First Grow 2x2x4 Tent

[dreadedbud]

This is my first attempt at growing.

Very limited in where I could grow so the tent is the loft above the insulation so somewhat exposed to the outside temperature fluctuations.

I am growing 2 autoflowers from Fast Buds.

Cream Cookies Auto and Purple Lemonade.

Both are growing in 2 gallon fabric pots filled with a 75%/25% mix of Biobizz light mix and perlite. Only added water so far.

Using the ACI tent, S22 lights, inline and controller and also using a smart soil moisture probe which seems to be working quite well so far

 

[dreadedbud]

Cream Cookies Day 15

 

[dreadedbud]

Purple Lemonade Day 15

 

[dreadedbud]

Any and all advise welcome and very much appreciated

 

[HandyGringo]

Looks fine so far. What's the metal pole in one of the pots? Also, you're getting close to the time where you could consider low-stress training if you want shorter bushier plants.

Might be worth thinking about nutrients soon as well. The pots are pretty small, but it will work. The plants will just be smaller than if you had used a larger pot, of course.

 

[dreadedbud]

Looks fine so far. What's the metal pole in one of the pots? Also, you're getting close to the time where you could consider low-stress training if you want shorter bushier plants.

Might be worth thinking about nutrients soon as well. The pots are pretty small, but it will work. The plants will just be smaller than if you had used a larger pot, of course.

The metal pole is a smart soil moisture probe. The part you insert has 3 moisture sensors at different levels but only testing it out at the moment.

This is the output

 

[dreadedbud]

Looks fine so far. What's the metal pole in one of the pots? Also, you're getting close to the time where you could consider low-stress training if you want shorter bushier plants.

Might be worth thinking about nutrients soon as well. The pots are pretty small, but it will work. The plants will just be smaller than if you had used a larger pot, of course.

What is the best approach to keep them short?

Should I top them? And if so do I need to that before I start LST?

I'm planning to use the Biobizz liquid nutes for the next watering, likely to be late tomorrow or early Thursday.

 

[dreadedbud]

Just done some leaf tucking so far.

Cream Cookies





Purple Lemonade

 

[HandyGringo]

What is the best approach to keep them short?

Should I top them? And if so do I need to that before I start LST?

I'm planning to use the Biobizz liquid nutes for the next watering, likely to be late tomorrow or early Thursday.

I wouldn't top an autoflower. You will have to Google it to see the opinions on it. But everyone agrees that low-stress training is a good thing to do. Just look up low-stress training, and do it. It will keep your plants short and bushy. Just need some wire to die down the plant

 

[dreadedbud]

I wouldn't top an autoflower. You will have to Google it to see the opinions on it. But everyone agrees that low-stress training is a good thing to do. Just look up low-stress training, and do it. It will keep your plants short and bushy. Just need some wire to die down the plant

Thanks for the advise.

From everything I've read agree topping autos can really stunt yield particularly for a novice grower like myself.

What I don't know and couldn't find online is does topping keep them shorter if I was willing to accept a lower yield?

 

[HandyGringo]

Thanks for the advise.

From everything I've read agree topping autos can really stunt yield particularly for a novice grower like myself.

What I don't know and couldn't find online is does topping keep them shorter if I was willing to accept a lower yield?

Yes, it does, but LST is still better IMO, then you can control the height more.

 

[dreadedbud]

Yes, it does, but LST is still better IMO, then you can control the height more.

I've got a small tent complex!

And as it is my first grow afraid they will must out of the tent or I won't be able to control them when they get bigger.

This is the girls this morning.

 

[HandyGringo]

They look perfectly happy and very healthy. A little tip, look at your cotyledons, those two smallest weird-looking leaves at the bottom of your stem.

When those start turning yellow, it's time to start adding nutrients. When your plant needs nutrients, it will start cannibalizing its own leaves from the bottom up, so those leaves will go first, when your plant is out of nitrogen.

If you're using powder nutrients or pellets that you put on the surface of the substrate, you need to add it a few weeks prior, since it takes time to dissolve. So now would be a good time for that, I bet your plants will run out soon if you're in light mix.

