400 HPS vs Spider Farmer SF 2000 Pro
- Thread starter herjack24
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ProPheT 216
Well-Known Member
You can fit 2 under the sf 2000 and grow 2 nice plants. 400w is enough for 2 plants not really 3. And the foot print of those lights don't spread far enough to fit a 3rd either
alaskanthunderf
New Member
It would be helpful if you Tell the available space rather than the Number of plants,
No one should Use HPS Lights any more For many reasons.
No one should Use HPS Lights any more For many reasons.
Rocket Soul
Well-Known Member
Led or hps? you could structure this decision by what is easier for you: keeping the led tent over 80 degrees or keeping the hos tent under 80 degrees. While hps has a top temperature for good growth leds have a minimum temp. Remember to factor in plants and transpiration, if you can barely keep your led temps at 80F without plants then your temps will be lower once you got transpiring plants in there.
The two lights are going to have a similar light output
The two lights are going to have a similar light output
alaskanthunderf
New Member
Sorry but 400w for 2 or 3 plants even with LST isnt worth it in my opionion. The Hps draws even more about 415-435w Out of the Wall. For 3 plants ? No way! Buddy of Mine used to have at least 10 plants below 400w Hps in the old Hps Times and worked Out fine with a good reflector, He should definitely Go with an LED , that spiderfarmer should work, but there are better Options, depends on Budget.
Rocket Soul
Well-Known Member
You have to factor in all power consumption; both light and climate control. If you end up adding another 200w in heating that spider farmer consumes the same amount in total.
Im not a hps troll, use led for our grow, but sometimes hps has its place in the grow though id probably prefer cmh if forced to go with HID.
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alaskanthunderf
New Member
Thats true but he only asked Hps 400 or sf200 For 3 plants didnt Sound Like heat Output Matters regarding His decision And therefore of course Led over Hps
DanKiller
Well-Known Member
400W hps makes 55K LM+, the SF2000 Makes 40K LM and that's at 100% setting, if you plan to be on the 70-80% range that's 30K LM, almost half the output of HPS.
That's why in real practice leds need to be rather close to their HIDs counterparts in wattage in order to achieve same output, not 50% less like in theory, well not yet
So lower light output for the LED even at 100%
Price is also a factor of the system, hid will cost pennis, leds not so much.
Also heat is a big factor, if you can't maintain it don't go led, it will only get worse.
Plant count don't mean nothing, perfect growing conditions are more to aspire to
Leds main advantage is heat reduction and spreading light more efficiently opposed to HIDs reflectors, even though there's some critical choices to be made in reflector buying
If you use a up to 3x3 tent a 400w hps is very good, 4x4 go 600w, some even venture into the 1000w range at that size but it all depends on your needs and restrictions.
That's why in real practice leds need to be rather close to their HIDs counterparts in wattage in order to achieve same output, not 50% less like in theory, well not yet
So lower light output for the LED even at 100%
Price is also a factor of the system, hid will cost pennis, leds not so much.
Also heat is a big factor, if you can't maintain it don't go led, it will only get worse.
Plant count don't mean nothing, perfect growing conditions are more to aspire to
Leds main advantage is heat reduction and spreading light more efficiently opposed to HIDs reflectors, even though there's some critical choices to be made in reflector buying
If you use a up to 3x3 tent a 400w hps is very good, 4x4 go 600w, some even venture into the 1000w range at that size but it all depends on your needs and restrictions.
Kushash
Well-Known Member
It's difficult to have a serious conversation on this topic because of all the parrots posting.
In real life every time there is a competition in the winter there are a % of LED growers always complaining about small plants and blaming the temps.
Never hear the hps growers complain about temps or yield in the winter comps. The most recent one on chuckers that just ended resulted with the same results. A number of LED growers complained about small plants due to temps. There were also a number of LED growers dialed in with excellent yields. In every comp LED and HPS growers get along, unlike the majority of these threads.
It's a shame intelligent member like you have to mention they are not trolls when stating facts to a biased crowd. I think most growers who see a use for both types of light stay away from this debate these days.
Rocket Soul
Well-Known Member
Yeah well i am one of those led believers but i realize it may not work for everybody. The tricky thing with led is that you really have to be able to dial in your climate, especially in an open space which is our situation, its just so much harder to keep the space hot enough, especially during veg and transition when you dont use full power.
