Who's Sick Of Obama Yet?

[hanimmal]

Fletch response:
This is completely wrong. Do you not remember when the first round was given to the banks as a bail out which was part of the original stimulous how Obama forgot to put an overseere on the money and just handed it out? Banks all gave CERO bonuses and higher board members bonuses. They also wer caught throwing multimillion dollar partys with the moneies the governement gave them that was fact and the president had to address that mistake on no putting proper regulations into effect.

You are wrong, that happened under the previous president in Sep. 08.

Cash For Clunkers huge sucess??? Not in America its not and the car dealers are not happy at all about this. The amount of money that was put into the program was wasted over 50% of that money left our economy as people bought foreign cars not american. they bought cars built in other countries not here so it gave a bit of money to the salesmen not much as the commissions on these was a reduced rate due to a lower dealership take in which is fact. As I said I have father who sells a uncle who sells for Mazada and 4 friends who sell at different dealers all hate the program. the dealers are now worried now that they took in more clunkers then the governement can pay for. Most dealers stopped the program after the first reports the program was out of money. So besides the earlier reason this program was a huge failure. People traded in cars that were only 5 years old as they could get a new version with no money down and same payment which means more scarp melting more pollution and fuller scarp fields.So our so called green pres just made a huge environmental mess.

http://www.all-about-car-selection.com/foreign-cars.html American made cares are not just the big three anymore. Once the program used all the money that it intended, doesn't it make sense to stop pushing something that you are not sure if they were going to extend?

And for the dealerships that decided that this amount of money made is not good enough and got upset, I would tell them isn't 3/4 of the commission better than 100% of nothing?

Fletch:Hmmm not sure how you say you have more bases as thats also incorrect. China was worried because as Obama is spending he weaken the USD which inturn makes inflation go up. China has bonds with the US and if the rate of value falls to fast they have no choice but to cash in which would cripple our nation to the point of no return.

I cannot go to Ford and demand the money that I have in long term bonds with them, because I am worried. It doesn't work that way.

You bring up thier stimulus plan. Have you seen or read what they actuially did.Its nothing like we did here as they are a communist party and dont spend lkike we do. Thier stimulus mostly dealt with larger rations from the goverenment for food and living expenses to quele the people fear of the US collapse taking down China with them. they werent cutting checks and discounting cars and bailing out banks. They did a good package.

Yes and no, they bought up tons of raw materials. Essentially it is going to work on the production end, once the world starts to buy they are going to be able to turn on the spicket and not have to spend any money. It was very smart since they are buying very low. Since we are not going to make a bunch of junk to sell to the world that was not the right move for us. We need to improve our infrastructure, our heavy manufacturing days are behind us. We need to focus on technologies.

Fletch: You don't know much about the auto industry do you.. Anyways Chrysler is not an american company and hasnt been for years. After Diamalyer sold it(german owned) to its current owners which is a non US company the company was never US again. they shut most of the US plants down and operated a lot from Canada and Mexico and since closed the Canada plants pissing them off as they passes a 10% tax hike few years back to subsidize them to keep the plants open then got bailed on after the money was given. To pump that much monmey into a non US auto maker thats doesnt sell many cars and doesnt employy a great percentage of workers in the grand scheme was just stupid made no sense. Chrysler looses money quarterly so it cant repay that or make it back it just slowed the enevitable collapse of that company so he made a 5 year bandaide and another bad investment money out the window for something that didnt mean much. Ford was fine ande Chevey needs restructuring.

You missed what I was saying. In the middle of an economic collapse you cannot let huge multifacetted companies fall simply because you think they are a dinosaur. I don't mind them going bankrupt, but to let it happen in the middle of a economic meltdown, you don't want the hundreds of thousands of american workers to lose their job because they cannot get a loan from the banks that are in a crisis.

Filthy: You may want to actually have a conversation with the man then as then you would know the flex fuelk program is a failure and is being phased out. The E85 fuel is too exspensive to make and then ripples into the rest of our food costs. people dont buy those cars for the added cost on the sticker the higher gas costs and the effects it has on our food supply cost. They have been phasing this out and are just release already developed models. Ford is currently in works on 2 new technologies to be release one is a version of the electric car similar to trhe Volt from Chevy and they also are close to the release of the first production nitrogen run car which will be the future of cars. A car that runs off hydrogen which can be made at home has zero emissions and would provide great mileage at minimal cost hikes. Might wanna have a chat with him then if your gonna be family as the flex is a failked option.Few minutes in any Ford Dealership will give you the entire story.

They use the stalk of the corn for the oil, most the high prices are due to not enough demand for it.

The technologies need to improve and we need to develope new ones. This is the way America can still stay number 1 for the next century, we need to develope our way out of this mess we are in.

Fletch: I dont understand what your saying here as a responce. Yes you can be denied buying insurance if your already sick but not if you have insurance and get sick. If you have insurance and then have a heart attack the new governement insurance wouldnt cover you after age 55 as that is the age they would consider you a high risk and not worth the money. The new program also calls for tylonol to replace viocdine as prescribed pain medicine and things like hydrocodone and percs to be bann and illegal which cant happen as those meds are needed. Trust me after back surgery you need more then tylonol

No that is WAY wrong, it is a lie that you heard.

They will not deny care to anyone, that is the point. Medicare/aid is the best hands down at giving the doctors the choice of what to do to their patients.

Insurance companies are notorius for denying care that the doctors have told their patients they need, because they don't want to pay for it.

Fletch: Dont think you followed I said the government should step in meaning make a review and regulatory board to access medical bills (this includes anything medical being hospital, doctors, insurnace paying for this) and set limits to the over charges that in return effect how much a doctors is paid as they get way too much, how much the hospital can charge for an asprin which is way over done to pay the high doctor salaries and then in return the insurnace company charges higher rates to cover those blown up costs making insurance unaffordable. Its all similar to the great principal Reagfan laid out which saved our country called trickle down economics which worked perfect and Clinto reaped those great years til his last term when he messed with it and started the snoball we are in now.

The reason why everything is overpriced at the hospitals is not due to the Doctors pay. It is due to the hospital having to spread the money over the system to pay for the people that don't have insurance and cannot pay.

