CatHedral
Well-Known Member
I see, thanks. Does not appear to be an issue in my state.
Tesla New Model Unveil...
- Thread starter doublejj
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CunningCanuk
Well-Known Member
It doesn’t appear to be an issue anywhere. That was my point.
CatHedral
Well-Known Member
Well no. You’re saying it is an issue some places. It not being this here does not impugn me or ridicule you.
doublejj
Well-Known Member
You are part of a society that has exploited the natural resources since before it was a country. Climate change is killing the planet today. Now is the time to move to save the planet. Hopefully we can learn to avoid the sacred sights....
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
That's because white people exteriminated most first people in CA before they considered them people.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Our diseases did most of the extermination.
CunningCanuk
Well-Known Member
If only the settler and colonialist societies had the same respect for the environment First Nations people did, things wouldn’t be so dire.
I agree we have to do something but ev’s aren’t a silver bullet. After reading that article I’m starting to wonder how much of a solution they are.
injinji
Well-Known Member
I saw where someone said the Jetsons had never seen the ground. So as fucked up as we are, we are not as fucked up as we thought we would be by now.
CunningCanuk
Well-Known Member
Right, but it wasn’t always a natural infection.
xtsho
Well-Known Member
I'm all for less polluting energy efficient vehicles but it seems like we're just swapping one form of pollution for another and doing it in someone else's backyard in many cases.
Many don't think about the hidden costs of obtaining the materials needed for producing EV's.
Many only see the shiny new Tesla's driving down the road. They don't see the environmental destruction and human exploitation going on around the world to produce that car. The tainted groundwater, toxic leachates entering rivers and streams from extraction processes. It's not as clean as it seems.
There's also the forced child slave labor in the mines.
Elon Musk thanks the Canadians for their environmentally friendly mining operations that supply minerals to produce his cars. Sulfur dioxide is green!
CunningCanuk
Well-Known Member
Are you implying a greedy, self promoter isn’t going to save us all?I'm all for less polluting energy efficient vehicles but it seems like we're just swapping one form of pollution for another and doing it in someone else's backyard in many cases.
Many don't think about the hidden costs of obtaining the materials needed for producing EV's.
Many only see the shiny new Tesla's driving down the road. They don't see the environmental destruction and human exploitation going on around the world to produce that car. The tainted groundwater, toxic leachates entering rivers and streams from extraction processes. It's not as clean as it seems.
There's also the forced child slave labor in the mines.
Elon Musk thanks the Canadians for their environmentally friendly mining operations that supply minerals to produce his cars. Sulfur dioxide is green!
That’s crazy talk.
CatHedral
Well-Known Member
That is likely.
xtsho
Well-Known Member
But he's saving the environment and making the world a better place for everyone.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
You assume no progress will be made in mining, refining and no new battery chemistries coming online. Telsa's motors are designed to use a minimum of rare earths. Aluminum graphene stands a good chance of replacing lithium as a primary EV power source. Once battery issues are resolved and it looks like they will be from now and over the next 5 to ten years of constant improvements and cost reduction with volume manufacture. EV's are cheaper to produce than ICE cars have fewer parts and moving parts, will last longer and require much less maintenance. Batteries are the bottle neck, but that bottleneck is rapidly collapsing there are several promising new battery chemistries and enhancements under development and some like graphene aluminum and solid state lithium are hitting the market this year or next.But he's saving the environment and making the world a better place for everyone.
We will have EV's because they will be cheaper and better than ICE vehicles for most applications, every car company on the planet is betting on it.
xtsho
Well-Known Member
I assume that people will be shortsighted and look at profits as they always do without a care for the environment. In the race to produce electric vehicles complete disregard for the environment in places like the Congo that nobody cares about doesn't seem to be a high priority for people in developed nations. We're talking pollution on an epic scale that will take decades if not centuries for recovery.
Look at remote places in the arctic where Russian nickel mining has turned entire rivers red and dead. The concept of EV's is great but the implementation is controlled by those seeking only profit. They claim to be green yet completely ignore what goes on to get the materials and source those materials from locations they know use child slave labor.