Never grown with leds in a tent but it seems some have effort less success while some struggle, my hypothesis is that some situations where watts, tent size and outside of tent climate ( be it your flat or outside if taking air from the outside) just comes together for a nice and easy crop.
OP: you could also consider using both lights at the same time, many have had success this way. Its more consumption and maybe a bigger tent but the two light would defo fit 3-4 plants underneath.
BTW i dont have to mention not being a hps troll, just thought id might just incase of someone misunderstanding this discussion as a "whats best" rather than "which would work better in what situation". I dont think anybodys trolling here though, all in good faith.
coreywebster
Well-Known Member
The way I'd look at it,
Sf2000 is a 200w light, recommended for 2x4, it's not really enough for that space in reality.
A 400hps, you could use it in a 3x3 , still weak though. Probably ideal for 2.5x2.5ft.
Even the shape of space you have to work with is a factor.
The ambient temperature would be my biggest decision maker.. for reason already discussed.
Plant count isn't a thing if you consider you could fill either of those spaces with 1 plant or run 4 per square foot ..
LED and HPS and CMH all grow great weed used in the right way.
There are basement grows, loft grows , high ambient temps, low ambient temps.. and everything in-between.
Sf2000 is a 200w light, recommended for 2x4, it's not really enough for that space in reality.
A 400hps, you could use it in a 3x3 , still weak though. Probably ideal for 2.5x2.5ft.
Even the shape of space you have to work with is a factor.
The ambient temperature would be my biggest decision maker.. for reason already discussed.
Plant count isn't a thing if you consider you could fill either of those spaces with 1 plant or run 4 per square foot ..
LED and HPS and CMH all grow great weed used in the right way.
There are basement grows, loft grows , high ambient temps, low ambient temps.. and everything in-between.
jimihendrix1
Well-Known Member
When they first came out with HID for growing weed, it was a 1000w Metal Halide, that came from the nuclear sub program. They grew their own veggies, as they wouldnt come up for months on end, so they needed fresh veggies.
This bulb was extremely fragile, and they wouldnt warranty it in shipping. 6 months later, they came out with a more rugged 1000w HID, named the Super Nova. Which they would guarantee it would survive shipping.
But to make a long story short. As long as I can remember, 1000w HID, has always been recommended to use in a 4 x 4 area, and is just within the last decade or so, I see some recommending a 600w for a 4 x 4, when, these came out, manufacturers, recommended them, for a 3 x 3 area, and a 400w for a 2.5 x 2.5.
A 1000w in a 4 x 4 area, has 62.5w-sq/ft. A 600w has 66w Sq/ft, and a 400w in a 6.25 area, is 64w-sq/ft. Yes, a 1000w HID will grow weed in a 5 x 5, but is not the most efficient. Same for a 600w,and a 400w. They will cover a slightly larger area, but going by original manufacturers recommendations, they were meant for 4 x 4-3 x 3-2.5 x 2.5 respectively.
Just like when Gavita came out with the 645w 1700e-1700umol+. They say the 1700e, was specifically designed, to replace a 1000w HID, in a 4 x 4 area. The 1700e and the 1000w Hortilux HPS are both around 1700umol.
A 1000w Hortilux Blue-5500k is best used in a 3 x 3, and is about the same umol, as a 600w Hortilux HPS, but with a much better Spectrum.
This bulb was extremely fragile, and they wouldnt warranty it in shipping. 6 months later, they came out with a more rugged 1000w HID, named the Super Nova. Which they would guarantee it would survive shipping.
But to make a long story short. As long as I can remember, 1000w HID, has always been recommended to use in a 4 x 4 area, and is just within the last decade or so, I see some recommending a 600w for a 4 x 4, when, these came out, manufacturers, recommended them, for a 3 x 3 area, and a 400w for a 2.5 x 2.5.
A 1000w in a 4 x 4 area, has 62.5w-sq/ft. A 600w has 66w Sq/ft, and a 400w in a 6.25 area, is 64w-sq/ft. Yes, a 1000w HID will grow weed in a 5 x 5, but is not the most efficient. Same for a 600w,and a 400w. They will cover a slightly larger area, but going by original manufacturers recommendations, they were meant for 4 x 4-3 x 3-2.5 x 2.5 respectively.