That is the major problem with the system now. You cannot blame the doctors for what the insurance companies and administrators decide the prices to be. They work damn hard to get a degree that essentially takes ten years and costs about $200k to get.

Fletch: Wrong again you gotta do some homework if your gonna have car people in your family. Most people cant afford cars even those who end up getting them. dealers have to do so much smudging on applications to get peopole into cars as they may have jobs but the national credit ratings are all time bad meaning they cant really afford a new car but it gets done. The amount of upside down trades attempted is astronomical if you go into a dealer and talk to someone who is a friend or family and will speak honestly. Most new car buyers come in within 24 months trying to get out of the contracts but are so upside down on loan to value ratiuos they cant. This new program was directly made for people who cant afford cars well let me rephrase it was made " to help the environment" but since no thought was put through its identical to the home loans that were given no credit bad credit no income verification needed. people who couldnt afford the car and come up with a down payment now have the downpayment which makes the loan easier to get even if they cant really afford it but its free money lets get some fre cars. People dont all think logivcally about the payments and insurance they think me need car me got car now.. Its a very paid program.

Your calling 11% the majority? That is how many home mortgages are deliquent or in foreclosure during this crisis.

That is the problem with this, you are confusing 'the majority' with something that is not even close. If the "Majority" of car loans would be in default that would mean that over 51% of all cars bought would be repoed. So out of 13.2 million vehicles that means over 6.6 million cars get repoed. Totally off base.

You are not wrong, if you talk about the 10% that are in repo. It is still very high, but to say majority is wrong.

Fletch: lol Efficient thats a joke maybe try them and find out. they paid for things but its a fight the whole way. They fight paying anything at all times and you have to call daily, fax, process, refax. They have hard time believeing you need those kidneys your getting or that heart transplant you got. They are a company that is broke and does not want to pay an utter mess. They dont care what meds doctore perscribe you they will try to force a cheaper alternative on you even if the make up of the meds are different but used for the same type of thing. You have to get so much extra paper work for no substitution just to get your meds.

Again my fiance' is a pharmacist and deals with all the insurances all day every day. And it is a fact that Medicaid/care are the most direct and easy to deal with. Infact you know the Detroit Medical center. They came out and talked about how much money they would save (Hundred thousand a year) just in processing if they got all their people to be on medicare.

Now one thing to know is that people do steal from this system. People are over drugged and constantly want vicodine, percesat, ect. So they try to not give that out unless it is needed, since most people are using it as a drug that they can sell and make a buttload off of our money. That does need to stop.

Fletch: Yeah it is but thats his plan. he found one place that took 2 of them and that was Austrailia everyone elsae said no. So you tell me where do they go? No one will take them and Michigan is the only place he has come up with sooo where do they go as he is hell bent on emptying gitmo by January and that gotta go someplace and you dont mind them in your yard soooo..

It is dense to think that they are going to be releasing enemy combatants into the cities. That is not going to happen as we have prisons.

Fletch: Yes China control thier food. You say starve them off for months.. You realise what would happen right away if China did that and its why they dont do it right?? Kim is right next door it is known he has at least 6 nukes ready on mid range missles. You ever see a dog thats been abused and starved? When they have nothing to loose and will die without a fight or maybe survive if they fight they will fgightr. If kim knows he is doomed and the people will turn on him he will launch and take some with him. He keeps thats fear in the air as his blanket of protection hoping people dont forget it and uses itr as leverage. china could try to cut them off but it would take hits on the way out and with thier population a few nukes coulkd kill what 50 million people instantly before Korea was reemoved then China is radio active for what 80 years or so?

China is the only ones that can deal with N Korea, we should leave it up to them to get their dog on its leash. It is not our fight unless they make it. And they don't have the technology to make it our fight yet.

Fletch:Wow this all blows my mind..you are an american citizen correct as you dont seem to know much about our country...Its not the way of saying someones taking your job but they take the money from our countries economy. man this is so basic...Ok i live in a area around a city of 5 million people and we have a heavy illegal immigrant issue. they come get 1 house and put 15 people in it. So they are not adding to the housing economy. They all work yes but they send all but what is needed right back to mexico. Go to the currency exchange on Fridays and firt of the month and there are lines of Mexicans most illegal sending money westren union back to mexico to smuggle more family here or to pay for thier family thier. None of that money went into out economy it all left gone no taxes on it and not spent here. GONE.Now Im not sure where you live but if you went to grade school in the US you know our official national language is English so yes we do have an official language cant believe I had to explain that.It is written in law and recognized as our countriews language and you know whay people get all in arms about people who live here should speak it?? Because this is America this is our language to bve a productive memebr you must know it. The country doesnt change for you you change to be apart of this country. Dont forget your natyive language but for gods sake you must learn english to be an american and be a productive citizen in this society and the issue is too many poussy ass liberals and such say ohhh but they cant go tro school and learn as they dont understand english..well then put them in english classes and when they learn tey can join regular public schools. Its all about being a citizen .If i move to France guess what I gotta speak french..I go to mexico arwe the signs in english for me nope all spainish.

It may piss you off, but until we have a delcaration saying we have a national language we don't. Should people learn it, of course, as they won't be very helpful to the economy until they do. And those countries have a national language.

The money that they send to mexico to get their families here is lost, but what happens when they get their family here? They stop and are part of the economy.

And again they do not take americans jobs, which is the big thing that people like to cry about. If an american cannot get a job over a person that is poor and not able to talk the language, they should do something about getting some skills.

Fletch: Thats was a response to you saying his reasons for war were false and the protesters were good. well his reason were true and proven and I explained that whole thing 2of 3 reason physically show and the third more then enough to know it was true. soo your statement saying his reason for going in were false were actually all true reason making that statement you said completly false so thats why I replied as I did.So Iraq and the Rebbels in Afgahnasatn did nothing to us in your eyes? thats very intersting. As in my eyes I saw them take down 2 US towers and kill dozens of US citizens on our soil and then I see traing tapes of them preping to fight americans and plot domestic bombings to prove a point so for me yeah thet are the enemey and they did it to use we didnt go find them they picked a fight with someone out of jealousy and contempt. Now they have to pay the piper. But thats me you kill my citizens here at home for no reason but to make a point and Ill erase you.

Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. And they did not find any yellow cake uranium or materials to make nukes.

So I stand by it, we blew their country apart for the wrong reasons. We already were fighting in Afghanastan and had no reason to invade iraq. Even the Generals were saying that it was the wrong move.

Fletch: Well i never made a statement on race just on thier society but if you defend thier actions thats up to you but to think thier country and culture are respectful or believe in that and are not on the most basic of human levels is nuts. A passionate person who cares about life doesnt strap a bomb on thier body walk into a coffee shop and blow every stranger away to get attention for a cause. thats just crzyy with no regard for life.To live everyday for killking another who doesnt want to folow your supposed god is crazy. Yes all religion is evil and starts most wars. I have n o compassion for those being not from thier race so be careful and know the words you accuse with but for how thiy live thier live and treat others. You smack me and Ill smack you back you shake my hand and talk ill talk with you.Kill my father while he is drinking coffee so the world knows your group Ill find your group and will do my best to make sure everyone knows who you were before I return the favor.

And that is why I said you were dangerously close to racism. And I stand by it, even though your trying to clean it up a bit. The middle eastern people are far different from the religious nuts that are blowing themselves up.

I am all for eye for an eye, and really for me it is head for an eye. But to place blame on an entire group of people is dead wrong as most are innocent.

Fletch: If you take the entire statement and not a piece of one sentence it all made sense. Your a representive of the largest free world country there is and your meeting for the first time the Queen of England and an ipod (I never saw or heard any place saying she wanted one so youd have to show me that) to a woman in her what 70s. A chineese mad ipod as your first gift from America to England. It went to show how he doesnt think or prepare he just impulse acts which was what the statement was tied into.

I guess giving an old lady what she requested doesn't ruffle my feathers, did you know it had an origional opera on it that was made for her with a slide show of her times in america. Doesn't matter at all really, but it was nice. It was talked about on the BBC back during the whole hubub.

Fletch:Nope math was right at 300 million people getting 28000 each thats 8.4 trillion dollars which is right around what he is spending for his stgimulous packages and programs. I agree with you on the point that the first stimulous checks were bad ideas also. But you say the money is put instead of fixing what is wrong now into things like ducation and new roads. Yeah those need attention but are not priority right now. Those are things that if the country doesnt fail might help out in the future but if the country fails before then it helped no one. You dont put a new outfit on before you take a bath as you just ruin the new outfit. You have to stop the free fall and bleeding before you look to fix the future you have to fix the now and he didnt do that at all. great new roads but no cars since people cant buy them and the new socilistic government doesnt have money to give me a free one. So great lets live on the nice new road with my 2 well educated kids who dont have jobs since there are no jobs. Its not even comprehendable to go that route yet. he cant fix it all by spreading just a lkittle everywhere he needs order and preperation and doesnt do either,. You ask about my recipot of checks and balances and say it cant be done. Yeah pretty easily you do realize we are in a computer age right? You see those tv converter cards they gave everyuone? Guess what it was a visa card but could only buy what? A tv converter.. see the program is written for allowable things and rejects others its a very simple thing. Link cards only aloow food purchase not beer. thats trhe simplest thing issues the cards that are programmed no cash so no buying liqour drugs rims, purses,big screen tvs its pays the necessities only and that forces us to be responsible while all that money is back in the flow of our economy now business can hire more employess for the demand, people can catch up and refinace homes at lower rates and be able to survive. Maybe you dont loose your work truck and still do construction jobs. Its all simple and feasible.

The stimulus was 787 billion that was what I was going off of, we have not spent 8 trillion.

You need to spend the money on things that matter, not junk. Using that money in this way means that it is being spent and going out into the economy, not into ceo's hands.

And it can be directed into this that last decades and not are just a sugar high that is not able to be used later on.

That tax will come by 2010 first quarter he all but said it. he has dropped his tax bracket 5 times and it keeps getting lower and now that he admitted his mistakes he realised there is no choice but to tax to start paying what he is spending. there is no way around it he will have to and anyone with a brain knows it cant come all from the rich or they close up business and do lay offs and dont start new jobs and thwat would seal our fate. Gotta styop and spread the love to the middle class as the poor dont have any to tax.You call it scare tactics but in fact its just more democrate denile. If i close my eyes and say it wont happen it will all go away...not gonna happen Im just hoping and it should be so that we make it through this term and get him out as fast as possible. He has ruined it for African Americans being presidents for awhilke ill guarantee as he just went nuts in there like he did in Illinois, I wish Powell would have ran as he would have done right.

What I said stands. There is nothing in the works yet, not saying it won't eventually happen but I see that being more around 2012ish so he can get reelected. That is just republican scare tactics at work again.

Geithner said something about making tough desicions in regards to taxes, not the Obama administration. I think that Geithner is right that it should be done to pay for the mess America has gotten itself into the last decade, But then the Obama administration immediatly came out and said that they had no plans on doing this.

So until something more concrete comes out, it is anyones guess. Either way it sucks, but that doesn't mean it cannot go either way as of now. Anything more than that is just a guess.

Government Proposes Massive Shift In Online Privacy Policy

This does suck. I also hate that google has been selling this information to companies for years.

And also they are coming out with tracking linked to the tv you watch. This will allow the ad companies to direct ads towards the type of people that they want to convince to buy their crap.

 

[FilthyFletch]

Ok ill go through and rebut those comments again but here is a link that talks about the original user milage tax but I hadnt heard it was now being dropped as when he gave the speech in Illoinois his first month thats when I heard about it from him but this says thaey ahve back down for now on the though I assume from th backlash it created...
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/20/driving.tax/

you got a link to any place that talks about the queen wanting that ipod?

 

[hanimmal]

Ok ill go through and rebut those comments again but here is a link that talks about the original user milage tax but I hadnt heard it was now being dropped as when he gave the speech in Illoinois his first month thats when I heard about it from him but this says thaey ahve back down for now on the though I assume from th backlash it created...
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/20/driving.tax/

you got a link to any place that talks about the queen wanting that ipod?

It was on BBC radio, I will see if I can find a link for you.

Check out the link I provided that actually said what the bill was, the news from cnn, msnbc, fox is usually garbage and just a bastardization of the facts.

