Just say no ....

ViRedd

New Member
‘No’ to Obama's Experimental Government
Give it a rest.

By Jonah Goldberg


On Sunday night, President-elect Barack Obama told 60 Minutes that Franklin D. Roosevelt would be a model of sorts for him. “What you see in FDR that I hope my team can emulate is not always getting it right, but projecting a sense of confidence and a willingness to try things and experiment in order to get people working again.”

This is a problematic standard. What do you want in a surgeon? One who “gets it right” or one who projects “a sense of confidence?” Ditto accountants, defense lawyers, mechanics and bomb-disposal technicians: cocky and self-assured, or gets it right?

Before you answer that, please ask yourself what your point of view on this question was during the eight years of the Bush administration.
In short, there can be a chasm between being right and merely appearing to be right. Why anyone stakes greater value on the appearance than reality is a mystery to me.

But as Obama clearly recognizes, that was a big part of the FDR magic. FDR came into office promising “bold, persistent experimentation” — and delivered. Raymond Moley, an early member of FDR’s “brain trust,” saw the New Deal for what it was. “To look upon these programs as the result of a unified plan was to believe that the accumulation of stuffed snakes, baseball pictures, school flags, old tennis shoes, carpenter’s tools, geometry books and chemistry sets in a boy’s bedroom could have been put there by an interior decorator,” Moley wrote later.

Yet Americans thought it was all part of a plan, even though experimentation and planning are in fact near opposites. Why? Because FDR always projected such confidence, even as he made things worse. But this isn’t another column about how FDR prolonged the Depression. Been there, done that. I’d rather be forward-looking.

In fact, I want to be experimental, too. So here’s my idea: Just stop.

Stop talking about bailouts and stimuli. Stop pondering ever more drastic action. Give it a rest. Let it be.

One of the main reasons there’s all of this “money on the sidelines” out there among private investors is that Wall Street doesn’t know what the government will do next. Will it bail out the auto industry? The insurance companies? Which taxes will go up? How far will interest rates go down? How long will the federal government own stakes in the banks? Will more stimulus checks go out? If so, how big will the deficit get?

Interventionists, bailout czars and “bold experimenters” in all parties claim to be like firefighters; they can’t stop what they’re doing until the fire is out. But this analogy only works if you understand the nature of the fire. If it’s a credit crisis, that’s one thing. If it’s uncertainty, it’s quite another.

And if the problem right now is uncertainty, then these aren’t firefighters, they’re arsonists.

Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson told Congress he’d spend his kitty of tax dollars on bad mortgage-backed securities. Instead, in the spirit of bold experimentation, he’s spent much of it to date buying banks.

Obama insisted he had a specific plan for the economy — but his plan seems to be to “project confidence.”

The problem with this “In Obama We Trust” approach is that it makes private-sector decision-making very difficult. If your boss says he will lay off half his employees next month, but he doesn’t know who yet, will you buy a new house this month?

In a time of stability and growth, government can afford bold, persistent experimentation. But in a time of uncertainty, the last thing it needs is more uncertainty. Yet Obama’s confident pragmatism, like FDR’s, is a threat to confidence where it matters — among consumers, credit markets and investors.

Yes, letting GM go into bankruptcy would be scary. But a GM bailout merely kicks GM’s problems down the road while spreading the fear about where Uncle Sam’s big feet will land next. Besides, bankruptcy isn’t the end of the world. It’s the means by which bad companies restructure to fix themselves. Bailouts are the means by which governments subsidize bad companies.

The engine company in Washington has pumped more than a trillion dollars through the fire hose. It’s time to turn off the spigot, not only to see where we are but to let the normal people start fixing things.

By all means, let’s hope President Obama will project confidence. But maybe he should express less confidence in the government’s ability to get people working again, and more in the ability of regular Americans to rise from the ashes of any hardship. In short, don’t just do something, President Obama, stand there.

