HID or CFl. is my box too big or too small

i cant decide which is more practical. save and buy a HPS or completely fill this thing with CFLs. 4 foot high 4 feet wide and 2 feet deep. 8 square feet and 3000 lumens per square foot tell me thats 24000 lumems. thats a lot of cfls and im really not sure how i feel about that or if there will be a decent show in my bill. so the question is, a bunch of cfls or a smaller HPS. 150w - 250w. then if i deal with HPS im more worried about the heat issue than anything else. with cfls i kinda liked i wouldnt have to worry about that too much. they both have their pros and cons just wanna see wat some of you guys think. thanks happy smoking tuneinturnondropout
 

Roseman

Elite Rolling Society
You are not going to use 100% of the 8 sq feet of grow space, I bet you only use half of that, 4 sq feet, so you only need 20,000 luments to equal the suns light in your space.(2 X 10,000) 315 watts of CFLs would do it, I think. With the limited height too, there is not a lot of room for reflecotr hood and cool tube and venting the heat.

I'd get 10 42 watt bulbs, half 6500k, half 2700 k.
 

breakneck

Calyx LED
You are not going to use 100% of the 8 sq feet of grow space, I bet you only use half of that, 4 sq feet, so you only need 20,000 luments to equal the suns light in your space. 315 watts of CFLs would do it, I think. With the limited height too, there is not a lot of room for reflecotr hood and cool tube and venting the heat.

I'd get 10 42 watt bulbs, half 6500k, half 2700 k.
Another perfect reply from RoseMan! You are the man, my man. Haha +rep
 

Roseman

Elite Rolling Society
Another perfect reply from RoseMan! You are the man, my man. Haha +rep

+ REP back at ya, bro.

from my tutorial:

Let me tell you about CFLs.

From Ed Rosenthal:

In the new Skunk Magazine there was a question in the "Ask Ed" section that just made my night last night when reading it...



The question was:

I intend to grow a single cannabis plant in a space 1' x 2'. What light would you recommend? I was think of using four 30-watt compact fluorescent lamps. Will this be enough? Cost isn't an issue but I am deterred from getting a high pressure sodium [light] because of the amount of heat the bulb produces.

Answer:

As you mentioned, you have several lighting systems to choose from, including compact fluorescents and high pressure sodium (HPS) lamps. Among HPS lamps you have a choice between a single 100-watt lamp which uses a total of about 120-watts and emits about 8,800 lumens(73 lumens per watt) or a 150-watt lamp, which uses about 180 watts and emits almost double that-15,800 lumens (87 lumens per watt).

A 42-watt compact fluorescent (CFL) emits about 2700 lumens(64 lumens per watt). Four 42 watt CFLs use 168 watts and emit 10,800 lumens. Other size CFLs have a similar efficiency.

However, that is only part of the story. Plants use mostly red and blue light. Yellow and green light is of little use to them, so light that is emitted in these spectrums is wasted energy. Most of the light emitted by HPS lamps is in the yellow spectrum. Only a small amount of the emitted light is is in the orange or red spectrums, which plants use efficiently. Warm white fluorescents (2700 Kelvin) emit a greater portion in the red and orange sectors.
Although fluorescents produce only about 75% of the light per watt that the HPS does, the amount of light usable by the plant is equal or probably higher with the fluorescents. You may wish to experiment to see if adding a single cool white CFL to replace one warm white results in shorter, stouter stems and more vigorous growth. The reasoning is that warm whites don't emit much blue light, which the plants use for photosynthesis and to regulate their growth. The cool white bulb supplies the blue light.

My call for your unit would be to use several (three to five) CFLs with a total input of between 120-160 watts. Although the 150 watt HPS is a bit more efficient that the CFLs in total output, watt for watt the fluorescents provide as much useful light as the HPS lamp. Heat is another consideration. The HPS runs much hotter and emits more heat than the fluoescents.

Make sure to use reflective material around the garden so that any light escaping the garden is reflected back to the plants. Any light that doesn't get to the plant leaves is wasted.