Edit: Crap I guess I forgot the link when I was typing about the car taxes. It was basically an outline of how to move away from gas tax, to something that was more distance based. And that got turned into a gas tax.

 

[kho20]

well i was bout to start a thread but hell ill jus post it here .... any of you guys thing that obamas " yes we can" statement came from bob the builders " can we build it, YES WE CAN" jus wondering if so he robbed a children s show for material thats pretty lame

 

[Minnestoner]

You are wrong, that happened under the previous president in Sep. 08.



http://www.all-about-car-selection.com/foreign-cars.html American made cares are not just the big three anymore. Once the program used all the money that it intended, doesn't it make sense to stop pushing something that you are not sure if they were going to extend?

And for the dealerships that decided that this amount of money made is not good enough and got upset, I would tell them isn't 3/4 of the commission better than 100% of nothing?

I cannot go to Ford and demand the money that I have in long term bonds with them, because I am worried. It doesn't work that way.



Yes and no, they bought up tons of raw materials. Essentially it is going to work on the production end, once the world starts to buy they are going to be able to turn on the spicket and not have to spend any money. It was very smart since they are buying very low. Since we are not going to make a bunch of junk to sell to the world that was not the right move for us. We need to improve our infrastructure, our heavy manufacturing days are behind us. We need to focus on technologies.



You missed what I was saying. In the middle of an economic collapse you cannot let huge multifacetted companies fall simply because you think they are a dinosaur. I don't mind them going bankrupt, but to let it happen in the middle of a economic meltdown, you don't want the hundreds of thousands of american workers to lose their job because they cannot get a loan from the banks that are in a crisis.



They use the stalk of the corn for the oil, most the high prices are due to not enough demand for it.

The technologies need to improve and we need to develope new ones. This is the way America can still stay number 1 for the next century, we need to develope our way out of this mess we are in.



No that is WAY wrong, it is a lie that you heard.

They will not deny care to anyone, that is the point. Medicare/aid is the best hands down at giving the doctors the choice of what to do to their patients.

Insurance companies are notorius for denying care that the doctors have told their patients they need, because they don't want to pay for it.



The reason why everything is overpriced at the hospitals is not due to the Doctors pay. It is due to the hospital having to spread the money over the system to pay for the people that don't have insurance and cannot pay.

That is the major problem with the system now. You cannot blame the doctors for what the insurance companies and administrators decide the prices to be. They work damn hard to get a degree that essentially takes ten years and costs about $200k to get.



Your calling 11% the majority? That is how many home mortgages are deliquent or in foreclosure during this crisis.

That is the problem with this, you are confusing 'the majority' with something that is not even close. If the "Majority" of car loans would be in default that would mean that over 51% of all cars bought would be repoed. So out of 13.2 million vehicles that means over 6.6 million cars get repoed. Totally off base.

You are not wrong, if you talk about the 10% that are in repo. It is still very high, but to say majority is wrong.



Again my fiance' is a pharmacist and deals with all the insurances all day every day. And it is a fact that Medicaid/care are the most direct and easy to deal with. Infact you know the Detroit Medical center. They came out and talked about how much money they would save (Hundred thousand a year) just in processing if they got all their people to be on medicare.

Now one thing to know is that people do steal from this system. People are over drugged and constantly want vicodine, percesat, ect. So they try to not give that out unless it is needed, since most people are using it as a drug that they can sell and make a buttload off of our money. That does need to stop.



It is dense to think that they are going to be releasing enemy combatants into the cities. That is not going to happen as we have prisons.



China is the only ones that can deal with N Korea, we should leave it up to them to get their dog on its leash. It is not our fight unless they make it. And they don't have the technology to make it our fight yet.



It may piss you off, but until we have a delcaration saying we have a national language we don't. Should people learn it, of course, as they won't be very helpful to the economy until they do. And those countries have a national language.

The money that they send to mexico to get their families here is lost, but what happens when they get their family here? They stop and are part of the economy.

And again they do not take americans jobs, which is the big thing that people like to cry about. If an american cannot get a job over a person that is poor and not able to talk the language, they should do something about getting some skills.



Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. And they did not find any yellow cake uranium or materials to make nukes.

So I stand by it, we blew their country apart for the wrong reasons. We already were fighting in Afghanastan and had no reason to invade iraq. Even the Generals were saying that it was the wrong move.



And that is why I said you were dangerously close to racism. And I stand by it, even though your trying to clean it up a bit. The middle eastern people are far different from the religious nuts that are blowing themselves up.

I am all for eye for an eye, and really for me it is head for an eye. But to place blame on an entire group of people is dead wrong as most are innocent.



I guess giving an old lady what she requested doesn't ruffle my feathers, did you know it had an origional opera on it that was made for her with a slide show of her times in america. Doesn't matter at all really, but it was nice. It was talked about on the BBC back during the whole hubub.



The stimulus was 787 billion that was what I was going off of, we have not spent 8 trillion.

You need to spend the money on things that matter, not junk. Using that money in this way means that it is being spent and going out into the economy, not into ceo's hands.

And it can be directed into this that last decades and not are just a sugar high that is not able to be used later on.



What I said stands. There is nothing in the works yet, not saying it won't eventually happen but I see that being more around 2012ish so he can get reelected. That is just republican scare tactics at work again.

Geithner said something about making tough desicions in regards to taxes, not the Obama administration. I think that Geithner is right that it should be done to pay for the mess America has gotten itself into the last decade, But then the Obama administration immediatly came out and said that they had no plans on doing this.

So until something more concrete comes out, it is anyones guess. Either way it sucks, but that doesn't mean it cannot go either way as of now. Anything more than that is just a guess.





This does suck. I also hate that google has been selling this information to companies for years.

And also they are coming out with tracking linked to the tv you watch. This will allow the ad companies to direct ads towards the type of people that they want to convince to buy their crap.

You are wrong, that happened under the previous president in Sep. 08.



http://www.all-about-car-selection.com/foreign-cars.html American made cares are not just the big three anymore. Once the program used all the money that it intended, doesn't it make sense to stop pushing something that you are not sure if they were going to extend?

