Clarification on what an R2 cross is?

mudballs

mudballs

Well-Known Member
PJ Diaz said:
Not necessarily, unless you tacitly assume that all plants are effectively F1's because they had parents.

Let's say that you had a pure indica female and a pure sativa female. You reverse one of them, and cross the two plants together. Aside from minor genetic variable differences, and the fact that all of the offspring will be female, how are said resulting offspring genetically any different than the offspring from a pure indica male and pure sativa female?
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I will be ur guide up this mountain..but i aint doing ur homework for you
 
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ALPHA.GanjaGuy

Well-Known Member
xtsho said:
You can't just have a free for all and anyone just making terminology up. It needs to be vetted by others and a consensus formed. That's one of the problems with cannabis. So much stuff is just made up without any regard for science or following any scientific method.
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I would argue this is possibly why it was made up, to help keep it cleaner in a scientific sense by offering a better way to track the lineage back and..

Someone has to start so other peers can argue the term..

and look, it worked, here we are debating if this term should be used.

Now science needs to catch up?
 
PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
ALPHA.GanjaGuy said:
Yes but wouldn't you at least like to have a heads up about the parental lineage if you were say planning to bread with that plant? hence why R1 is a good way to tell the difference?
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No, because it doesn't make a lick of difference to the breeding project whether or not the P1 was naturally male or was a reversed female.
 
PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
mudballs said:
I will be ur guide up this mountain..but i aint doing ur homework for you
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Did you read the pdf I posted for you yet? No one's asking you to do my homework. I asked you a very straight-forward question about the crux of your logic, and you refused to provide an answer, which means that your logic falls flat on it's face.
 
PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
ALPHA.GanjaGuy said:
I would argue this is possibly why it was made up, to help keep it cleaner in a scientific sense by offering a better way to track the lineage back and..

Someone has to start so other peers can argue the term..

and look, it worked, here we are debating if this term should be used.

Now science needs to catch up?
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If your concern here is tracing lineage back, that can easily be done through robust note taking and accurate genealogical charts. As with any genealogical chart, you would note whether each individual is male or female. This does not change when a female is reversed, it simply becomes a slightly different notation in identifying gender, ie: M vs F-reversed.
 
mudballs

mudballs

Well-Known Member
I guess you could use regular consanguinity
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No i didnt read ur link cuz the reason im in here answering ur questions is cuz i already went thru that shit enough that i can tell you it has nothing to do with this topic...which keeps getting yanked off into a tangential quest for kill points.. im done
 
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ALPHA.GanjaGuy

Well-Known Member
PJ Diaz said:
If your concern here is tracing lineage back, that can easily be done through robust note taking and accurate genealogical charts. As with any genealogical chart, you would note whether each individual is male or female. This does not change when a female is reversed, it simply becomes a slightly different notation in identifying gender, ie: M vs F-reversed.
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many people do not want to breed with feminized seeds so once again the R1 makes a nice clean way to look at a pack of seeds and say nope, I don't want S1/R1 in my project.
 
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ALPHA.GanjaGuy

Well-Known Member
plot twist, I just found this tidbit on google and wonder if it could have anything to do with Etho's thinking?

"Depending on this number of generations the seed is sold as a specific seed class. The most common commercial seed classes are C1 or R1 (certified seed first generation), C2 or R2 (certified seed second generation), R3 (in some countries) and QDS (quality declared seed) "
 
PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
mudballs said:
I guess you could use regular consanguinity
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No i didnt read ur link cuz the reason im in here answering ur questions is cuz i already went thru that shit enough that i can tell you it has nothing to do with this topic...which keeps getting yanked off into a tangential quest for kill points.. im done
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I posted a 60-page university study on plant dioecy, ecology, evolution, and sex reversal, but somehow you think it has nothing to do with the the breeding of dioecious plants using sex reversal? Um ok.
 
PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
ALPHA.GanjaGuy said:
many people do not want to breed with feminized seeds so once again the R1 makes a nice clean way to look at a pack of seeds and say nope, I don't want S1/R1 in my project.
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Who doesn't want to breed with feminized seeds, and why? I could understand not wanting an S1 in your breeding project, but why not an "R1"?
 
mudballs

mudballs

Well-Known Member
PJ Diaz said:
I posted a 60-page university study on plant dioecy, ecology, evolution, and sex reversal, but somehow you think it has nothing to do with the the breeding of dioecious plants using sex reversal? Um ok.
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Nothing to do with determining R2!! Fkn elementary shit...honestly...ur embarrassing urself today pj...fack man
 
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ALPHA.GanjaGuy

Well-Known Member
PJ Diaz said:
Who doesn't want to breed with feminized seeds, and why? I could understand not wanting an S1 in your breeding project, but why not an "R1"?
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The reason I have heard is you don't know how the breeder accomplished the selfing. It could have been chemically or by stressing and inducing herm. Hence some breeders refuse to and most places I have read suggest not breeding with fems or potentially have a higher risk that your project may end up with a higher occurrence of herming or bottle necking genetics, I do not claim to know more than what I have read and heard passed around re breeding with fems.
 
PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
mudballs said:
Nothing to do with determining R2!! Fkn elementary shit...honestly...ur embarrassing urself today pj...fack man
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That's because R2 isn't thing. I don't appreciate your insults. I had many opportunities in this thread to insult you, but I choose to maintain professionalism. Besides I thought you were done.
ALPHA.GanjaGuy said:
The reason I have heard is you don't know how the breeder accomplished the selfing. It could have been chemically or by stressing and inducing herm. Hence some breeders refuse to and most places I have read suggest not breeding with fems or potentially have a higher risk that your project may end up with a higher occurrence of herming or bottle necking genetics, I do not claim to know more than what I have read and heard passed around re breeding with fems.
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It won't make any difference in terms of genetics in how you reverse the plant. It is true that plants which naturally "herm" are more likely to produce offspring which carry on the trait, however if you take that same plant and reverse it with STS, the offspring won't be any less likely to herm vs "stress reversal". Any "breeders" who worry about this, don't understand the process.
 
mudballs

mudballs

Well-Known Member
You quoted, i was gone, you brought me back...cuz ihad to reply. Now you use a 60page study to attack me then say R1s arent a thing?
 
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