First Grow, looking for insight on fan leaf issue!

[koalajesus]

Hello everyone!

I just recently started this wonderful hobby and I feel like I've been doing sorta okay. My techniques are a bit rough and I've had some bumps in the road, but typically nothing I can't overcome with a bit of thorough research. Regardless, I'm enjoying myself!

Before I get to my questions, a quick summary of my setup:

Random Bag Seed, appears to be pretty indica dominant, named Enigma for obvious reasons
4x4 Tent
4 x Spider Farmer SF1000D angled roughly 10-12 degrees inward at Enigma, currently 34" from tip of canopy
Intake and Outake 6" Inline Fans
Oscillating Clip Fan providing light wind for Enigma
5 Gallon Fabric Pot
Fox Farms Coco Loco mix
RO Water, PH'd to 5.9-6.0
No nutrients added as of yet (Coco Loco is pretty hot already, waiting to introduce still)
Watering every 48 hours, last 3 has been 1L of water
Temperature between 80-83 during lights on, 72-74 lights off
Humidity never goes below 45%, never above 55%

Enigma is currently 24 days old since germination.

I'm at a loss with what I have going on here. Maybe I didn't use the right keywords when searching, but regardless I'd appreciate some input!

The main issue in question is a bubbling/browning, but not really burnt issue that is occurring on the tip of a fan leaf. Here is the leaf in question.



I had another lower leaf have this same problem, but it was more progressed with little bubbles on the surface of the brown and crispy to the touch. I cut her off and threw it away since no other leaves were showing the issue until I spotted this today.

Not only that, the leaf itself seems to be pretty rough or irritated from what I can see. Unsure of the cause of this as well.

Secondly, Enigma either has a weird trait or I'm goofing up her new growth. It starts out very lime then from the base of the leaf to the tip slowly turns green with age. From research, this is typically normal but photos show the green starting from the tip and working inward with age. Here is a photo of new growth at the top of the plant(1st image), that same growth a day later(2nd image), and older growth(3rd image) that looked the exact same when it was younger.


Looks like Enigma is potted far to the side, but it's bent from early training and only a slightly bad potting job (whoops )




Lot going on here, but referring to the large, dark fan leaf at the top of the photo. Looked just like the new growth when it was young and now looks pretty decent.

Any sort of feedback is appreciated! Even if it's unrelated to my initial questions.

If more photos or information is needed to diagnose or you just want to know more, please let me know!

 

[Darkoh69]

Sorry to say that I think you have too many of those terrible lights pushing too much bad light onto your plants & now they are letting you know they aren’t happy. This will get worse real soon

 

[koalajesus]

Sorry to say that I think you have too many of those terrible lights pushing too much bad light onto your plants & now they are letting you know they aren’t happy. This will get worse real soon

Thanks for the...uhhh...words. Not really a good explanation of how they are "terrible" lights not how light itself can be bad considering the full spectrum technology.

The Spider Farmer SF series lights have been proven to give good results and they utilize the Samsung LM301D Diodes. The same brand diode as the highest end lights, but a different model for efficiency and price. Regardless, to say it's a terrible light is a crime.

If anything, the new growth is getting too much light to start and can't handle it till they have larger leaves. More than likely will be moving them up a bit.

If you could provide sources where it shows LED board lights produce "bad light", I'd gladly read them over.

 

[Darkoh69]

The proof is in your pudding. Im not trying to be a bad guy but if you buy lights at the bottom end of the price line they are going to be ‘badder’ than good. It doesn’t matter what name they put on the diodes they use. Most of the cheapest lights on Amazon, Aliexpres & Wish claim to have Samsung LM301 which is why the are cheap. Its false economy as your results are showing & will continue to show you. Like I said Im not trying to be the bad guy Im just a guy providing feedback I thought you might appreciate

 

[hydroScript.js]

cal-Mag.....too much N from the darkness of your leaves and from the looks of it you've had your lights to close super-tight node spaces with the bleaching at the top is an indicator for me... The brown at the end of the leaves is def a nute burn...i think the super dark leaves with the brown burning tips offer some clues....I think your too High N is causing lockout of cal-mag (or something else)....i'm just taking guess here...I'm pretty sure you previously had lights to close and then fox farm is too hot and overdid it with the N that I'm guessing.... Lights might be too far away now...but they haven't always been lights don't bleach from being too far away....

Fox Farm sometimes comes pretty hot I've heard....I know mine didn't need nutes for about a month....but i used fox farm ocean forest

 

[Fruity420]

Sure looks like excessive nutrient, they are very deep green and tips have burned. Now they can’t uptake properly.
The distance from the lights should be fine.
If that’s a premix, I’d be cutting it in 50/50 pure coco, to dilute it. Can always add a bit more nutrition in bloom. Cannabis has very light nutrition requirements in veg stage
You should also use much smaller pots, plants in coco will grow fast dialed in, kept in smaller containers drying out and feeling a bit lighter between watering is the sweet spot.
Dry coco, properly dry is extremely light weight. About half way dry is the sweet spot, especially for young plants.

 

[Fruity420]

Keeping them in smaller containers is not a problem, they’ll even grow better. There is a definite sweet spot most experienced coco users will attest. It should be at the point everyday where if you didn’t add water and feed it would become dry and wilt. This can be required 2 or more times a day, much better this than small plants sitting in big coco container.

 

[Fruity420]

That bushy plant in front was a reveg, just doing it’s mutant phase

 

[Fruity420]

You’re in 5 gallon already, would be better in half gallon or less, let the roots explode out of bottom before you pot up.

It can be tricky growin small plants in big pot, that’s been my experience in all varieties of plant species.
I’ve grown plenty of different things in pure coco, just adding fertiliser.
Bananas, peppers, lettuce, melons.. same principle applies

I’d recommend a good E.C Meter.

