I can not get this to work for the life of me. I understand chlorine can be dicey on plants and I saw that people were saying cannabis can handle up to 4-5ppm chlorine just fine in a sterile rez. I tried 2-4ppms. No luck. The roots refused to submerge. This is from seed with a rapid rooter. So I redo the rez without the chlorine, they're in the water the next day. So the next time, I tried 1ppm with a different plant. At no time did the chlorine exceed 1ppm. Still no luck. The roots always stop short of the water line and just sit there forever. I'm using plain bleach. Before you say, aha use pool shock instead, there's people saying the opposite. Pool shock wouldn't work for them, but bleach did. Anyway my question is - do you think it depends on the strain? There's obviously people doing sterile successfully. What's the trick to this root hesitancy?
Chlorine in DWC
- Thread starter Morph-F1
- Start date
Tolerance Break
Well-Known Member
Calcium Hypochlorite (pool shock) breaks down into calcium and chlorine. Bleach is probably sodium hypochloride, which is much more unstable and corrosive.
Are you sure its the bleach and not some other part of your system?
Are you sure its the bleach and not some other part of your system?
Def the bleach because like I said, I can redo the rez without beach and everything is fine. It could be the difference between bleach and shock but shock is tough to get and expensive nowadays. And Ive seen people saying they are doing sterile rez with bleach and they don't have this issue. I've tried it on 3 diff strains and genetics and none will enter the water. It's literally 1 drop of bleach per gallon and the plants know to stay away. The nutes I use are DynaGrow FoliagePro and protekt. When the ammoniacal nitrogen in there mixes with the chlorine, it forms chloramine. Could that be the problem? But wouldn't that happen to everyone else too?
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Tolerance Break
Well-Known Member
You can get a pound of HTH pool shock for less than 20 dollars and it will last years. Just check your local Walmart or Home depot website.
My only suggestion would be dropping down to 1 drop for every 2 gallons, or using h2o2 34% at 3-5 ml per gallon. That shit ain't cheap either, but its better than not having any weed.
Tolerance Break
Well-Known Member
I dont do DWC, however I have done alot of research into DWC as it is a style I plan on using one day, and I've read alot of the same info you have about people using bleach with success in their res.
The concentration of your bleach will also make a difference. 1 drop per gallon of 12% is 3x the amount of 4% bleach.
I am no expert on chemistry, but I know plants can take in calcium and hate salt. Roman's would literally "salt the earth" to make sure nobody could farm there. That is purely bro science conjecture on my part tho.
I would say, if you chose to try bleach again moving forward, lower the dosage by at least 50%.
I work for a chemical company and have a degree in chemistry. I've tried a bunch of different things and I have had the best luck with UC Roots. Yes, you can get HTH pool shock (calcium hypochlorite) and you can use bleach (sodium hypochlorite). However, both of those products when added to water turn into Hypochlorous Acid.. which is the active ingredient in UC Roots. UC Roots claims to simply be a de-mineralizer / anti scale.. which is true.. but I honestly think that is just some wordsmithing to get away from calling itself a "sanitizer" or "biocide". When you do that, you need to register with the EPA, create a label, conduct studies, etc. I found UC Roots to be very forgiving and it is already the active form of Hypochlorous acid. Yes, it is a lot more expensive than HTH; however if you buy a lb of HTH and accidentally get it wet.. it will ignite and cause a chemical fire releasing chlorine gas fumes and burn your house down. I have a small personal grow, 4 pot rDWC system.. and a $12.99 jug of UC roots last me my entire Grow. Not a big deal for the convenience.
My first grow I was using the Flora Nova line of nutrients and decided to complicate things and added some Floralicious. Big mistake.. within a few days my rootes were brown with nasty shit growing on them. I did a res change and added UC Roots at half the dose and within a few days my roots were perfect again. They did still have some staining but my understanding is that is from the Flora Nova Bloom.. super stainy.
You can certainly use 34% H202 as well.. it just doesnt last as long in the RES as UC ROOTS because it is so reactive and if you get 1 drop in your eye your eye will turn white forever and you will be blinded. UC Roots doesn't have that same danger. As a side note.. I have some weird EYE issues my doctor says is caused by wearing these fucking masks all day long and he told me to use AVENOVA Eyelid spray. Well guess whats in it? A 0.03% Hypochlorous acid solution. Yes it is super dilute but you can spray that shit right on your eye and it doesnt cause any issues.. it just breaks apart the gunk on your eyelid that can cause infections. TMI I know.. but i thought it was cool that I was prescribed the same shit im using on my garden.
UC Roots at half the dose recommended and keep it simple. Just use a 1-2 part Hydroponic approved nutrient line and NOTHING else except maybe some silica to help keep those stalks strong because the net pots do not provide the same stability as a large pot full of soil.. unless you build a trelis system (which I do anyways) because I like to grow 5-6' trees.
Below is a pic of my roots after i added Floralicious... after adding UC roots all the brown was gone within a few days and the plants were loving life.
My first grow I was using the Flora Nova line of nutrients and decided to complicate things and added some Floralicious. Big mistake.. within a few days my rootes were brown with nasty shit growing on them. I did a res change and added UC Roots at half the dose and within a few days my roots were perfect again. They did still have some staining but my understanding is that is from the Flora Nova Bloom.. super stainy.
You can certainly use 34% H202 as well.. it just doesnt last as long in the RES as UC ROOTS because it is so reactive and if you get 1 drop in your eye your eye will turn white forever and you will be blinded. UC Roots doesn't have that same danger. As a side note.. I have some weird EYE issues my doctor says is caused by wearing these fucking masks all day long and he told me to use AVENOVA Eyelid spray. Well guess whats in it? A 0.03% Hypochlorous acid solution. Yes it is super dilute but you can spray that shit right on your eye and it doesnt cause any issues.. it just breaks apart the gunk on your eyelid that can cause infections. TMI I know.. but i thought it was cool that I was prescribed the same shit im using on my garden.
