War

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Somebody needs to “ eliminate “ this shopping list of trash.

Their HQ looks like a good target for a few Ukrainian drones, just to give em a taste. They have gas engine powered GPS guided ones that can go the distance and make a big enough bang. Send in a swarm at treetop level with each one packing the same explosive punch as a 155mm shell. I wonder what those new tungsten ball warheads the HIMARS uses weigh, they can kill a lot of assholes over a wide area, probably too heavy for a long-range drone though. If the press knows this much about them, Ukrainian intelligence knows a lot more.
 

printer

Well-Known Member
Their HQ looks like a good target for a few Ukrainian drones, just to give em a taste. They have gas engine powered GPS guided ones that can go the distance and make a big enough bang. Send in a swarm at treetop level with each one packing the same explosive punch as a 155mm shell. I wonder what those new tungsten ball warheads the HIMARS uses weigh, they can kill a lot of assholes over a wide area, probably too heavy for a long-range drone though. If the press knows this much about them, Ukrainian intelligence knows a lot more.
They have enough downed Iranian drones. I am sure with a little CA they could piece one together and drop in on them.

Only 29 percent of GOP voters say US has an obligation to help Ukraine: poll
A Morning Consult poll released on Monday found that only 29 percent of registered GOP respondents believe the U.S. has an obligation to help Ukraine in its conflict with Russia.

By comparison, 56 percent of registered Democrats and 38 percent of independents believe that the U.S. has a responsibility to assist Kyiv in the war.

Overall, 42 percent of respondents believe that the U.S. has an obligation to help Ukraine, according to the survey.

When asked about relocating Ukrainian citizens to live in the U.S., 63 percent of respondents said that they support such a move, including 78 percent of registered Democratic respondents, 61 percent of independent ones and 49 percent of Republicans.

The Morning Consult poll was conducted from Oct. 22 to Oct. 23 among 2,200 respondents. The survey’s margin of error is 2 percentage points.

Support for Ukraine in its nine-month war against Russia has remained relatively strong across both U.S. parties, though cracks have begun to emerge, particularly over the issue of cost. Washington has provided Ukraine with billions of dollars in military and nonmilitary assistance this year.

House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif) said in an interview last week that Republicans will not write “a blank check” to Kyiv if they seize the majority in next month’s midterms, prompting President Biden to say he feared for the future of U.S. support.
“I am worried about it because they said they would cut it,” Biden said.

So much for the give-up-your-nukes-treaty.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
They have enough downed Iranian drones. I am sure with a little CA they could piece one together and drop in on them.

Only 29 percent of GOP voters say US has an obligation to help Ukraine: poll
A Morning Consult poll released on Monday found that only 29 percent of registered GOP respondents believe the U.S. has an obligation to help Ukraine in its conflict with Russia.

By comparison, 56 percent of registered Democrats and 38 percent of independents believe that the U.S. has a responsibility to assist Kyiv in the war.

Overall, 42 percent of respondents believe that the U.S. has an obligation to help Ukraine, according to the survey.

When asked about relocating Ukrainian citizens to live in the U.S., 63 percent of respondents said that they support such a move, including 78 percent of registered Democratic respondents, 61 percent of independent ones and 49 percent of Republicans.

The Morning Consult poll was conducted from Oct. 22 to Oct. 23 among 2,200 respondents. The survey’s margin of error is 2 percentage points.

Support for Ukraine in its nine-month war against Russia has remained relatively strong across both U.S. parties, though cracks have begun to emerge, particularly over the issue of cost. Washington has provided Ukraine with billions of dollars in military and nonmilitary assistance this year.

House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif) said in an interview last week that Republicans will not write “a blank check” to Kyiv if they seize the majority in next month’s midterms, prompting President Biden to say he feared for the future of U.S. support.
“I am worried about it because they said they would cut it,” Biden said.

So much for the give-up-your-nukes-treaty.
A lot depends on the polling question, if it was asked if they support the war, instead of being obliged to, more would agree with the Ukrainian position. I think most who support the war feel more strongly about it than most of those who oppose, who are fewer in number. Some democrats blurted out about negotiating with Putin, but I think the reaction will kinda shock them, it is a dumb idea that will snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. I also don't think as much support will be required moving forward, as the Russian forces collapse, and the weather turns cold and wet. Europe can and will finish the job, if required, they seem committed now. There would have to be a lot of people at any negotiating table, the Europeans and especially the Ukrainians. Besides Vlad can't be negotiated with, he must be defeated and driven from power or tossed out a window, perhaps both.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
They have enough downed Iranian drones. I am sure with a little CA they could piece one together and drop in on them.