— Jonah Goldberg is the author of Liberal Fascism: The Secret History of the American Left from Mussolini to the Politics of Meaning.

© 2008 Tribune Media Services, Inc.

— Jonah Goldberg is editor-at-large of National Review Online.
 

Doctor Pot

Well-Known Member
Ah, right wing pundits are back to their old formula! Take an Obama quote out of context, misinterpret its meaning, then rant for a couple pages about how this quote guarantees that Obama plans to destroy America! Good times! :D
 

ViRedd

New Member
Ah, right wing pundits are back to their old formula! Take an Obama quote out of context, misinterpret its meaning, then rant for a couple pages about how this quote guarantees that Obama plans to destroy America! Good times! :D
Hey, what can I say ... its our turn. :mrgreen:

Vi
 

GrowTech

stays relevant.
My Way News - Calif. Supreme Court to take up gay marriage ban

[FONT=Verdana,Sans-serif]SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - California's highest court has agreed to hear legal challenges to a new ban on gay marriage, but is refusing to allow gay couples to resume marrying until it rules.
The California Supreme Court on Wednesday accepted three lawsuits seeking to overturn Proposition 8. The amendment passed this month with 52 percent of the vote. The court did not elaborate on its decision.
All three cases claim the ban abridges the civil rights of a vulnerable minority group. They argue that voters alone did not have the authority to enact such a significant constitutional change.
[/FONT]


now that is some shit worth posting about :)
 
K

Keenly

Guest
My Way News - Calif. Supreme Court to take up gay marriage ban

[FONT=Verdana,Sans-serif]SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - California's highest court has agreed to hear legal challenges to a new ban on gay marriage, but is refusing to allow gay couples to resume marrying until it rules.
The California Supreme Court on Wednesday accepted three lawsuits seeking to overturn Proposition 8. The amendment passed this month with 52 percent of the vote. The court did not elaborate on its decision.
All three cases claim the ban abridges the civil rights of a vulnerable minority group. They argue that voters alone did not have the authority to enact such a significant constitutional change.
[/FONT]


now that is some shit worth posting about :)
good for them

the opinion of the many should not interfere with the freedom of the few
 

GrowTech

stays relevant.
that's what I'm saying...

my ladys brother was going to get married until that ban... it was tragic, the same night this country gets its first black president, California decides to start discriminating against another minority...

shouldn't even be up for negotiation... the gender of two people should not be relevant to the state when it comes to marriage. just another way for mormons to piss me off, as if knocking on my door every other day isn't enough.
 

Doctor Pot

Well-Known Member
Of course, wouldn't it suck to be one of those people who devoted their life to passing prop 8 and then when it passes despite all odds, the court overturns it and acts as though the vote never happened.

Personally, I think the state should just change the name of the marriage license to "civil union" and then give the same license to everyone. That way gays will have their rights and no one will be happy! ;)
 

GrowTech

stays relevant.
true... but the fact that gays have to earn their rights by protesting for weeks and months is just ridiculous... say a gay couple can't get married is like saying an interracial couple cannot get married, or only white people are allowed to get married...

prop 8 is classic racist bullshit just like the back of the bus or a special water fountains for blacks...
 

saynotothebs

Well-Known Member
yea some bullshit going on i say let gay and lesbians get married whos business is it anyway...why should the us government be able to tell who can and cannot be married...thats that bullshit...
 

bradlyallen2

Well-Known Member
Refusing to allow gay marriage is a byproduct of the same mode of thinking that allows for the continued prohibition of marijuana. Regardless of public opinion neither is a crime in constitutional terms.
 

ViRedd

New Member
You're right Bradly. So, in that context should the government dictate to a Rabbi, Pastor or Priest who they must marry? If Prop 8 is overturned, how do we deal with the discrimination lawsuits brought upon the churches who refuse to marry same sex couples?