Just like when Gavita came out with the 645w 1700e-1700umol+. They say the 1700e, was specifically designed, to replace a 1000w HID, in a 4 x 4 area. The 1700e and the 1000w Hortilux HPS are both around 1700umol.
A 1000w Hortilux Blue-5500k is best used in a 3 x 3, and is about the same umol, as a 600w Hortilux HPS, but with a much better Spectrum.
alaskanthunderf
New Member
Anyway OP is gone i believe i understand Hps is hot well nice but i dont understand why People dont Just Turn on the heating in the room and Use LED. These bulbs exploded on my Buddys Set Up several Times, anyway Led vs Hps is a different discussion OP should come Up with Infos regarding available space, is heating an issue etc. but He seems to be gone
I heard before about the temperature that must be kept in order for LED to work properly. It was something about not being too cold, but i don't know which temp it's fine and why is that important. Maybe you could explain why LED's need hotter temps.
Also, this is important because i understand that while some strains do well in warmer climate, others must be grow in lighter temps.
So i assume if some choose LED as lights source, they must also choose a strain that is recommended to be grow in a warmer environment.
On the other hand, if HPS is used, some need to choose a strain that need cooler environment.
Correct me if i'm wrong and please explain the LED temp thing. Why they need higher temps?
Thanks
DanKiller
Well-Known Member
Everything has an optimal working temp, plants, humans, engines etc
Weed optimal growing temp is 30-32c with a 60-80rh, tropic climate shit.
For flowering you can start at those values and lower them as trichomes start to form to around 26-28c as trichomes loves heat on one hand but suffer from it on the other, balance.
Leds by their nature and mostly lower wattage output produce less heat, which is essential in growing indoors.
It's not that some strains do better in warm climate and some worse, it's just that some strains can handle heat stress better than others, that's the exception, not the general rule.
All plants and weed especially need temps to be 25c and above to function properly.
If you choose led then yes it better to apply them in warmer places, heaters and ACs draw a lot of wattage for the task of maintaining a stable temp, while HIDs do it for a fraction of the cost and are already grow oriented (as they are already in your tent) instead of delivering hot air inside.
Again, this has nothing to do with strains, its about the conditions led lights come into play, if those conditions are perfect then leds will shine, if the conditions are subpar especially in the temps, you will suffer more in your grow.
DanKiller
Well-Known Member
Leds show us spreading is better from adding, putting 2 x 400w in good reflectors inside 4x4 will have sufficient coverage, 2 x 600w will kill it.
The only time I use a 1000w de is in a xxxxl 1.10m x 1.10m hood in big rooms, putting this kind of lamp in a kinda small reflector and in tents... Just not this bulb cup of tea and won't get you where your going actually.
I just finished a run in a 8x4 with 3 x 400w hps, got like 1200g, adding more plants I can reach 1500-1800 easy, spreading light is key.
In theory putting some 5 x 250w should have gave even better results in that space due to creating more light distributing hot spots(bulbs)
The problem with leds today as it's hard to know their total light output, everything is in ppfd which means final space count and not initial outputof the system.
According to my math in terms of output the 750w hps is equivalent to the e1700 led in output, not in spreading haha, which is close in wattage use.
The 1000w bulbs rank at 170k LM now, the 400v ones anyways, you'll need a 800w led at least to match that.
When cooler temps becomes an issue you understand leds advantage is obsolete to HIDs.
That's why both of them are good in their own aspect, leds are not orientated to to home grower as much as they would like simply because it creates problems for the avg grower.
No one is buying a tent and light system to adapt to the hateful "learning curve" of leds or spend thousands on heaters or AC electrity just to keep temp in check.. thats not logical.
People grow with leds at 70-77F, 70 rh, crazy people, just to be in the hype
Every year a new iphone comes out and people rush to buy, it's same here, just wannabe part of the hype.
alaskanthunderf
New Member
Oh Lord bulb Lamp Fans and users in 2024 whats going on on This Planet .. If you get your Power at a price of 8 CT per kWh and everything is Set to bulb lamps you still got the reflectors and Ballast and everything and Want to Use Them until their life cycle is over alright I see that as a good Thing. Or you cant afford the heating of the room or have No heating in that room, alright I see a bulb Lamp would be nice to warm Up the place....
But in all other cases LED are far Superior you Just shouldnt by some Cheap ones - those which Catch fire and so on...