Look at a lumen/watt ration of various CFL's. The higher the wattage of CFLs, the lower the lumen/watt ratio. This chart was submitted by Jerry Garcia, of RIU and edited for typos.

For example...

the 200w listed at 9250 lumens for a lumens/watt ratio of 9250/200=46.25

the 150w is listed at 7500 lumens for a l/w ratio of 7500/150=50

the 125w is listed at 6500 lumens for a l/w ratio of 6500/125=52

the 42w are listed for 2700 lumens, l/w ratio of 2700/42=64.28

I have some 26w that give off 1700 lumens for a l/w ratio of 1700/26=65.38

GE lists some 13w that give off 825 lumens for a l/w ratio of 825/13=63.46

So, according to these numbers the most efficient bulbs for growing are the 26w that emit 1700 lumens. If you used 8 26w bulbs (208 watts total) you'd be getting 13,600 lumens...4,350 more lumens than a single 200 watt cfl.

I suppose you need to purchase more sockets and cords and things to support 8 bulbs, but in the long run more lower watt CFLs seem like the way to go.
 

Corbat420

Well-Known Member
So, according to these numbers the most efficient bulbs for growing are the 26w that emit 1700 lumens. If you used 8 26w bulbs (208 watts total) you'd be getting 13,600 lumens...4,350 more lumens than a single 200 watt cfl.
this perticular statement has ment alot to me. i allways thought i would have to have some big fancy set-up to support my flowering room with fresh clones/seedlings, somewhere in the range of $1500~ with lighting cooling ect. but i paid attention to roseman and got to thinking on CFL's.
now i have 10x 23W (1600lumen) CFL's (1/2 2500k and 1/2 6500K) with 2 2foot T5's in a cardboard box that supports my 5x5 1000W flowering room.

the Box+Lights,power strips, fan AND SEEDS($200~) cost me around $400........thats $100 less that i would have spent of some fancy light, let alone the fancy room....

listen to this man, The Roseman knows exactly what hes talking about.




o yea: Thx Roseman! dont think i ever said that!
 

devestating

Active Member
why do you mix the kelvins of CFL's in the same box, i thought you were supposed to use a certain amount for veg and a certain amount for flower ?
 

Roseman

Elite Rolling Society
why do you mix the kelvins of CFL's in the same box, i thought you were supposed to use a certain amount for veg and a certain amount for flower ?

From Spring time to Autumn, from April to October, the sun doesn't produce 100% red OR blue spectrums. There is always a DUAL Spectrum, a blend of UVA and UVB and a blend of high kelvin or low kelvin rays, a blend of red and blue. But, there is more of one than the other, depending on the time of year and the Grow Cycle of VEG or Bloom.
I use a 40-60% or a 33% - 66% mix, all the time. I have read many places that a 50-50% moix is much better than 100% of only one spectrum.

DUAL SPECTRUM
With CFLs, you need the DUAL SPECTRUM, red and blue spectrums. That does not refer to the color of the bulb that you see. It refers to the kind of rays, like UVA or UVB, or the color temp of the bulb, called kelvins.
CFLS come in 2700 kevins, 3000, 4100, 5100, and 6500.

Low Kelvin bulbs, like the 2700k is for BLOOM OR FLOWERING, 6500k is for the VEG Spectrum. The others are "MID" spectrums or in between.
IF you use the MID-range bulbs (4100) then also use the 6500 and 2700s for a balanced spectrum.
In outdoors, the sun produces different rays in the spring (VEG Rays called Blue) and late summer rays for the Bloom spectrum, the RED spectrum. The sun also produces green, and orange rays, but plants do not use them.

