, yield, strengthening plants, promote resistance to stressors like heat, cold, drought, lodging, accelerate maturity, promotion of a advantageous upright stature which leads to favorable exposure of leaves to light.
Bulletproof Si ® is formulated without potassium to facilitate application flexibility. Bulletproof Si ® is extremely beneficial in hydroponics, coco blends, and soilless growing media. **NOTE** A strong aroma similar to ammonia is normal in Bulletproof Si. The specialty enzymes used in the formula produce a sour, almost acetic smell. Always shake very well before use.
In addition, Bulletproof Si ® is designed for use in hydroponics, continuous feed, drain to waste, soilless, and traditional soil growing applications.
Bulletproof Si ® is recommended for use with all Cutting Edge Solutions® products, as well as with other commercial hydroponic nutrients. Bulletproof Si ® should be applied to roots and leaves during all stages of growth.

Are you saying these guys are lying?

 

[JimmiP]

You use that in the root zone or as a foliar? I would think that ratio would jack the ph up well over 10ph and freak the plants out if fed in the root zone.

Yeah, in the root zone. Does great stuff and I hsve no issues. That's the recommended dose for silica blast in soil, 1-5ml.

 

[PJ Diaz]

Bulletproof Si ® delivers silicon in a form that may be utilized in virtually any fertilizer regimen. The silicon form (SiO2) has shown to increase agricultural production, yield, strengthening plants, promote resistance to stressors like heat, cold, drought, lodging, accelerate maturity, promotion of a advantageous upright stature which leads to favorable exposure of leaves to light.
Bulletproof Si ® is formulated without potassium to facilitate application flexibility. Bulletproof Si ® is extremely beneficial in hydroponics, coco blends, and soilless growing media. **NOTE** A strong aroma similar to ammonia is normal in Bulletproof Si. The specialty enzymes used in the formula produce a sour, almost acetic smell. Always shake very well before use.
In addition, Bulletproof Si ® is designed for use in hydroponics, continuous feed, drain to waste, soilless, and traditional soil growing applications.
Bulletproof Si ® is recommended for use with all Cutting Edge Solutions® products, as well as with other commercial hydroponic nutrients. Bulletproof Si ® should be applied to roots and leaves during all stages of growth.

Are you saying these guys are lying?

I'm not sure who's lying but those statements don't seem to conform with the study I posted. That said, we do know that potassium silicates and silicon dioxide both do break down to silicic acids. What I'm not sure of is how long and complex the process of converting silicates to silicic acid is. Then there's also the question of fulvic acid and how that may interact with the availability with silicates.

 

[PJ Diaz]

Yeah, in the root zone. Does great stuff and I hsve no issues. That's the recommended dose for silica blast in soil, 1-5ml.

Gotcha, I didn't realize that Silica Blast is only 20% the strength of Armor Si..

Armor Si:

Silica Blast:

 

[rkymtnman]

I'm not sure who's lying but those statements don't seem to conform with the study I posted. That said, we do know that potassium silicates and silicon dioxide both do break down to silicic acids. What I'm not sure of is how long and complex the process of converting silicates to silicic acid is. Then there's also the question of fulvic acid and how that may interact with the availability with silicates.

i'm gonna fire off an email to them and see what they say. the other thing i like about CES is they offer a Ca additive, a Mg additivie and a Cal/Mg additive. but their micro/grow/bloom is basically a GH copy.

 

[rkymtnman]

so had a quick convo with CES today.

alot of what he said is somewhat reflected in the article from PJ. so their Si product is from Si dioxide not potassium silicate. he broke it down as basically 3 levels of availabilty to the plant: the silicilic acid was by far #1. but expensive. then the silica dioxide which was in the middle with potassium silicate being the #3 in plant availabilty.

so i bought a qt for like 20 bucks. i'll give it a shot. would be great if i can get the Si w/o the K. winwin

 

[PJ Diaz]

so had a quick convo with CES today.