And for the dealerships that decided that this amount of money made is not good enough and got upset, I would tell them isn't 3/4 of the commission better than 100% of nothing?

I cannot go to Ford and demand the money that I have in long term bonds with them, because I am worried. It doesn't work that way.



Yes and no, they bought up tons of raw materials. Essentially it is going to work on the production end, once the world starts to buy they are going to be able to turn on the spicket and not have to spend any money. It was very smart since they are buying very low. Since we are not going to make a bunch of junk to sell to the world that was not the right move for us. We need to improve our infrastructure, our heavy manufacturing days are behind us. We need to focus on technologies.



You missed what I was saying. In the middle of an economic collapse you cannot let huge multifacetted companies fall simply because you think they are a dinosaur. I don't mind them going bankrupt, but to let it happen in the middle of a economic meltdown, you don't want the hundreds of thousands of american workers to lose their job because they cannot get a loan from the banks that are in a crisis.



They use the stalk of the corn for the oil, most the high prices are due to not enough demand for it.

The technologies need to improve and we need to develope new ones. This is the way America can still stay number 1 for the next century, we need to develope our way out of this mess we are in.



No that is WAY wrong, it is a lie that you heard.

They will not deny care to anyone, that is the point. Medicare/aid is the best hands down at giving the doctors the choice of what to do to their patients.

Insurance companies are notorius for denying care that the doctors have told their patients they need, because they don't want to pay for it.



The reason why everything is overpriced at the hospitals is not due to the Doctors pay. It is due to the hospital having to spread the money over the system to pay for the people that don't have insurance and cannot pay.

That is the major problem with the system now. You cannot blame the doctors for what the insurance companies and administrators decide the prices to be. They work damn hard to get a degree that essentially takes ten years and costs about $200k to get.



Your calling 11% the majority? That is how many home mortgages are deliquent or in foreclosure during this crisis.

That is the problem with this, you are confusing 'the majority' with something that is not even close. If the "Majority" of car loans would be in default that would mean that over 51% of all cars bought would be repoed. So out of 13.2 million vehicles that means over 6.6 million cars get repoed. Totally off base.

You are not wrong, if you talk about the 10% that are in repo. It is still very high, but to say majority is wrong.



Again my fiance' is a pharmacist and deals with all the insurances all day every day. And it is a fact that Medicaid/care are the most direct and easy to deal with. Infact you know the Detroit Medical center. They came out and talked about how much money they would save (Hundred thousand a year) just in processing if they got all their people to be on medicare.

Now one thing to know is that people do steal from this system. People are over drugged and constantly want vicodine, percesat, ect. So they try to not give that out unless it is needed, since most people are using it as a drug that they can sell and make a buttload off of our money. That does need to stop.



It is dense to think that they are going to be releasing enemy combatants into the cities. That is not going to happen as we have prisons.



China is the only ones that can deal with N Korea, we should leave it up to them to get their dog on its leash. It is not our fight unless they make it. And they don't have the technology to make it our fight yet.



It may piss you off, but until we have a delcaration saying we have a national language we don't. Should people learn it, of course, as they won't be very helpful to the economy until they do. And those countries have a national language.

The money that they send to mexico to get their families here is lost, but what happens when they get their family here? They stop and are part of the economy.

And again they do not take americans jobs, which is the big thing that people like to cry about. If an american cannot get a job over a person that is poor and not able to talk the language, they should do something about getting some skills.



Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. And they did not find any yellow cake uranium or materials to make nukes.

So I stand by it, we blew their country apart for the wrong reasons. We already were fighting in Afghanastan and had no reason to invade iraq. Even the Generals were saying that it was the wrong move.



And that is why I said you were dangerously close to racism. And I stand by it, even though your trying to clean it up a bit. The middle eastern people are far different from the religious nuts that are blowing themselves up.

I am all for eye for an eye, and really for me it is head for an eye. But to place blame on an entire group of people is dead wrong as most are innocent.



I guess giving an old lady what she requested doesn't ruffle my feathers, did you know it had an origional opera on it that was made for her with a slide show of her times in america. Doesn't matter at all really, but it was nice. It was talked about on the BBC back during the whole hubub.



The stimulus was 787 billion that was what I was going off of, we have not spent 8 trillion.

You need to spend the money on things that matter, not junk. Using that money in this way means that it is being spent and going out into the economy, not into ceo's hands.

And it can be directed into this that last decades and not are just a sugar high that is not able to be used later on.



What I said stands. There is nothing in the works yet, not saying it won't eventually happen but I see that being more around 2012ish so he can get reelected. That is just republican scare tactics at work again.

Geithner said something about making tough desicions in regards to taxes, not the Obama administration. I think that Geithner is right that it should be done to pay for the mess America has gotten itself into the last decade, But then the Obama administration immediatly came out and said that they had no plans on doing this.

So until something more concrete comes out, it is anyones guess. Either way it sucks, but that doesn't mean it cannot go either way as of now. Anything more than that is just a guess.





This does suck. I also hate that google has been selling this information to companies for years.

And also they are coming out with tracking linked to the tv you watch. This will allow the ad companies to direct ads towards the type of people that they want to convince to buy their crap.

 

[FilthyFletch]

You are wrong, that happened under the previous president in Sep. 08.

Fletch: this happened in Febuary and was huge news. Obama even made a televised speech scolding the banks and ceos lol

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http://www.all-about-car-selection.c...eign-cars.html American made cares are not just the big three anymore. Once the program used all the money that it intended, doesn't it make sense to stop pushing something that you are not sure if they were going to extend?

And for the dealerships that decided that this amount of money made is not good enough and got upset, I would tell them isn't 3/4 of the commission better than 100% of nothing?