It's getting near too late to bend the lower part of the stem, if you want to LST you need to do it soon or only tie it down a little.

Or you can top, as you mentioned if you don't mind potentially less yield.

 

[dreadedbud]

They look perfectly happy and very healthy. A little tip, look at your cotyledons, those two smallest weird-looking leaves at the bottom of your stem.

When those start turning yellow, it's time to start adding nutrients. When your plant needs nutrients, it will start cannibalizing its own leaves from the bottom up, so those leaves will go first, when your plant is out of nitrogen.

If you're using powder nutrients or pellets that you put on the surface of the substrate, you need to add it a few weeks prior, since it takes time to dissolve. So now would be a good time for that, I bet your plants will run out soon if you're in light mix.

It's getting near too late to bend the lower part of the stem, if you want to LST you need to do it soon or only tie it down a little.

Or you can top, as you mentioned if you don't mind potentially less yield.

I'm going to be feeding BioBizz liquid nutes in the next feed.

Pots are a little heavy and the soil moisture sensor is still reading 18 so have a bit to go yet.

I think I'm going to top tonight by cutting over the 5th node that is just starting to grow and then start tying it down over the next couple of days

 

[dreadedbud]

Couldn't quite pick a route to go, so did both.

This way I get to experience both methods. Due to height restrictions I'm never going to be able to just let it grow naturally.

I did LST on the Cookies Cream and topped the Purple Lemonade.

Not sure if either was done correctly.

Topped





LST

 

[Delps8]

Thanks for the advise.

From everything I've read agree topping autos can really stunt yield particularly for a novice grower like myself.

I've never seen any proof offered to support that, I top all of my plants be the photos or autos, I can't make the argument that topping a plant reduces growth to any material extent based on plant biology.

My first five or so grows were autos and I've done a few photo grows since then. The reason I switched is because autos grow on their own schedule and, in my experience, they just get too big for my 2' x 4' x 8' tent.

Can you get a bad crop from an autoflower? Of course and you can get bad results from a photoperiod plant. I've only been growing 3 ½ years but experience has been that if you give cannabis a lot of light, keep temp and RH in range (VPD), prune it as little as possible, and give it as few nutrients as it needs, you will have a bountiful crop. Autos or photos makes zero difference.

Two Gelato autos in the tent. Mary is hiding on the left side while Jeff is the huge SOB on the right. Two lights in the tent, a 330 light at the top and a 125 watt Vipar XS 1500 for the front row.




This is a topped and LST'd photo. Really nice to work with and easy to harvest.

What I don't know and couldn't find online is does topping keep them shorter if I was willing to accept a lower yield?

A great example of "begging the question" because your assumption is that yield will be lower. Again, show me the data. I always top and LST my plants because they're valid techniques to maximize yield.

Topping a plant removes the apical stem so growth hormones flow to the nodes below where you topped. That makes it easy to have an even canopy and because the canopy will be more even on a topped plant, the "PPFD map" is more even and, overall, the plant gets more light. Given that light is the only way that plants make food (nutrients are not food) a canopy that is more even will, all other factors being equal, produce a higher yield than a plant that is not topped.

You're going to run into a height issue. I would recommend that you top and LST your plants and given them as much light as they can handle. In addition to high light levels allowing the plant to produce the most glucose, plants that receive a lot of light will tend to be shorter and more compact, with a larger number of small leaves. In contrast, plants that don't get much light will stretch toward the light source and will tend to have fewer, larger leaves and few branches. That results in a tall, skinny plant with few bud sites.

In the case of a 4' tent, you have very limited head room so topping+LST+lotsa light are the way to go.

I really like AC Infinity products. I've got six pieces of AC Infinity equipment in my 2' x 4' tent and have a used three or four models of their controllers. I've used Pulse, Inkbird, and AC Infinity devices and AC Infinity is, by far, the best.

With their lights, you'll want to use high hang height because at lower hang heights, it's hard to get an even light cast. Money spent on a lux meter is money well spent if you want to maximize yield. A lot of growers just want to "grow some weed" and cannabis will do just fine by them. We know that crop yield increase in an almost linear manner as light levels increase so, if you do put the time into getting "lotsa light" on your plants, you may well end up with shit ton of weed because cannabis is a light whore loves light.