alot of what he said is somewhat reflected in the article from PJ. so their Si product is from Si dioxide not potassium silicate. he broke it down as basically 3 levels of availabilty to the plant: the silicilic acid was by far #1. but expensive. then the silica dioxide which was in the middle with potassium silicate being the #3 in plant availabilty.

so i bought a qt for like 20 bucks. i'll give it a shot. would be great if i can get the Si w/o the K. winwin

That's good info towards unraveling this mystery, but sort of leads to another confusion.. If you look at the two labels of Armor Si and Silica Blast I posted on this page, you can see that the seem to contain Silicon Dioxide and also (derived from?) Potassium Silicate. So, I'm thinking that the effects of Bulletproof Si may be the same as Armor Si and Silica Blast, but without the K because it's derived from a different source.

 

[rkymtnman]

That's good info towards unraveling this mystery, but sort of leads to another confusion.. If you look at the two labels of Armor Si and Silica Blast I posted on this page, you can see that the seem to contain Silicon Dioxide and also (derived from?) Potassium Silicate. So, I'm thinking that the effects of Bulletproof Si may be the same as Armor Si and Silica Blast, but without the K because it's derived from a different source.

yes, i agree. the CES is derived from sodium silicate, not potassium silicate. he mentioned that their product is one of their "newest" but they kinda waited to see what other companies were doing as far as silica (all or mostly all from potassium silicate) before they came out with their version.

 

[PJ Diaz]

I found another brand of Silicic Acid, which looks decent. It appears to be about 1/3 as strong as Power Si (based off feed charts), and also 1/3 the cost: https://www.amazon.com/Dutchpro-Nutrients-Silica-Mono-Silicic-Fertilizer/dp/B08X7F4BS9

 

[Lucky Luke]

I've just learnt something. I've always used SI in veg but not in flower. Thanks for upping my game.

 

[PJ Diaz]

Here's another Si product, and this one looks pretty interesting to me. It's "a 99.9% pure amorphous silica made from discarded rice hulls".

RecycleSil - 99.9% pure amorphous silica made from rice hulls

RecycleSil is a 99.9% pure amorphous silica made from rice hulls. Silica provides numerous benefits to plants. RecycleSil has unique qualities that make it the best choice for providing needed silica to all types of plants.

recyclesil.com

 

[rkymtnman]

thanks to UPS, i got my bottle of bulletproof Si yesterday.

the mix directions are for 1 to 4ml/gal. they haven't had any Si in a few weeks so i gave them the 4mL dose. i forgot to check my EC before but it doesn't seem to have upped my EC by much. next time i dose it i will measure before and after. it did raise pH as expected.

2 questions:
how to calculate ppms of Si? if the bottle says 5% silicone dioxide, do i put 5 into my nute calculator? when i put in 5 at 4mL, i get 52ppm of Si. does that seem correct?

and then secondly, what ppms of Si should i be aiming for? any ideas??

 

[cobshopgrow]

am only using ghe mineral magic as Si source normally, not sure how much is broken to a plant avaiable form, its ats least a nice PH stabilizer.
the mineral magic is probably, bentonite/montmorillonite.

anyone tried horsetail extracts as Si supplement?

 

[PJ Diaz]

thanks to UPS, i got my bottle of bulletproof Si yesterday.

the mix directions are for 1 to 4ml/gal. they haven't had any Si in a few weeks so i gave them the 4mL dose. i forgot to check my EC before but it doesn't seem to have upped my EC by much. next time i dose it i will measure before and after. it did raise pH as expected.

2 questions:
how to calculate ppms of Si? if the bottle says 5% silicone dioxide, do i put 5 into my nute calculator? when i put in 5 at 4mL, i get 52ppm of Si. does that seem correct?

and then secondly, what ppms of Si should i be aiming for? any ideas??

From here: https://manicbotanix.com/silicon-in-hydroponics/

 

[PJ Diaz]

My buddy is putting together a sample package for me from his new employer, so I should have the 40% mono-silicic acid sample bottle in a couple of weeks. Well let you all know how it goes. Maybe I'll even do a side by side in veg if I can get some clones going soon. Can't really do that in flower without setting up a whole separate system.