Fletch: yeah but they stopped as they still havent been paid or reimburst even know they had to ruin the cars and let them get picked up. So lets see your owed hundreds of thousands you have no used cars to sell and get money back and you hear the program is broke. Yeah id stop too and be worried as much money as Obama is spenind you have no idea if you will get paid or if money will be there to pay the program thats why they stopped. lol who the hell was getting 3/4 commisson on those sales? not the salesmen. they were made becasue of this along with any other rebates or trade in what could have been a $150 commission was closer to a $25 commission.Yeah worked well you now have to sell 5 cars to equal one standard commission payout. Average salemen sells 12- cars a month which is hard to do now so he got about a $125 commison check for the month yeah thats great for them dont know why they would not be happy.
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I cannot go to Ford and demand the money that I have in long term bonds with them, because I am worried. It doesn't work that way

Fletch: Again your not familar with bonds apparently. The bonds matured at 25 years old and where issued in 1962 soooo that means they are mature and can be drawn upon anythime after the 25 years or be kept drawing a reduced intereste rate. Ford does not offer this kind of Cash federal Bond only stock options which I must say are doing nicely since I bought more. Made my money 10 times over already.Thanksd Ford..
------------------------------------------------------------------------------=---

Yes and no, they bought up tons of raw materials. Essentially it is going to work on the production end, once the world starts to buy they are going to be able to turn on the spicket and not have to spend any money. It was very smart since they are buying very low. Since we are not going to make a bunch of junk to sell to the world that was not the right move for us. We need to improve our infrastructure, our heavy manufacturing days are behind us. We need to focus on technologies.

We cant do this especially with Obamas plan. he wants to hammer those rich enough to buy in bulk and start factories going on credit and then offers no incenmtives to keep the work in the US as of now. So if your a person who knows if you make good plans and start more work your gonna pay way more taxes just becasue whats the incentive to build here or start more companies. There are none so you cant tax the wealthiest the hardest or they tighten up the belt and everyone under them starves.
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You missed what I was saying. In the middle of an economic collapse you cannot let huge multifacetted companies fall simply because you think they are a dinosaur. I don't mind them going bankrupt, but to let it happen in the middle of a economic meltdown, you don't want the hundreds of thousands of american workers to lose their job because they cannot get a loan from the banks that are in a crisis

Fletch: So in your mind its better to set money on fire then give everyone enought o get by on? Chrysler looses money and a very small work force. the amount of jobs versus the money to support these works doewsnteven out. it would have been cheaper to let it fold as it looses to much and will fail anywyas. Take the watsed money funnel it to other places that can create more jobs with a little boost. There are what 8 chrsyler plants in the US still with under 500 workers at each so how much did it cost to save about 6000 jobs that will be gone in 2 years anyways?? At this time it makes much more sense to par down the fat or the parts that dont contribute and proceded then to drag dead weight around hoping it will kick in when it obviously wont.
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They use the stalk of the corn for the oil, most the high prices are due to not enough demand for it.

The technologies need to improve and we need to develope new ones. This is the way America can still stay number 1 for the next century, we need to develope our way out of this mess we are in

Fletch: Your sure you live in the US right? Did you not see all the reports and the spike in food at grocery stores when they unleashed more of these cars and thats why it was decided to kill that route off as its not just the stalks they use as they get the oil from the kernals and husks also and then the ability to process that is very limited as it cost much more then any other fuel to refine. thats why Ford has begun dropping and moving into more realistic fuels and cars. The resale on used flex fuel vehicles is horrendous also so they cant resell used or new so its a dead technology that was doomed from the get go. You should go to a few Ford stock holders meeeting as your pretty far behind. Fords ability to adapt and change is why its the lone surviver who did what they were supposed to...run a company no hand outs needed and when they announce the nitrogen car fuel cell release stocks will be out of this world.
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No that is WAY wrong, it is a lie that you heard.

They will not deny care to anyone, that is the point. Medicare/aid is the best hands down at giving the doctors the choice of what to do to their patients.

Insurance companies are notorius for denying care that the doctors have told their patients they need, because they don't want to pay for it.

Fletch: This is absolute truth i will find the links that show this as the tsandard in most socilaistic health care systems and will leave this til I post it showing it. The government will set guidelinhes for its insurers and age will be a factor. I will find which Obama member it was but he said "Older people will just have to learn to live with more of lifes aches and pains"..I will post links to this after while..
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Your calling 11% the majority? That is how many home mortgages are deliquent or in foreclosure during this crisis.

That is the problem with this, you are confusing 'the majority' with something that is not even close. If the "Majority" of car loans would be in default that would mean that over 51% of all cars bought would be repoed. So out of 13.2 million vehicles that means over 6.6 million cars get repoed. Totally off base.

You are not wrong, if you talk about the 10% that are in repo. It is still very high, but to say majority is wrong.

Fletch: I said the majority of Homes morgages or you did as I didnt please repost that. I compared the issues of those home loans to the same issue developing in the car business. thats all i compared. Now I have first hand knowledge of car approval rates, late payments and repos.. On average right now of applicants who come in feeling they can get a new car 1 in 12 applications is approved so that what about 8.5 % aproval of those who cam ein thinking theyu could get a car. Now of those people about 4% barely get approved and ar considered high risk and go into a simple CAC program at high interest loan rates. OIf those in that program the late behind and repo rate is close to 60%...meaning yes the majority of people who buy a new car cant afford it and either are late behind in payments in default or in full reposession.Now throw in how many people came in who couldnt afford the down payment but thier 450 car just got them the $4500 for pre approval now the repo default numbers jump even higher. The market within 24 months will be flooded with used high dollar vehicles making the auto sales industry dead.
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Again my fiance' is a pharmacist and deals with all the insurances all day every day. And it is a fact that Medicaid/care are the most direct and easy to deal with. Infact you know the Detroit Medical center. They came out and talked about how much money they would save (Hundred thousand a year) just in processing if they got all their people to be on medicare.

Now one thing to know is that people do steal from this system. People are over drugged and constantly want vicodine, percesat, ect. So they try to not give that out unless it is needed, since most people are using it as a drug that they can sell and make a buttload off of our money. That does need to stop.

Fletch: And again my finacee is a transplant patient twice in last 13 years. Your only covered up to 3 years post transplant which means the costs are cheaper for the meds but geting them is an adventure every day. You go to pick up and its denied or they have th wrong refill dates and qautity then yoiu have to fax call and wait to get through to them usually you ll gte a partial and have to come back next week. This si for medicine that you need to live not the pain stuff just the kind they know ithout it your dead within 72 hours they will refuse it but thank good the pharmasist knows how it works and give the partial til he gets it through. Noyt as bad as Blue Cross blue shield but close.Now on the vicodin and percs yeah people abuse but to out right ban them as proposed is just crazy. regulate more and watch distribution fine but to ban is nuts.
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China is the only ones that can deal with N Korea, we should leave it up to them to get their dog on its leash. It is not our fight unless they make it. And they don't have the technology to make it our fight yet.