I believe we need to move away from ICE vehicles but I'm not ready to just ignore the hidden costs and I do not think that any progress will be made in mining if it costs money. The current mindset is how cheap can we get materials so we can make the cheapest cars possible.
And no I don't have a solution for greed which is what's currently motivating the EV industry. Like everything, good intentions can go awry and the main players continue to do what they always do which is make money. Nobody cares about the kid in the Congo or the dead rivers. It's green! But in reality it isn't yet. Hopefully things will change but I don't put that much faith in humanity. People want EV's for the lowest cost and unfortunately most don't have a clue what's going on to produce them. I think many would gladly pay more if that's what it would take to clean up the supply chain but Tesla and everyone else works hard to keep people from knowing the truth. The truth isn't good for business.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Well there's not much I or you can do about the big picture, but most cars in 10 years will be EV's and I figure the newer ones will use Aluminum Graphene batteries, no cobalt of nickel required. Iron air (rust) batteries will be used for grid storage, they have deep capacity and many hours of storage.I assume that people will be shortsighted and look at profits as they always do without a care for the environment. In the race to produce electric vehicles complete disregard for the environment in places like the Congo that nobody cares about doesn't seem to be a high priority for people in developed nations. We're talking pollution on an epic scale that will take decades if not centuries for recovery.
Look at remote places in the arctic where Russian nickel mining has turned entire rivers red and dead. The concept of EV's is great but the implementation is controlled by those seeking only profit. They claim to be green yet completely ignore what goes on to get the materials and source those materials from locations they know use child slave labor.
I believe we need to move away from ICE vehicles but I'm not ready to just ignore the hidden costs and I do not think that any progress will be made in mining if it costs money. The current mindset is how cheap can we get materials so we can make the cheapest cars possible.
And no I don't have a solution for greed which is what's currently motivating the EV industry. Like everything, good intentions can go awry and the main players continue to do what they always do which is make money. Nobody cares about the kid in the Congo or the dead rivers. It's green! But in reality it isn't yet. Hopefully things will change but I don't put that much faith in humanity. People want EV's for the lowest cost and unfortunately most don't have a clue what's going on to produce them. I think many would gladly pay more if that's what it would take to clean up the supply chain but Tesla and everyone else works hard to keep people from knowing the truth. The truth isn't good for business.
Some people care about these people, but some people care more about money and unfortunately they run the country and there's a market for what they sell. We close our eyes to the underpaid and third world labor that makes our clothes too, but the world is getting better over time, there is much evidence for this.
xtsho
Well-Known Member
I hope you're right. But it just seems that for every step forward we take a step back.
I'd like to see more development with hydrogen but the EV manufacturers are now pushing back on that just like the ICE manufacturers did for decades since it's a threat.
Elon Musk says the tech is 'mind-bogglingly stupid,' but hydrogen cars may yet threaten Tesla
Tesla and a growing list of competitors in the electric vehicle market dominate debate over the future of cars and recharging networks, but there's another kind of green transportation making inroads, based on the most abundant resource in the universe: hydrogen fuel cells.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Hydrogen doesn't make sense, but recent developments have made storage practical, production is the issue though. It might find a place in the future and this could help it. Also coating the inside of a hydrogen tank with a single layer of graphene makes it impervious to hydrogen leaking out.I hope you're right. But it just seems that for every step forward we take a step back.
I'd like to see more development with hydrogen but the EV manufacturers are now pushing back on that just like the ICE manufacturers did for decades since it's a threat.
Elon Musk says the tech is 'mind-bogglingly stupid,' but hydrogen cars may yet threaten Tesla
Tesla and a growing list of competitors in the electric vehicle market dominate debate over the future of cars and recharging networks, but there's another kind of green transportation making inroads, based on the most abundant resource in the universe: hydrogen fuel cells.www.cnbc.com
Here is a breakthrough for hydrogen storage.