Only 29 percent of GOP voters say US has an obligation to help Ukraine: poll
A Morning Consult poll released on Monday found that only 29 percent of registered GOP respondents believe the U.S. has an obligation to help Ukraine in its conflict with Russia.

By comparison, 56 percent of registered Democrats and 38 percent of independents believe that the U.S. has a responsibility to assist Kyiv in the war.

Overall, 42 percent of respondents believe that the U.S. has an obligation to help Ukraine, according to the survey.

When asked about relocating Ukrainian citizens to live in the U.S., 63 percent of respondents said that they support such a move, including 78 percent of registered Democratic respondents, 61 percent of independent ones and 49 percent of Republicans.

The Morning Consult poll was conducted from Oct. 22 to Oct. 23 among 2,200 respondents. The survey’s margin of error is 2 percentage points.

Support for Ukraine in its nine-month war against Russia has remained relatively strong across both U.S. parties, though cracks have begun to emerge, particularly over the issue of cost. Washington has provided Ukraine with billions of dollars in military and nonmilitary assistance this year.

House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif) said in an interview last week that Republicans will not write “a blank check” to Kyiv if they seize the majority in next month’s midterms, prompting President Biden to say he feared for the future of U.S. support.
“I am worried about it because they said they would cut it,” Biden said.

So much for the give-up-your-nukes-treaty.
Someone should poll the US military and those who know how much it costs every year to counter the Russian threat. Uncle Sam is getting a bargain, contracting out the Russian military's destruction for a pittance and no American blood. They are now better prepared to deal with China and soon will not need to worry about Europe. Most of the military aid was long since paid for and much was due for replacement with newer improved generations of weapons systems. A lot of what was used to kill Russians with was made and paid for by them, all those soviet weapons. In the end, between their own weapons and their seized hundreds of billions stashed in the west, they will pay for their own destruction and Ukrainian reconstruction.

And everybody lived happily ever after, except the Russians, who would be fucked and most unhappy. Vlad wouldn't be anything, he would be dead and blamed for the fiasco.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
In a year those half a million or so who left Russia over the war, including dodging the draft, might not want to go back to an economic wasteland, unemployment and desperate poverty. That's assuming Russia is at peace, externally and internally, or they could get drafted by another regime for another war. Not many will return if Putin is still in power, and the war continues or spreads to other places like Belarus or Georgia.
 

Lucky Luke

Well-Known Member
They have enough downed Iranian drones. I am sure with a little CA they could piece one together and drop in on them.

Only 29 percent of GOP voters say US has an obligation to help Ukraine: poll
A Morning Consult poll released on Monday found that only 29 percent of registered GOP respondents believe the U.S. has an obligation to help Ukraine in its conflict with Russia.

By comparison, 56 percent of registered Democrats and 38 percent of independents believe that the U.S. has a responsibility to assist Kyiv in the war.

Overall, 42 percent of respondents believe that the U.S. has an obligation to help Ukraine, according to the survey.

When asked about relocating Ukrainian citizens to live in the U.S., 63 percent of respondents said that they support such a move, including 78 percent of registered Democratic respondents, 61 percent of independent ones and 49 percent of Republicans.

The Morning Consult poll was conducted from Oct. 22 to Oct. 23 among 2,200 respondents. The survey’s margin of error is 2 percentage points.

Support for Ukraine in its nine-month war against Russia has remained relatively strong across both U.S. parties, though cracks have begun to emerge, particularly over the issue of cost. Washington has provided Ukraine with billions of dollars in military and nonmilitary assistance this year.

House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif) said in an interview last week that Republicans will not write “a blank check” to Kyiv if they seize the majority in next month’s midterms, prompting President Biden to say he feared for the future of U.S. support.
“I am worried about it because they said they would cut it,” Biden said.

So much for the give-up-your-nukes-treaty.
Must be costing the US a shit load.
Not surprising, guess it would be about the same here. Fuel price is crazy and people just want the stock market to start climbing, inflation to stop and house prices to drop and stabilize and rents to drop. People are not even talking about the Ukraine war.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Here who is gonna pay, for those concerned with "all the money" being invested in Ukraine, which is a joke compared to the money spent over the last 10 years to deal with the Russian threat and Russian supported terrorism and strongmen. Russia and Russians have more than enough money stashed abroad to cover the costs and pay back any loans or even aid. People are complaining about a war the Russians have been paying for and will pay for in its entirety. Most of the weapons used were made and paid for by the Russians or their grandfathers and the western stuff was paid for decades ago in previous military budgets, and much was approaching the end of its useful life.