My experience is that when cannabis is given a lot of light, in good temp and RH ranges, and well maintained (top, LST, and resist the urge to remove leaves), a cannabis crop will easily meet the yield estimates that seed sellers provide.




Which light meter? I've used and tested the Uni-T light meter (I use an Apogee PAR meter). It's only $24 on Amazon and gets the job done. The BTMETER BT-881D is more expensive but it has a record feature so you can sample multiple points across you canopy. With a 2' tent, the Uni-T will do fine but if you're thinking of going to a larger tent and want to maximize the amount of light your plants are getting, the extra $4 for the BT-88 might be a better purchase.

I've attached a document I wrote about converting lux to µmol. Based on the spectrum of your light, a factor of 0.0145 or 0.015 will give you a pretty good number.

 

[cat shit]

I've never seen any proof offered to support that, I top all of my plants be the photos or autos, I can't make the argument that topping a plant reduces growth to any material extent based on plant biology.

My first five or so grows were autos and I've done a few photo grows since then. The reason I switched is because autos grow on their own schedule and, in my experience, they just get too big for my 2' x 4' x 8' tent.

Can you get a bad crop from an autoflower? Of course and you can get bad results from a photoperiod plant. I've only been growing 3 ½ years but experience has been that if you give cannabis a lot of light, keep temp and RH in range (VPD), prune it as little as possible, and give it as few nutrients as it needs, you will have a bountiful crop. Autos or photos makes zero difference.

Two Gelato autos in the tent. Mary is hiding on the left side while Jeff is the huge SOB on the right. Two lights in the tent, a 330 light at the top and a 125 watt Vipar XS 1500 for the front row.
View attachment 5429119
View attachment 5429121


This is a topped and LST'd photo. Really nice to work with and easy to harvest.
View attachment 5429120



A great example of "begging the question" because your assumption is that yield will be lower. Again, show me the data. I always top and LST my plants because they're valid techniques to maximize yield.

Topping a plant removes the apical stem so growth hormones flow to the nodes below where you topped. That makes it easy to have an even canopy and because the canopy will be more even on a topped plant, the "PPFD map" is more even and, overall, the plant gets more light. Given that light is the only way that plants make food (nutrients are not food) a canopy that is more even will, all other factors being equal, produce a higher yield than a plant that is not topped.

You're going to run into a height issue. I would recommend that you top and LST your plants and given them as much light as they can handle. In addition to high light levels allowing the plant to produce the most glucose, plants that receive a lot of light will tend to be shorter and more compact, with a larger number of small leaves. In contrast, plants that don't get much light will stretch toward the light source and will tend to have fewer, larger leaves and few branches. That results in a tall, skinny plant with few bud sites.

In the case of a 4' tent, you have very limited head room so topping+LST+lotsa light are the way to go.

I really like AC Infinity products. I've got six pieces of AC Infinity equipment in my 2' x 4' tent and have a used three or four models of their controllers. I've used Pulse, Inkbird, and AC Infinity devices and AC Infinity is, by far, the best.

With their lights, you'll want to use high hang height because at lower hang heights, it's hard to get an even light cast. Money spent on a lux meter is money well spent if you want to maximize yield. A lot of growers just want to "grow some weed" and cannabis will do just fine by them. We know that crop yield increase in an almost linear manner as light levels increase so, if you do put the time into getting "lotsa light" on your plants, you may well end up with shit ton of weed because cannabis is a light whore loves light.

My experience is that when cannabis is given a lot of light, in good temp and RH ranges, and well maintained (top, LST, and resist the urge to remove leaves), a cannabis crop will easily meet the yield estimates that seed sellers provide.

View attachment 5429123


Which light meter? I've used and tested the Uni-T light meter (I use an Apogee PAR meter). It's only $24 on Amazon and gets the job done. The BTMETER BT-881D is more expensive but it has a record feature so you can sample multiple points across you canopy. With a 2' tent, the Uni-T will do fine but if you're thinking of going to a larger tent and want to maximize the amount of light your plants are getting, the extra $4 for the BT-88 might be a better purchase.