UC Roots at half the dose recommended and keep it simple. Just use a 1-2 part Hydroponic approved nutrient line and NOTHING else except maybe some silica to help keep those stalks strong because the net pots do not provide the same stability as a large pot full of soil.. unless you build a trelis system (which I do anyways) because I like to grow 5-6' trees.
Below is a pic of my roots after i added Floralicious... after adding UC roots all the brown was gone within a few days and the plants were loving life.
thenasty1
Well-Known Member
how are you measuring this? are you certain your dosage calculations are correct? 1 ppm should not have that effect. i saw this behavior from roots when i first started running sterile reservoirs, and it turned out i was just redosing too frequently. if you dont have an orp meter, the smell test is pretty reliable- if it smells like bleach/a pool, leave it be. if it smells very strongly of bleach/a pool, you are dosing way too heavily. the sweet spot for the smell test is faint but noticeable
Thanks for the answer. So help me understand something. If UC Roots is the same thing as diluted bleach/shock, what accounts for the difference in the rez? I'm diluting it almost to zero. It's baffling to me. If you were to chlorine test your rez after a UC Roots dose, would it read less than 0.5ppm? In the past when I let the rez go for a day or two past a low reading like that, brown algae showed up right away.
With a standard pool kit. It's a visual test so there is some room for error but not much. My tap water measured less than 0.5ppm but you can see that there was some reaction from the test. Whereas my RODI water tested zero, no reaction whatsoever. A pool is like 3-4ppm chlorine. My cooler was between 0.5 and 1ppm the entire time. Also, I was using accurate dosing from this bleach calculator. I got the predicted results which makes me confident they are accurate.
Bleach Dilution Calculator
Our bleach dilution calculator will tell you how much chlorine and water you need to mix together to create your desired bleach concentration.
www.omnicalculator.com
xtsho
Well-Known Member
I used the original Clorox bleach with both flood and drain and DWC for years without any issues. The only issues I did have were prior to incorporating sodium hypochlorite into the nutrient solution. I went sterile after my first experience with root rot and never experienced it again.
Did you ever test to see what your ppm was? Were you growing from seed and your youngish roots hit the water no problem?
xtsho
Well-Known Member
I've always ran a low ppm but the small amount of chlorine I was using couldn't be detected with any reliability regardless of meter just due to such small amounts and variance. I was usually between 600/900 ppm 1.2-1.8 ec. It's not possible to measure the exact amount of chlorine with any reliability using standard measuring equipment. I think it was 2 drops per gallon. But it's been awhile so don't quote me on that. You can search for it. Maybe it was one drop. Whatever it was it took care of the root rot.
I'll never run hydro like that again but at the time years ago it worked just fine and chlorine is a widely used product in the hydro industry for many different crops and has been for years because it works.
So no more sterile for you? Can I ask why? I could use a reason to bail on it.
xtsho
Well-Known Member
Can you ask? Yes you can. Will I answer? Yes I will.
I was growing before legalization in a basement that had a drain and the floor sloped towards it. Several table and multiple lights. These were 1000 watt metal halide. There was quality weed being grown.
I don't do that now and that was years ago. I just grow my 4 plants and am happy with that. It's all I really need anyway. Some of it ends up in the compost heap when it gets too old as I'm not a big consumer of cannabis.
rkymtnman
Well-Known Member
what brand of bleach are you using?
and would you want to try pool shock instead? you will need a scale accurate to 0.01 grams ($30 bucks on ebay)
and i wanted clarity: are you saying the roots are somehow avoiding growing down into the solution? what happens if you raise the level so that they have to be in the bleach solution?
and would you want to try pool shock instead? you will need a scale accurate to 0.01 grams ($30 bucks on ebay)
and i wanted clarity: are you saying the roots are somehow avoiding growing down into the solution? what happens if you raise the level so that they have to be in the bleach solution?
Clorox bleach, regular, no additives, not the no-spill kind. So yeah, these are new plants with new roots that are just poking out of the rooter plug and descending toward the water line, approx 1-2 inches below. They look great, amazing. Then they just stop right before the water surface like they're scared. Then the roots slowly turn from white to beige. Some of them turn away or curl up. It seems like chlorine phytotoxicity, if that's a thing, but at 1ppm? I havent tried pool shock, you think that would make the difference? I have tried raising the water to force the roots in there, but they just stay there not doing anything, while the leaves above turn yellow and droopy.
Also, I'm using DynaGrow Foliage Pro. When the chlorine meets the nitrogen in that, it forms chloramine, which kinda bothered me at first. So when I measure the ppms with the pool kit, instead of free chlorine, it's measuring total chlorine because it's now bound up with nitrogen. I assume this is happening to everyone using chorine, no? Anyway, I was looking at this page. Do you see anything useful there?
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Honestly... if you add UC roots mid dosage to max dosage you dont need to test residuals or anything. When you do a new res change, add the dose again. I do a res change once every 1-2 weeks. Ever since I started using it I havent had a problem. Measuring chlorine at such low dosages is problematic in a variety of ways.. particularly with various nutrient solutions/additives. I think everyone tries to go the bennie route.. until they get root rot and then they go sterile and do not look back.
Hollatchaboy
Well-Known Member
I use clorox in dwc. I have no problems....
Don't use the splashless kind though.
Don't use the splashless kind though.
wingerdinger
Well-Known Member
I have ordered an orp meter for my recirculating flood and drain tray setup.
What would be a good reading to maintain sterile environment?
I have an auto dose pump, so looking to dial in a daily dose amount of pythoff(chlorine).