New mandate for drunk driving detection in all vehicles

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
Taxes pay for stop signs, and yes before you correct me, we all pay for them.
Taxes pay for children to be droned and innocent people to be bombed . Taxes pay for pot growers dogs to be shot, their children to be stolen from them and their houses to auctioned off.

Taxe pay for millions of people to be arrested prosecuted and jailed for a plethora of crimes.

Taxes pay for thug voyeur dupes to read your e-mails, listen to your phone calls and read things like this post.

Taxes pay for many things lots of people want nothing to do with and if you don't pay them, you will have your house stolen and be killed if you resist. Careful what you wish for,

There are other more peaceful ways for people to pay for the goods and services they want, without mixing in the "bads and disservices" they don't want.
 

hillbill

Well-Known Member
Voluntary compliance to taxes and laws seems just like Anarchy devolving to Totalitarian Libertarian Oligarchy.
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
Voluntary compliance to taxes and laws seems just like Anarchy devolving to Totalitarian Libertarian Oligarchy.
You are mixing meanings of words.

A tax is not a voluntary concept, it's a mandatory concept backed by threats of force. There is no mutual and voluntary exchange. Backed with a gun.

A payment for a desired service is (should be) a mutual exchange, wherein both parties make and fulfill an agreement because both hope to benefit and nobody has been coerced. Backed by agreement.

Have you been smoking marijuana this morning?
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
That’s where all right turns end up.
Voluntary exchanges are neither "left or right". They are peaceful and voluntary and only require the absence of duress.

All "right and left" politically never abandon duress / coercion, it's a corner stone of both political viewpoints.
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
Voluntary funding then.
Picky
Picky
You buy things from a grocery store thru voluntary exchange. But, you can chose which grocery store to use or grow your own or buy from a farmer etc.

Congratulations, you get it...sometimes...you Voluntaryist you!!!
 

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
so, here it is, ACLU is raising privacy concerns about the congressional mandate as @Hook Daddy said.


Congressional Drunk Driver Detection Mandate Raises Privacy Questions
The vague mandate leaves the door wide open for intrusion and the collection of sensitive data.


Congress has mandated that starting later this decade, all cars must have a built-in ability to detect drunk drivers and to disable their cars. However, Congress left the Department of Transportation wide latitude to figure out how best to implement such a technology, creating a very real potential that we’ll end up with a system that could be a privacy disaster.

The measure, which was included in the $1.5 trillion infrastructure bill signed by President Biden last week, says vehicles must be equipped with “advanced drunk and impaired driving prevention technology.” What is that? Nobody really knows, but Congress defines it as a system that can either “passively monitor the performance of a driver” to detect if they are impaired, or “passively and accurately detect” whether the driver’s blood alcohol level is above the legal limit. If impairment or an illegal blood alcohol limit is detected, the system is required to “prevent or limit motor vehicle operation.”


The article goes on to discuss the different ways to passively monitor a driver to detect drunk driving. It all sounds fantastic (as in fantasy) to me. This is not something already available. To me, this bill is intended to stimulate research by the auto makers into how to do it. I'm skeptical. Not that I'm saying it can't be done but need more proof before I'd go down the path of decrying "loss of privacy". We don't know what the tech entails.

The ACLU seems to be proactively raising the privacy issue because privacy is not yet at risk. Regulations haven't even been written yet. The provision in the spending bill calls for regulations in three years. As the ACLU says in this article:

"That means there will likely be many years in which to consider this issue and to debate how it’s implemented. We will be carefully watching every step of the way." Dudes and Dudettes, this article is a request for funding. I send them money every year. If you support what the ACLU is doing, including tracking developments like this, I hope you do too.

I'm skeptical, not cynical. I don't believe our government is pushing this in order to monitor us while in our cars, like Big Brother in Orwell's 1984. That would be cynical. I'm skeptical because I doubt this kind of passive monitoring system can be done within the time allowed. I don't see reason to be alarmed because we can't read regulations that haven't been written. But we should be ready to look them over when they are available. I'm also for research into tech that makes everybody safer. So, if congress is mandating research into better ways to prevent drunk driving, I'm not against it. Car companies probably would not fund this kind of research without this mandate, so, I don't see reason for much concern at this time.

That said, I completely support concerns the ACLU has regarding potenial invasion of privacy in this measure but not JUST this measure. If people are concerned about privacy -- which some on this thread voice concern over due to the unregulated invasion of privacy already taking place -- maybe a good start would be calling your congressional representation in DC and voicing support for H.R.5807, Digital Accountability and Transparency to Advance Privacy Act or the DATA Privacy Act
they have a system they can put into a car if you have a problem with drunk driving. they've had it for quite a while, and no one shit themselves over it. it does require that you prove you have a problem first, before they will put one on your car, but we don't preemptively try to stop any other crimes.
the system now only checks for blood alcohol. a small camera could be added, that would make sure the right person is activating it, which is the only workaround to it i'm aware of..
are automakers going to be forced to be information collection agents for the government, or anyone else? are they going to make our vehicles tattle on us? then there is going to be a HUGE aftermarket for ways to get around that...the government will end up watching the same looped footage of one very sober guy driving very alertly, from about 50 million vehicles at a time
 

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
Teslas have seatbelts. Teslas are safer for kids than school buses...
The Tesla itself yes, but in auto driving mode, perhaps not. How many auto drivers are out there to compare numbers with. I don't trust people to drive well, but frankly I still trust them to drive better than I trust AI to drive. I get it that you're a Tesla fanboy, and they are nice vehicles, but not without their shortcomings. Your inability to see said shortcomings, simply shows your same inability to be objective.
 

doublejj

Well-Known Member
The Tesla itself yes, but in auto driving mode, perhaps not. How many auto drivers are out there to compare numbers with. I don't trust people to drive well, but frankly I still trust them to drive better than I trust AI to drive. I get it that you're a Tesla fanboy, and they are nice vehicles, but not without their shortcomings. Your inability to see said shortcomings, simply shows your same inability to be objective.
AI driven cars statically safer than people driven cars......period. Your inability to do math is showing
 

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
AI driven cars statically safer than people driven cars......period. Your inability to do math is showing
you sure bout that?
https://www.natlawreview.com/article/dangers-driverless-cars

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/are-autonomous-cars-really-safer-than-human-drivers/

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-62598618

these^ are from sources i trust...
every story i can find touting the safety of self driving cars is put out by people with a vested interest in them succeeding...
 

doublejj

Well-Known Member
you sure bout that?
https://www.natlawreview.com/article/dangers-driverless-cars

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/are-autonomous-cars-really-safer-than-human-drivers/

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-62598618

these^ are from sources i trust...
every story i can find touting the safety of self driving cars is put out by people with a vested interest in them succeeding...
how many times has a drunk AI car killed anyone?.....or fallen asleep? AI cars see 360deg, can you?
 

doublejj

Well-Known Member
Tesla posts it's driving data as pure statistics. Miles driven without accidents is not a story it's fact
 

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
so you won't read the three articles i posted that say tesla may be full of shit?....ok....believe musk, he has certainly always been completely honest and above board, no reason for him to lie...
 

doublejj

Well-Known Member
The stories you posted are from entities with a vested interests.... like ambulance chasing lawyers
"As technology and legislation involving self-driving vehicles become more and more complex, so will legal cases. If you or your loved one has been involved in a crash involving a self-driving car, you need an attorney who understands the legal, technical, and legislative complexities."
 
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