As far as America and Europe are concerned this will end up being a "free war", the Russians will not only lose, but they will also pay the entire shot, including compensation to Ukrainians for the damage caused and the lives lost. We already have their governments and kleptocrats cash in our banks and other investment instruments.

Material damages thus far to Ukraine are in the $150 billion range according to reliable estimates.

 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member

Why Natural Gas Prices in Europe Are Suddenly Plunging
A combination of full storage, lower demand and mild weather, among other factors, has eased concerns of a spike in heating and power prices — for now.

The war in Ukraine is raging, Russian natural gas exports to Europe are dwindling and the winter heating season is approaching. That would seem like a recipe for higher prices, yet the cost of the fuel, which is vital for heating homes and for powering electricity plants and industry, has been plummeting.

The benchmark European price of natural gas this week fell to a level that is more than 70 percent below its record high in August. One of the main reasons for the plunge in prices is that Europe, at least for now, has all the natural gas it needs.
That is because over the summer, Europe went on a global buying spree as Russia, its longtime main supplier, reduced its flow of natural gas.

Across the continent, governments and businesses have aggressively replenished how much gas they are holding in storage. At the urging of European Union officials and at a high cost, energy companies and governments have filled underground caverns and other facilities to more than 90 percent of capacity, compared with less than 80 percent year ago.

Companies that sell natural gas, driven by the high prices, flooded the European market. Special ships with huge amounts of liquefied natural gas, or L.N.G., raced to Europe from the United States, Qatar and other countries (including Russia) that produce large amounts of gas.

The rush to sell to Europe was so great that vessels are now loitering off the coast waiting for slots at crowded terminals to unload their cargoes. One illustration of the glut: In recent days, at least one L.N.G. carrier heading from Algeria to Europe appears to have diverted to Asia in search of a better price, according to Laura Page, an analyst at Kpler, a research firm.

Europe’s healthy stocks of gas represent a substantial buffer against further cutoffs of Russian supplies or other shocks.

“You’ve got storage levels that people could only dream of a few months ago,” Massimo Di Odoardo, vice president for gas research at Wood Mackenzie, a consulting firm.

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At the same time, the demand for natural gas, which serves as a major source of power to generate the electricity that Europe consumes, has fallen sharply, another factor pulling prices down. A warmer-than-usual start to autumn in many parts of Europe has meant that residents have not needed to use much, if any, heat.

But analysts warn that the recent drop in gas prices could be fleeting — natural gas that is set to be delivered to Europe this winter is already being sold in futures markets at a considerable markup to the current price. The unusually large swings in prices that have come as Russia constricted gas supplies in recent months are likely to continue.

Gas prices in Europe remain historically elevated, even after the recent decline, trading at twice the level set at this time a year ago and even higher versus long-term averages.

As a result, many energy-hungry businesses like aluminum smelters, steel mills and fertilizer plants have at least temporarily shut down. In Italy, a large gas consumer, demand for the fuel in August and September was down about 10 percent compared with the same months a year ago.

The threat of regulation has also weighed on markets, analysts say. The European Union’s recent agreement to impose a ceiling on gas prices, while still lacking in detail, is probably lowering prices, analysts say.

But in the short run, lower prices may cause their own sort of pain, according to Henning Gloystein, a director at Eurasia Group, a political risk firm.

European utilities, which are in the business of buying gas to generate electricity and sell to customers, have already taken losses because of the cutoff of Russian gas and may have ordered expensive L.N.G. to compensate for the lost supplies. Now, because of lower-than-expected demand, they could be stuck with the fuel. “That may force some utilities to sell their expensive cargoes much more cheaply elsewhere, perhaps causing big fiscal damage,” Mr. Gloystein said.

Lower gas prices could also weaken the incentive for developing more expensive clean fuels like hydrogen. What’s more, it could act as a brake on re-engineering commodities markets to break the link between electric power and natural gas, although some analysts say that is inevitable.

“The ball is rolling and I believe that there is widespread acceptance of the need for change,” said Martin Young, a London-based analyst at Investec, an investment bank.

And experts say it is too soon to get comfortable about the prospects for cheaper gas, since markets are reacting to circumstances that may not last. Futures prices for natural gas for delivery in January and February of 2023 are trading more than 40 percent higher than for November.