I've attached a document I wrote about converting lux to µmol. Based on the spectrum of your light, a factor of 0.0145 or 0.015 will give you a pretty good number.

Hi ihave a ks 3000 an xs 2000 amd an xs 1500 I also use a uni t bti lux meter and I have been using 0.017 as a conversion equation according to the migro guy would you say that is an incorrect value? I looked at your info and it's really good stuff should I be u using 0.0145? I thought I have been giving my autos the maximum ppfd if can give them more I will they getting about 45 000 lux late flower could I bump it up to 50000 I haven't had a foxtail in 2 years. Some chem dog and mazar autos under my ks3000 atm a few weeks from harvest.

 

[dreadedbud]

I've never seen any proof offered to support that, I top all of my plants be the photos or autos, I can't make the argument that topping a plant reduces growth to any material extent based on plant biology.

My first five or so grows were autos and I've done a few photo grows since then. The reason I switched is because autos grow on their own schedule and, in my experience, they just get too big for my 2' x 4' x 8' tent.

Can you get a bad crop from an autoflower? Of course and you can get bad results from a photoperiod plant. I've only been growing 3 ½ years but experience has been that if you give cannabis a lot of light, keep temp and RH in range (VPD), prune it as little as possible, and give it as few nutrients as it needs, you will have a bountiful crop. Autos or photos makes zero difference.

Two Gelato autos in the tent. Mary is hiding on the left side while Jeff is the huge SOB on the right. Two lights in the tent, a 330 light at the top and a 125 watt Vipar XS 1500 for the front row.
View attachment 5429119
View attachment 5429121


This is a topped and LST'd photo. Really nice to work with and easy to harvest.
View attachment 5429120



A great example of "begging the question" because your assumption is that yield will be lower. Again, show me the data. I always top and LST my plants because they're valid techniques to maximize yield.

Topping a plant removes the apical stem so growth hormones flow to the nodes below where you topped. That makes it easy to have an even canopy and because the canopy will be more even on a topped plant, the "PPFD map" is more even and, overall, the plant gets more light. Given that light is the only way that plants make food (nutrients are not food) a canopy that is more even will, all other factors being equal, produce a higher yield than a plant that is not topped.

You're going to run into a height issue. I would recommend that you top and LST your plants and given them as much light as they can handle. In addition to high light levels allowing the plant to produce the most glucose, plants that receive a lot of light will tend to be shorter and more compact, with a larger number of small leaves. In contrast, plants that don't get much light will stretch toward the light source and will tend to have fewer, larger leaves and few branches. That results in a tall, skinny plant with few bud sites.

In the case of a 4' tent, you have very limited head room so topping+LST+lotsa light are the way to go.

I really like AC Infinity products. I've got six pieces of AC Infinity equipment in my 2' x 4' tent and have a used three or four models of their controllers. I've used Pulse, Inkbird, and AC Infinity devices and AC Infinity is, by far, the best.

With their lights, you'll want to use high hang height because at lower hang heights, it's hard to get an even light cast. Money spent on a lux meter is money well spent if you want to maximize yield. A lot of growers just want to "grow some weed" and cannabis will do just fine by them. We know that crop yield increase in an almost linear manner as light levels increase so, if you do put the time into getting "lotsa light" on your plants, you may well end up with shit ton of weed because cannabis is a light whore loves light.

My experience is that when cannabis is given a lot of light, in good temp and RH ranges, and well maintained (top, LST, and resist the urge to remove leaves), a cannabis crop will easily meet the yield estimates that seed sellers provide.

View attachment 5429123


Which light meter? I've used and tested the Uni-T light meter (I use an Apogee PAR meter). It's only $24 on Amazon and gets the job done. The BTMETER BT-881D is more expensive but it has a record feature so you can sample multiple points across you canopy. With a 2' tent, the Uni-T will do fine but if you're thinking of going to a larger tent and want to maximize the amount of light your plants are getting, the extra $4 for the BT-88 might be a better purchase.