 

Roseman

Elite Rolling Society
Here is a supportive article a friend of mine wrote:


The Importance Of Mixed Lighting (Dual Spectrum)

It is common knowledge that plants absorb warm and cool spectrum of light throughout its life. But I find that the importance of mixed lighting is understressed throughout the growing community.
During the flowering phase of a plants life, Warm light is better utilized to increase the size of a plant's buds. As CFL growers we tend to pile up on 2700k bulbs to increase our yield. In most cases, growers assume that warm light not only grants us larger buds, but insures that those buds are of connoisseur quality as well. This is not to say that one can not achieve a very successful crop off of pure warm spectrum 2700k lighting. We see it all the time as members of the Grow Forum Internet community. But as CFL growers, almost all of us demand a higher efficiency for our dollar.
So what does this mean? Clearly I'm trying to emphasize the necessity of cool lighting during the flowering phase of a plants life. But why? Well thats simple. As many of you may have heard or read before, Cool lighting (6500k) introduces a UVB spectrum that benefits the potency of the buds our plants are producing.
" The writer's own experience allow for a more specific conclusion: If the UVB photon is missing from the light stream(a), or the intensity as expressed in µW/cm2 falls below a certain level(b), the phytochemical process will not be completely energized with only UVA photons which are more penetrating but less energetic, and the harvested resin spheres will have mostly precursor compounds and not fully realized THC(c).

Now it would be completely unreasonable to ask a grower using a 1000watt HPS to switch out for MH lighting even though it produces quality of the weed. Sticking with blue spectrum lighting in a plants flowering phase would greatly decrease the size of the buds and the yield of the plant. People using high wattage systems tend to grow for cash crop. No single person really needs a pound of buds.
" “Metal halide produce the best potent buds with less lumens for the money but better smoke. After years of testing with some friends who did want to keep THEIR recipe (more hps) I found their buds to be harsh, full of CBD, make me eat and sleep. The blue spectrum will give you a final product that have everything included:taste without curing, potency and yield.
For lower wattage growers who grow for self use, and are not on a low budget, it would be beneficial to replace their HPS with an MH for the last week or two of budding. This is because the last weeks of a plants life before harvesting is dedicated to the ripening of the buds, and not the growth of the bud itself. It would not greatly impact the yield of the plant, but have a great effect on the quality. Interesting, but this only applies to a few amount of growers that fit this category.
As CFL growers, we would be fools to ignore such information. It is astonishing that so many fantastic growers to not utilize cool lighting even to a small supplemental degree. We owe it to our selves to scrounge up a few bucks in change and take a drive to Home Depot. Buy a pack of 6500k bulbs (26watts tend to be popular, 42s are better) and set them somewhere not far off from your buds. Don't let your hard work return with unsatisfaction. Added quality with increased quantity(more light). Mixed lighting should be standard knowledge, not found in the advanced cultivation section.

Side Note: Reptile lighting found at pet stores is not ideal for UVB lighting. Yes they do emit a high % of UVB than regular CFLs but they output less light and emit over 12x more UVA light than UVB light which can harm your plant.


Contributed and submitted by Chase1126, and edited for links and spelling.
__________________
 
roseman, what can i say thanks again man. youve been more help to me so far than anyone else. not to say that others posts are useful but you are just a wealth of knowledge and i thank you for sharing your expertise. after reading all this ive officially decided on cfls. i came up with an idea like having all the lights mounted on a flat piece of osb thats just smaller than 2'x4' and have that chain adjustable so i can have all my cfls for flowering as close the my babies a possible, me and my girl cleaned out the attic today. im gonna start construction tomorow and it should be up and running a heat test for my veg room by monday. the veg is 4, i think theyre 3 and a half feet, standard shop light length, but 4 flourescent grow tubes with some smaller grow tubes i put in some hoods from old fish tanks. i love veging with these because i can keep 2 bulbs, or 1 light a little higher and then move the other 1 down for my clones and new seedlings to prevent that go awful stretch. thats and they dont create such little heat im able to put hang them very close. the flowering room is the other 4 foot side of the 8 foot long box. that can wait about another two months since it wont be in use until at minimum 60 days. so i guess i just start saving for those make your own light kits and light bulbs haha. again thanks for all the help. i found out today i should have access to a camera so as soon as this thing is up ans running and heat test i should be able to take a few pics for ya. once i post pics i have a few questions on the best way to run my fans. probly something like 2 per side. one in and one out. im thinkin i wanna put my intake at the bottom and my out at the top since hot air rises. im not sure yet. any suggestions would be great. thanks for posting, just got a sample of my buddies grow. aurora indica and some sativa which isnt done yet but the indica has been chopped and cured and let me say its an extremely good strain for anxiety and sleep disorders. my heart goes out to allllll the indica lovers. happy smoking, tuneinturnondropout
 