 

[koalajesus]

I appreciate the more detailed input you guys.

hydro, my lights have most definitely 30+inches from the top of the canopy since germination as I've never moved them closer, only further. I do agree that the plant felt like it was getting too many nutrients. However, without using anything nutrients in my water just what was in Coco Loco I didn't think it'd be the issue and that the Loco was that hot. Definitely looking into adjusting the mix.

Fruity, definitely appreciate all the information you've provided. I had read about Coco Loco being strong to start, but didn't think it'd be that overwhelming for the young ones.
Additionally, I'm using the 5 gallon because I was hoping to be able to manage it due to the fabric pot allowing for more airflow and to cut out the middle pot-man.
Lastly, I do have an EC meter, but have not taken recent measurements.

I will be taking your advice on the smaller containers though and transplanting throughout the growth. Since I already have the 5 gallons, my first thought is to get 2 gallons as the starter with 5 being the finisher.

At this point in time though, I'm thinking to keep the plant in the 5 and just fixing the medium to your suggested 50/50 mix of pure coco and the Coco Loco. For flowering, thinking of bumping it up to a 30/70 or 20/80 depending on how the plant takes the 50/50 mix.

Future grows will start with seedling in rapid rooter and grow out the seedling tray, transplant to 2 gallon for veg, then transplant to 5 gallon for flower. Might be a bit rigid as each strain and even individual phenos can be different, but a rough scale.

 

[VincenzioVonHook]

Sorry to say that I think you have too many of those terrible lights pushing too much bad light onto your plants & now they are letting you know they aren’t happy. This will get worse real soon

I just picture you sitting their with a monocle and a top hat sucking your own dick with a comment like that. Those exact diodes are used on $1000 lights such as the FC-6500. Do U even light spec bro? Or do you simply stroke off to the monetary value of a product without looking at the actual spectrum?

Please tell us how genuine Samsung 3000k, 5000k, 660nm and 760nm diodes provide "bad light" when they are on a spider farmer board, but somehow produce "good light" when they inhabit a board with a higher price tag? If you are calling LM301d diodes trash, why is the mars FC-6500 considered one of the best 5x5 full coverage lights on the market?

 

[koalajesus]

Well, today marks day 27 since germination. I was prepping coir to mix with the Coco Loco when I realized it was morning time for the plant and I went to go to a quick check on it.

To say the least, I believe this plant here is about to be showing some big ol' balls....


Probably gonna let it grow out a bit longer to be sure, but repotting has been put on hold until this develops further.

 

[VincenzioVonHook]

Well, today marks day 27 since germination. I was prepping coir to mix with the Coco Loco when I realized it was morning time for the plant and I went to go to a quick check on it.

To say the least, I believe this plant here is about to be showing some big ol' balls....
View attachment 4872775

Probably gonna let it grow out a bit longer to be sure, but repotting has been put on hold until this develops further.

Looks just like a calyx to me..male and female growth comes from the same spot, I bet you will see two hairs sprout very soon.

 

[koalajesus]

Looks just like a calyx to me..male and female growth comes from the same spot, I bet you will see two hairs sprout very soon.

I appreciate the reassurance and hope! It is very early to be calling it, but there was this other branch showing some interesting growth as well. It's so early that the LED on the microscope washes out the picture quite a bit and I don't have the hand of a barber.



Is there still hope?

 

[VincenzioVonHook]

I appreciate the reassurance and hope! It is very early to be calling it, but there was this other branch showing some interesting growth as well. It's so early that the LED on the microscope washes out the picture quite a bit and I don't have the hand of a barber.

View attachment 4872805

Is there still hope?

I think you'll find that is the two Growth tips coming out from the main growth node.

My fat monkey auto popped pistils day 28, and they looked just like yours. It is early, but within two to three days you should see some formation which makes it easier to determine sex..

 

[koalajesus]

I think you'll find that is the two Growth tips coming out from the main growth node.

My fat monkey auto popped pistils day 28, and they looked just like yours. It is early, but within two to three days you should see some formation which makes it easier to determine sex..

As of this morning it definitely resembles a new set of fan leaves like you said.

They just looked so much like dicks that I was misled!

I'll keep an eye on it the next few days and see what else develops.

 

[Dank Bongula]

As of this morning it definitely resembles a new set of fan leaves like you said.

They just looked so much like dicks that I was misled!

I'll keep an eye on it the next few days and see what else develops.

Just keep in mind that sometimes plants can take forever to show sex...I had three bagseeds take about 60days to show...I was looking every day past day 40.

 

[koalajesus]

Just keep in mind that sometimes plants can take forever to show sex...I had three bagseeds take about 60days to show...I was looking every day past day 40.

Holy cow! 60 days is just crazy.

I hope this one doesn't take too much time, but it can do what it wants and show me when it's ready.

I appreciate all the input though!

 

[ComfortCreator]

If you look up too much light, your 2nd pic at the beginning of the thread with the white outline of the top growth is textbook too much light.

I am not paying attention to much else except that pic. It says too much light and recently. The burnt tip is not enough to worry about in comparison.

Please note: too much is not the same as suggesting the light spectrum is bad. I do not agree there.

 

[Moflow]

You don't need 4 x lights on one plant that size.
Why waste all that electricity when not needed just yet?
One light should be sufficient at this stage looking at the par maps of that light.
~ 24" away from top of plant looks about the right distance.
Put plant in corner of tent to get reflection from 2 x sides of tent.
The fixture doesn't produce 'bad' light. It may be a less efficient light with the diodes used but spectrum is good.

400 umols for veg
800 umols for flowering