The Hps bulb lamps get you a nice fat Bud in the small area where they shine strongest, even Superior to the ones LEDs give you, but the led gives you a nice Bud all over the place and especially reaches the lower sections of the plant way better than any bulb Lamp.
So you either got high Power consumption to produce Killer buds in a small area of your grow space or you got medium to fat buds all over the space and especially also on the lower parts of the plant For lower Energy cost and way safer regarding failure of the Lamp or even fire in the room etc. These Ballast and bulbs are totally 2007!
Herjack24 give me your available space and I Show you which Led
But in all other cases LED are far Superior you Just shouldnt by some Cheap ones - those which Catch fire and so on...
The Hps bulb lamps get you a nice fat Bud in the small area where they shine strongest, even Superior to the ones LEDs give you, but the led gives you a nice Bud all over the place and especially reaches the lower sections of the plant way better than any bulb Lamp.
So you either got high Power consumption to produce Killer buds in a small area of your grow space or you got medium to fat buds all over the space and especially also on the lower parts of the plant For lower Energy cost and way safer regarding failure of the Lamp or even fire in the room etc. These Ballast and bulbs are totally 2007!
Herjack24 give me your available space and I Show you which Led
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DanKiller
Well-Known Member
Flinstone light lol
Street lamp bulbs haha
We heard it all, these are not science statements.
We understand some people love hype, some people just go for what will make their grow good.
It's 2024 and I still can't get enough reception in my town but behold that damn 100 year old house telephone I got still works flawless.
History is not bad my friend, don't let the hype fool you, they are selling 30% more efficient light source for heavy prices, not a 100% increase which would make it a no brainer.
In most cases, and to most avg growers, those 30% are not worth the added trials and tribulations.
Again, the avg grower, not people who try to squeeze every single gram fro every single corner of your space.
Street lamp bulbs haha
We heard it all, these are not science statements.
We understand some people love hype, some people just go for what will make their grow good.
It's 2024 and I still can't get enough reception in my town but behold that damn 100 year old house telephone I got still works flawless.
History is not bad my friend, don't let the hype fool you, they are selling 30% more efficient light source for heavy prices, not a 100% increase which would make it a no brainer.
In most cases, and to most avg growers, those 30% are not worth the added trials and tribulations.
Again, the avg grower, not people who try to squeeze every single gram fro every single corner of your space.
Sorry for the delay.
The available space are in fact two of them. In both, I can use as much as 3.2x3.2 (100x100cm).
1. In the first case the temp is stable through out the year meaning something like 71.6 F (22 C). Maybe + - 1 or 2 degrees.
2. In the 2nd place the temps are as much as 80 F (27 C) in the summer (July and August) while in the winter the room can be heated. In the Spring and Autumn the temp is around 70 F (21 C).
The temp in both scenarios can be lowered a bit with the help of a fan, and heated only for the 2nd scenario in the winter to about 70 F (21 C).
I guess the first scenario is best suited for a HPS (and was used a while ago), while the second is best for LED, but only for a short period in the summer. I can't heat the 2nd room in both Spring and Autumn, only in the Winter.
alaskanthunderf
New Member
You May Want to Use one For vegetation period, seedlings and Clones and the other one For flowering.
For the veg Chamber Take This one
horticulturelightinggroup.com
And For flowering Chamber two of These or If two of These are to expensive start Out with one and get the second one later
www.sanlight.com
And If you wanna do veg somewhere Else Put the sanlights in both boxes.
And No i See No reason in the First scenario to Use HPS because temps at 22 degrees Celsius...
These LEDs will do a perfect Job and please you in both scenarios
For the veg Chamber Take This one
HLG 100 Rspec®
HLG 100 Rspec® uses a high efficiency white light Quantum Boards®.Equivalent to 220W T5 or 300W CFL output or 200W metal halide
horticulturelightinggroup.com
And For flowering Chamber two of These or If two of These are to expensive start Out with one and get the second one later
EVO 3-100 1.5 - sanlight.com
SANlight EVO 3-100 Hocheffizientes LED Pflanzenbelichtungssystem für Indoor Anwendungen.
www.sanlight.com
And If you wanna do veg somewhere Else Put the sanlights in both boxes.
And No i See No reason in the First scenario to Use HPS because temps at 22 degrees Celsius...
These LEDs will do a perfect Job and please you in both scenarios