Prices might be tested if Russia cut off the remaining flows of gas to Europe through Ukraine or if there was sabotage of energy infrastructure, like the unexplained ruptures in the Nord Stream pipelines that run from Russia to Germany.
Then there is the weather. “The test will come when we have the first cold snap and storage starts to empty,” said Jonathan Stern, the founder of the gas program at the Oxford Institute for Energy Studies. “We will see how the market reacts to that.”
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
More old Hawks, better than scraping them and why they haven't been sent before is a mystery, I think Uncle Sam has them in storage at this point. Why hang onto Hawks, they are purely defensive? Maybe they don't work so well with drones, cruise and ballistic missiles, manned aircraft are few over cities and territory they don't control.

Maybe a reason to mete out enough stuff to Ukraine to do the job is to have enough reseve for trouble over Tawain? However, they are an industrial and high-tech powerhouse and could mass produce almost any western weapons system or its equivalent on their own and most likely are now. China gets all its high-end computer chips from Tawain, and we get plenty too. They would not be alone either, other southeast Asian countries would support them, just as Europe is supporting Ukraine, among them would be Japan and South Korea along with Vietnam and others, not to mention America, Canada, Australia, the UK and NZ.

 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Negotiate with this? Some democrats in boxes and computers are gonna be white hot and their phones will be ringing off their hooks and should be. I'm not pro war, I'm anti this shit and willing to see those responsible killed for it and driven from Ukraine. If that means this war goes on and moves on to other places until Putin is gone, I'm fine with that too, people have a right to fight for their own fates, if their votes don't count with an autocratic imperialist dictator. I'm also willing to pay for it because it's a bargain, considering what we will get and it's the best bet we've had against autocracy in a very long time. Vlad caused a lot of death and disharmony all over the world and attacked almost every liberal democracy on the planet using the internet and Russian hackers as cyber privateers. Vlad made a lot of enemies, not just Uncle Sam, and he deserves every one of them. Friends come and go, but enemies accumulate, and nobody forgets this kind of shit, especially the Ukrainians, this kid won't forget, and neither will his relatives.

 

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member

Why Natural Gas Prices in Europe Are Suddenly Plunging
A combination of full storage, lower demand and mild weather, among other factors, has eased concerns of a spike in heating and power prices — for now.

The war in Ukraine is raging, Russian natural gas exports to Europe are dwindling and the winter heating season is approaching. That would seem like a recipe for higher prices, yet the cost of the fuel, which is vital for heating homes and for powering electricity plants and industry, has been plummeting.

The benchmark European price of natural gas this week fell to a level that is more than 70 percent below its record high in August. One of the main reasons for the plunge in prices is that Europe, at least for now, has all the natural gas it needs.
That is because over the summer, Europe went on a global buying spree as Russia, its longtime main supplier, reduced its flow of natural gas.

Across the continent, governments and businesses have aggressively replenished how much gas they are holding in storage. At the urging of European Union officials and at a high cost, energy companies and governments have filled underground caverns and other facilities to more than 90 percent of capacity, compared with less than 80 percent year ago.

Companies that sell natural gas, driven by the high prices, flooded the European market. Special ships with huge amounts of liquefied natural gas, or L.N.G., raced to Europe from the United States, Qatar and other countries (including Russia) that produce large amounts of gas.

The rush to sell to Europe was so great that vessels are now loitering off the coast waiting for slots at crowded terminals to unload their cargoes. One illustration of the glut: In recent days, at least one L.N.G. carrier heading from Algeria to Europe appears to have diverted to Asia in search of a better price, according to Laura Page, an analyst at Kpler, a research firm.

Europe’s healthy stocks of gas represent a substantial buffer against further cutoffs of Russian supplies or other shocks.

“You’ve got storage levels that people could only dream of a few months ago,” Massimo Di Odoardo, vice president for gas research at Wood Mackenzie, a consulting firm.

View attachment 5217443

At the same time, the demand for natural gas, which serves as a major source of power to generate the electricity that Europe consumes, has fallen sharply, another factor pulling prices down. A warmer-than-usual start to autumn in many parts of Europe has meant that residents have not needed to use much, if any, heat.

But analysts warn that the recent drop in gas prices could be fleeting — natural gas that is set to be delivered to Europe this winter is already being sold in futures markets at a considerable markup to the current price. The unusually large swings in prices that have come as Russia constricted gas supplies in recent months are likely to continue.

Gas prices in Europe remain historically elevated, even after the recent decline, trading at twice the level set at this time a year ago and even higher versus long-term averages.