Fletch: So your on the boat of dont be retroactive just wait for a missle launch then pay attention? If korea got made an launched it would trigger a huge worl war so i do think we should pay close attention and do what is need to controlt:Thier Dog" as much as we can without having to go full out war with them.
_________________________________________________________________________

It may piss you off, but until we have a delcaration saying we have a national language we don't. Should people learn it, of course, as they won't be very helpful to the economy until they do. And those countries have a national language.

The money that they send to mexico to get their families here is lost, but what happens when they get their family here? They stop and are part of the economy.

And again they do not take americans jobs, which is the big thing that people like to cry about. If an american cannot get a job over a person that is poor and not able to talk the language, they should do something about getting some skills.

Fletch: You do realise by law english is our national language? maybe you didnt kind of like by law you have to bring an american flag inside if it rains or snow? These are all declarations but gues some dont know as its taken for granted. All other languages are secondary languages but english is our declared countries language. You say what happens when they get thier illegal family smuggled over...they bring extended families over grand kinds uncles it never stops then its a wife or fiancee then their family.I see this first hand daily I know illegals yeah some are nice people but they are here illegally go back and come in legal and no problems. They almost never enetr into the system and contribute trhats just fact cant hide it just is.On border towns they sneak in work then sneak back never stay here just take the money. we neede more border protction setup really with more armed patrols. Another border agent was killed last week by illegals crossing in.
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Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. And they did not find any yellow cake uranium or materials to make nukes.

So I stand by it, we blew their country apart for the wrong reasons. We already were fighting in Afghanastan and had no reason to invade iraq. Even the Generals were saying that it was the wrong move

Fletch: And see this is where democrates close thier eyes and refuse to acknowledge ther were 3 reason given but to you mass murder genocide similar to hitlers nazi camps are fine I guess littel raceist if you ask me but thats your view. Blatantly training and funding terror groups in direct vilation of the Desert storm peace agreemnet I guess is ok with you too who need laws right do whatever you want its fine..Id hate to be you and tell a half million peoples family they didnt really have thier family members gassed and killed...oh and we did find paper work and recipts fro the nuclear refinery parts they said they didnt have. yeah thats was pretty big considering France was selling it to them via corrrupt Unicef shipment who got a kickback. gee and France didnt want us going in and refused to help wonder why oh yeah the billion dolars they made from it.Oh and the genbral werent agisnt going intyo Iraq they were against foot soldiers and wanted more air raids and bombing before we went in big differnce.
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And that is why I said you were dangerously close to racism. And I stand by it, even though your trying to clean it up a bit. The middle eastern people are far different from the religious nuts that are blowing themselves up.

I am all for eye for an eye, and really for me it is head for an eye. But to place blame on an entire group of people is dead wrong as most are innocent.

Fletch: Might want to get out a dictionary and look the word racist up as you dont seem to have a good grasp of the definition. i dont hate any race. i do have a dilike for some of my own speies thought. And those tend to be ones who strap explosives to 6 year old children and send them into a group of troops then detonate them..Yeah those type are animals to me so do i have hate yup is it race nope not one bit and no where was that expressed by me.. The group i place blame on are the terror groups all of them but being the majority are middle eastern and hide behind thier families who then defend and protect them those are supporters. Otherwise tuen them in for compassion for life show mumanity stop them before they randomly go killing. if not your the same.
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I guess giving an old lady what she requested doesn't ruffle my feathers, did you know it had an origional opera on it that was made for her with a slide show of her times in america. Doesn't matter at all really, but it was nice. It was talked about on the BBC back during the whole hubub.

Fletch: Like i said i never heard or saw any place say she asked for it. i heard what was on it but Ill go looking since you cant provide any info on where that was stated yet.
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The stimulus was 787 billion that was what I was going off of, we have not spent 8 trillion.

You need to spend the money on things that matter, not junk. Using that money in this way means that it is being spent and going out into the economy, not into ceo's hands.

And it can be directed into this that last decades and not are just a sugar high that is not able to be used later on.

Fletch:
I went by his entire planned budget he has made for his dumb ass ideas. that moeny could be better spent giving it out then on what his plans are...yes things that are junk right now and a waste..clunkers program, all road inprovement which has been shown to not even be used on roads but funneled elsewhere already. the signs they fed requires go up are priced at $8500 each is that not a crazy waste and the government takes that out of each funded grant. where is that monery going for a $200 sign?
To spend money in the economy means the people spend it and get a return on it that helped them take a step out of the whol;e. Not making shiney shit for them to think about they need immediate relief not 20 years down the road that comes later.
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What I said stands. There is nothing in the works yet, not saying it won't eventually happen but I see that being more around 2012ish so he can get reelected. That is just republican scare tactics at work again.

Geithner said something about making tough desicions in regards to taxes, not the Obama administration. I think that Geithner is right that it should be done to pay for the mess America has gotten itself into the last decade, But then the Obama administration immediatly came out and said that they had no plans on doing this.

So until something more concrete comes out, it is anyones guess. Either way it sucks, but that doesn't mean it cannot go either way as of now. Anything more than that is just a guess.

Fletch: well its pretty much outlined just the basics of how far down in the middle class they will tax and the exact amount but looks like a 10-13% tax increase for the middle class and last i heard he wants it in for next tax season so january or feb it should be in place we will see on it

 

[FilthyFletch]

Im thinking we will have to cut this back and forth out as we are killing the thread as its getting long and we will not see eye to eye as i see Obama as a threat to freedom and our life while you see him as more of something you want telling you how to live lol either way I say letsb stop the long posts and let ehm be as is and move to more obama bashing sound good

 

[purplekitty7772008]

and now you can see where the real "big brother" is hannimal:




Government Proposes Massive Shift In Online Privacy Policy (8/10/2009)

Changes Would Pose Serious Threat To Americans’ Personal Information, Says ACLU​

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
CONTACT: (202) 675-2312; [email protected]

WASHINGTON – The American Civil Liberties Union submitted comments today to the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) opposing its recent proposal to reverse current federal policy and allow the use of web tracking technologies, like cookies, on federal government websites. Cookies can be used to track an Internet user’s every click and are often linked across multiple websites; they frequently identify particular people.
Since 2000, it has been the policy of the federal government not to use such technology. But the OMB is now seeking to change that policy and is considering the use of cookies for tracking web visitors across multiple sessions and storing their unique preferences and surfing habits. Though this is a major shift in policy, the announcement of this program consists of only a single page from the federal register that contains almost no detail.