I've attached a document I wrote about converting lux to µmol. Based on the spectrum of your light, a factor of 0.0145 or 0.015 will give you a pretty good number.

Thanks for the advise.
I don't really have any data one way or the other.

I'm reading as much as I can, looking at videos of other growers and asking questions I'm different forums.

And there are a lot of different views on if, when and how to top/LST or otherwise train autos.

As my first grow I am just trying to keep them alive and manageable within my tiny little tent!

If I get some weed I'll be happy, if it smokeable I'll be over the moon, a big yield....
That might be too much to even hope for.

I keep posting here to help me along the way.

And I really do appreciate all advise as it really does help.

 

[Delps8]

What is the best approach to keep them short?

Should I top them? And if so do I need to that before I start LST?

I'm planning to use the Biobizz liquid nutes for the next watering, likely to be late tomorrow or early Thursday.

"I would recommend that you top and LST your plants and given them as much light as they can handle. "
There won't be anything to LST until after you top. I top above the fourth node.

Re nutrients - I know very little about nutes in soil other than that a big reason for nutrient issues are too high an EC and having a grow environment that's too hot and dry. If you give cannabis nutrients at a modest level, it will do fine.

In veg, it keep my temps at 80-85 and use the C69 controller + their Humidifier to keep my VPD at 1.0. If your VPD is running higher than 1.0, you'll have to increase water and decrease nutrient concentration but it's better for VPD to be too high than it is for it to be too low.

VPD (vapor pressure deficit) is just using one number to express a range of temperature and humidity values. It's similar to "feels like" temperature for humans. If it's hot and dry, we just drink more water and we can do fine. Hot and humid sucks (I was at Ft. Bragg, NC and Ft. Banning, GA when I was in the Army so I've done hot and humid) because we sweat but it can't evaporate. Plants are impacted in a similar manner.

The big issue with hot and/or dry is that the plant has to give off more water so it has to take up more water. If your nute strength isn't reduced a little, that can lead to nutrient imbalances.

More on VPD here.

 

[Delps8]

Hi ihave a ks 3000 an xs 2000 amd an xs 1500 I also use a uni t bti lux meter and I have been using 0.017 as a conversion equation according to the migro guy would you say that is an incorrect value? I looked at your info and it's really good stuff should I be u using 0.0145? I thought I have been giving my autos the maximum ppfd if can give them more I will they getting about 45 000 lux late flower could I bump it up to 50000 I haven't had a foxtail in 2 years. Some chem dog and mazar autos under my ks3000 atm a few weeks from harvest.

If the board/light isn't specified in the table, then you've got to eyeball it.

The XS 1500 number is from my testing so it's as accurate as I can get it. The light was warmed up for 30+ minutes and my Apogee was calibrated at the factory (but tests out to +1.4%). Same with the Growcraft flower light number.

0.017 is even higher than the Growcraft and is up in the heavy red category, maybe an HLG with a 730 bump.

The spectrum below is for the KS 3k from the website. There's the standard blue spike and a fair amount of orange but not much red. I'd go with 0.0145 or so.

Keep in mind — it's all "wrong". A lux meter is 5%±, throw in a non-specific conversion, and a light that's not new out of the box plus the fact that a 1" change in distance to the light source is 50µmol and…it's all "wrong".

Having said that, it's f'ing great that you're using a meter and getting your head around "more light" but a meter, lux or PAR, is a means of "adjusting fire". I will let you get your plant in the, say, 600µmol ballpark, for a plant in mid-veg.

After you get in the ballpark, you start the process of turning up the dimmer until your plants get too much light and, once they tell you that, drop the dimmer by a few % or raise the light 1" or 2".

There's no problem with giving plants a bit too much light - they'll "canoe" or "taco" or rotate the leaf vertically, like a Venetian blind. Once you see that, turn it down a bit and you'll be livin' on the edge with a very happy, very well fed plant.






I take light readings in a grid format, left back, left center, left front, center back, etc. With nine sample points (for a plant in late veg or early flower) I can get a good idea of how even the canopy is and then, if I need to, use plant yo-yo's to get different parts of the plant closer to the light.

This canopy wasn't very even.