As a result, many energy-hungry businesses like aluminum smelters, steel mills and fertilizer plants have at least temporarily shut down. In Italy, a large gas consumer, demand for the fuel in August and September was down about 10 percent compared with the same months a year ago.

The threat of regulation has also weighed on markets, analysts say. The European Union’s recent agreement to impose a ceiling on gas prices, while still lacking in detail, is probably lowering prices, analysts say.

But in the short run, lower prices may cause their own sort of pain, according to Henning Gloystein, a director at Eurasia Group, a political risk firm.

European utilities, which are in the business of buying gas to generate electricity and sell to customers, have already taken losses because of the cutoff of Russian gas and may have ordered expensive L.N.G. to compensate for the lost supplies. Now, because of lower-than-expected demand, they could be stuck with the fuel. “That may force some utilities to sell their expensive cargoes much more cheaply elsewhere, perhaps causing big fiscal damage,” Mr. Gloystein said.

Lower gas prices could also weaken the incentive for developing more expensive clean fuels like hydrogen. What’s more, it could act as a brake on re-engineering commodities markets to break the link between electric power and natural gas, although some analysts say that is inevitable.

“The ball is rolling and I believe that there is widespread acceptance of the need for change,” said Martin Young, a London-based analyst at Investec, an investment bank.

And experts say it is too soon to get comfortable about the prospects for cheaper gas, since markets are reacting to circumstances that may not last. Futures prices for natural gas for delivery in January and February of 2023 are trading more than 40 percent higher than for November.

Prices might be tested if Russia cut off the remaining flows of gas to Europe through Ukraine or if there was sabotage of energy infrastructure, like the unexplained ruptures in the Nord Stream pipelines that run from Russia to Germany.
Then there is the weather. “The test will come when we have the first cold snap and storage starts to empty,” said Jonathan Stern, the founder of the gas program at the Oxford Institute for Energy Studies. “We will see how the market reacts to that.”
perhaps causing big fiscal damage....to oil companies...so who gives a motherfuck about their big fiscal damage?
they fucking played the game and lost a few bucks for once, they can get fucked in each ear separately.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
then why the fuck didn't Poland stop the motherfucker? who is allies with who in Europe? all the weaseling is getting me confused
Eastern Europe, or anybody who lived under Russia's thumb are rabidly pro Ukrainian and the central Asian former republics are getting nervous too. Russia is losing influence in Georgia and peace is breaking out there followed by a pipeline. Western Europe has come around since the gas has been mostly cut off, their reserves are full, the Ukrainian success on the battlefield and confidence has grown that they can defeat the Russians then drive them from their country soon, including Crimea. Control of Crimea means control of the Black Sea, along with Turkey and is in Europe's vital interests, Turkey's too in the long run, which is why they are building naval ships for Ukraine and building a drone factory there. They still get most of their oil from Russia and are in a dire economic situation. I still think undeveloped Ukrainian oil and NG reserves, including Crimea are the elephant in the room that no one is talking about, there is plenty for Europe's needs, if developed. Turkey can either get some from Ukraine or through Georgia with a pipeline to the Caspian Sea, energy diversity is a good thing.

So, places like the former Warsaw pact members and Soviet republics are the most anti-Russian, while western places like Germany (not the population) are somewhat reluctant. Places like Finland, Norway and Sweden want to see Russia weakened as much as possible and their threat reduced. The US, Canada and the UK want Vlad's ass and to get to the root of the problem and also support Ukraine for a variety of reasons, getting rid of Putin being one of them. They want a lot of Russian body bags delivered back home to make the point. Otherwise, they would take out the rail transport network into Ukraine at vulnerable points.

On some levels this war doesn't make any sense, if you just want to defeat Russia quickly and drive them from Ukraine ASAP. The plan must be to reduce them over time, suck them in, and bleed them white slowly, while ensnaring them in a war they cannot win and dare not lose. I guess Vlad is all in now and it's time to close the noose, or it sure seems that way. The conscription and the returning body bags along with an economy going to shit will cause a lot of trouble for Putin, Russian POWs would be an even bigger problem.
 
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DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
perhaps causing big fiscal damage....to oil companies...so who gives a motherfuck about their big fiscal damage?
they fucking played the game and lost a few bucks for once, they can get fucked in each ear separately.
Fuck the oil companies, the real news is Europe might not freeze this winter and support for Ukraine won't suffer, we could have a mild winter, so far up here it's been 18C most days, same for Europe I hear. It means time to adapt to new sources too and gives them another year of breathing room. It's very bad news for Russia.
 
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