“This is a sea change in government privacy policy,” said Michael Macleod-Ball, Acting Director of the ACLU Washington Legislative Office. “Without explaining this reversal of policy, the OMB is seeking to allow the mass collection of personal information of every user of a federal government website. Until the OMB answers the multitude of questions surrounding this policy shift, we will continue to raise our strenuous objections.”

The use of cookies allows a website to differentiate between users and build a database of each user’s viewing habits and the information they share with the site. Since web surfers frequently share information like their name or email address (if they’ve signed up for a service) or search request terms, the use of cookies frequently allows a user’s identity and web surfing habits to be linked. In addition, websites can allow third parties, such as advertisers, to also place cookies on a user’s computer.

“Americans rely on the information from the federal government to research politics, medical issues and legal requirements. The OMB is now asking to retain the personal and identifiable information we leave behind,” said Christopher Calabrese, Counsel for the ACLU Technology and Liberty Project. “No American should have to sacrifice privacy or risk surveillance in order to access free government information. No policy change should be adopted without wide ranging debate including information on the restrictions and uses of cookies as well as impact on privacy.”

Yeah, I read about this...

just a few days ago.

Does anyone know where I can get more information on this?

 

[purplekitty7772008]

Im thinking we will have to cut this back and forth out as we are killing the thread as its getting long and we will not see eye to eye as i see Obama as a threat to freedom and our life while you see him as more of something you want telling you how to live lol either way I say letsb stop the long posts and let ehm be as is and move to more obama bashing sound good

damn. i was enjoying reading all of the debate...

I don't mind if you keep going.

kiss-ass

 

[FilthyFletch]

lol I mean its cool to debate back and forth but I learned from being on the site if I seem to be having fun i better stop or someone will report me and I hate time outs so i dont wont to go to much as it was kinda fun but that means Im about to get in trouble and nothing like getting ban and then having to sit quietly in time out lol

 

[hanimmal]

Im thinking we will have to cut this back and forth out as we are killing the thread as its getting long and we will not see eye to eye as i see Obama as a threat to freedom and our life while you see him as more of something you want telling you how to live lol either way I say letsb stop the long posts and let ehm be as is and move to more obama bashing sound good

Either way about the debate. I will continue to try to help people understand the facts.

And your thinking that I 'see him as more of something youwant telling you how to live' cannot be further from the truth. I just realize how the health coverage debate is in the best interest of our country and am willing to stand up for it and keep talking about it, especially because of the mass republican movement to spread lies about it.

Yeah, I read about this...

just a few days ago.

Does anyone know where I can get more information on this?

Here you go Kitty http://cdt.org/security/CYBERSEC4.pdf

 

[hanimmal]

lol I mean its cool to debate back and forth but I learned from being on the site if I seem to be having fun i better stop or someone will report me and I hate time outs so i dont wont to go to much as it was kinda fun but that means Im about to get in trouble and nothing like getting ban and then having to sit quietly in time out lol

lol

 

[wilsoncr17]

Im so sick of seeing this assholes ugly moled up face making speeches every god damn day.

Too bad, you got 3+ years left. I say, if you're gonna bitch about something, bitch about something you can actually do something about.

 

[hanimmal]

Like the MMJ bill that Barney Frank put out, we need to get on it, that would be a win for everyone. And something that we should all be able to get behind.

 

[oasis515]

HAHA--- the other guys had eight years and actually DID mess things up (it's a fact deal with it) and people are bitching about obama after he's been in office for less than a year???? - Give him a chance. whether people like him or not the economy isn't going off of a cliff anymore and I applaud someone for "trying" to fix healthcare even though it won't work. Better than doing nothing and watching health care costs rise by 50% in the last ten years.

 

[purplekitty7772008]

thanks hanimmal.

 

[TheBrutalTruth]

HAHA--- the other guys had eight years and actually DID mess things up (it's a fact deal with it) and people are bitching about obama after he's been in office for less than a year???? - Give him a chance. whether people like him or not the economy isn't going off of a cliff anymore and I applaud someone for "trying" to fix healthcare even though it won't work. Better than doing nothing and watching health care costs rise by 50% in the last ten years.

Eight months, that is a sixth of the time that that ass clown has in office. If the first sixth of his time in office is marred by the kind of incompetence, imbecility and corruption that has been self-evident what makes you think that the remaining five fifths will not be more of the same.

Besides, when a fool like Obama attempts to dick around with the nation it makes sense to make sure to keep a close eye on him and let him know that his plans are doomed to failure, less he get any more "brilliant" ideas and attempt to implement those.

Eight months, that's nigh on eternity, and what is done now will echo through eternity, better to criticize him from the get go instead of standing on the sidelines and letting him do as he wishes.

 

[purplekitty7772008]

omg, i don't even like what I'm reading right from the get-go:

America’s failure to protect cyberspace is​

​

​

​

​

one of the most urgent national security problems​

facing the country.

You've gotta be fucking kidding me? One of the most urgent?



And how about this line:

"Decisions and actions must respect privacy and civil liberties, and..."

If they want to respect our privacy and civil liberties, then
foot this fucking bill.

This is hypocrasy at its finest.

 

[oasis515]

what is wrong with the country (ex: the economy, wars in two countrys , healthcare and taxes) hasn't happened in the past 8 months. just wanted to let you know you seem a little foggy on that. What country has ever recovered from a serious recession in under a year?

 

[Bigdog1]

My God, white people are UPSET at the fact that their president is a black Muslim from Kenya! Hilarious! I never thought I would see the day when white folks are more bitter than black people.

This thread is pure comedy!