Vi
 

natrone23

Well-Known Member
You're right Bradly. So, in that context should the government dictate to a Rabbi, Pastor or Priest who they must marry? If Prop 8 is overturned, how do we deal with the discrimination lawsuits brought upon the churches who refuse to marry same sex couples?

Vi
Catholic preists won't marry someone who isn't catholic, the government dosn't force Catholic preists to marry non-catholics
 

Doctor Pot

Well-Known Member
You're right Bradly. So, in that context should the government dictate to a Rabbi, Pastor or Priest who they must marry? If Prop 8 is overturned, how do we deal with the discrimination lawsuits brought upon the churches who refuse to marry same sex couples?

Vi
The Catholic church doesn't marry couples who don't go through their marriage preparation classes, or couples who were divorced. Separation of church and state goes both ways, thankfully.
 

ViRedd

New Member
The Catholic church doesn't marry couples who don't go through their marriage preparation classes, or couples who were divorced. Separation of church and state goes both ways, thankfully.
Yeppers, but that is between Catholics and their religion. Get the ACLU into the equation, along with "progressive" political correctness, and you have a completely different can of worms opening up.

Vi
 

medicineman

New Member
Vi, I thought you were all about individual freedom, and yet If I may dare, It appears you are against gay marriage and Abortion, both freedom of choice issues, which is sort of an oxymoron as gay people don't usually have abortions. Could you clear this up for me? Like, how is this going to affect you personally anyway? And bringing your religious beliefs to bear on someone else is what?
 

GrowTech

stays relevant.
Vi, I thought you were all about individual freedom, and yet If I may dare, It appears you are against gay marriage and Abortion, both freedom of choice issues, which is sort of an oxymoron as gay people don't usually have abortions. Could you clear this up for me? Like, how is this going to affect you personally anyway? And bringing your religious beliefs to bear on someone else is what?

I've learned sometimes it's just better to read the good parts, and then put the book down :D I don't think he was saying he is against all that stuff though... Maybe I put the book down early?
 

Doctor Pot

Well-Known Member
Yeppers, but that is between Catholics and their religion. Get the ACLU into the equation, along with "progressive" political correctness, and you have a completely different can of worms opening up.

Vi
The ACLU may disagree with you on many issues, but they're not insane. Like I said, separation of church and state goes both ways, and churches are allowed to put their own criteria on membership and sacraments. The church just performs the ceremony, the justice of the peace does the legal part.
 

Dfunk

Well-Known Member
No one can tell anyone anything unless they let them. To live free is to follow no one's rules.
 

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
My Way News - Calif. Supreme Court to take up gay marriage ban

[FONT=Verdana,Sans-serif]SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - California's highest court has agreed to hear legal challenges to a new ban on gay marriage, but is refusing to allow gay couples to resume marrying until it rules.
The California Supreme Court on Wednesday accepted three lawsuits seeking to overturn Proposition 8. The amendment passed this month with 52 percent of the vote. The court did not elaborate on its decision.
All three cases claim the ban abridges the civil rights of a vulnerable minority group. They argue that voters alone did not have the authority to enact such a significant constitutional change.
[/FONT]


now that is some shit worth posting about :)
The opinions of the few shouldn't interfere with the laws passed by the many.

Besides, there's an even darker twist to this. If either the California or the US Supreme court acts against Prop. 8 they are saying that we as citizens do not have the authority to decide for ourselves what laws we want, and that we can not make laws for ourselves.

They are also saying that the minority can overturn a law just because they oppose it. In that case, I suppose that laws banning, murder, rape, arson, and robbery be banned, because they prevent me from murdering, raping, burning and stealing.

The sheer absurdity of the concept of a minority being able to overturn a law by claiming to be disenfranchised is stupidity. There is a perfectly valid method for them to fight against the gay marriage ban, and that's the same way the supporters of the gay marriage ban got it enacted. By requesting a referendum to pass another Amendment to nullify that Amendment.

If they don't want to do it that way, then they should all be taken out and shot like DOGS.
 
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