Roseman

Elite Rolling Society
You're welcomed, bro, I'm just paying it forward.


Lets look at some Clamp Reflectors:



The above are the CHEAP ones, and not durable.


Below are the very good ones:


IF you see PLASTIC on the Clamp Reflector, they are cheap and flimsey and you should avoid them.

If you plan on using a 105 watt CFL bulb in a Clamp Refector, you will need one of these:



I have come to believe that 2 42 watt bulbs, in one Clamp Reflector is the most efficient, cost effective way to provide light to your Grow.
You also need one of these

and two of these




Available in black or cream colored at Walmart, Lowes, Home Depot and any Hardware store, about $1.69 to $1.99.
They are used to put two 42 watt CFLS in one Reflector.

I also like these:



1 to 4 Sockets Adapter A4E27


This adapter will allow 4 bulbs to be installed in one socket. Each socket on the adapter can support up to 250W, so it support up to 1000W in total.


I have seen these lined up and used in a Surge Protector:


Or try two of these :


in one of these:



One in each side. There is a socket on the bottom of this that u can not see.


One of those equals 3 sockets all 90 degrees apart
 

alforra

Member
lol.. you are all over that shit man! I've been getting interested in CFL's lately and this thread pretty much covered it. I think I'm going to make 2 small grow boxes both big enough to hold 1 plant.. one for veg and one for flowering. I'll use a 60-40 mix of lighting like you said. What kind of size would you recommend for the boxes? and is there such a thing as too much light or can I line it with as much as I like?
 

Phenom420

Well-Known Member
Hey man CFL, you def dont really have to space to deal with HPS.
Might cost a little more but you can position your lights to better suite your girls anyway
 
with all this feed back on my, i think i only have like5 so far, posts i definately feel welcome and i appriciate that more than anything. thats why i joined this forum. i watched most of you talk for about a month to get the feel of how you all did things. i hate being shunned in a forum i join just for asking questions. and with as many highly experienced growers out there like RoseMan... ect i definately appriciate a welcomed feeling. ----- i picked up a box of nutes i had around the house. its like allll nitrogen. nitroggen is specifically good for flowering or veg, i know its one of them? i think its phosphorus for the one thats not nitrogen. thanks guy, happy smoking TUNEINTURNONDROPOUT
 
sweet, its midnight where im at, my girls roomate left for work about 2 hours ago. im done basic contruction. getting a jig saw on thursday so i can cut my vent holes. tomorow im gonna hang the lights and paint the outside with some extra half empty gallons i got layin around. i picked this real majestic yellow and a baby blue haha. tomorow ill get soil and pots. i dont think im gonna germinate my seeds until my room is 100% ready. every time i jump the gun and germinate my seeds a few days early while still working on my room the seeds germ real fast and i have to rush to get them in soil. so im just gonna wait. ive been waiting long enough due to heat and money restrictions anyway so its all good. gonna start a grow journal too. this is gonna be fun. thanks for everything happy smoking, TUNEINturnondropout
 

Phenom420

Well-Known Member
sweet, its midnight where im at, my girls roomate left for work about 2 hours ago. im done basic contruction. getting a jig saw on thursday so i can cut my vent holes. tomorow im gonna hang the lights and paint the outside with some extra half empty gallons i got layin around. i picked this real majestic yellow and a baby blue haha. tomorow ill get soil and pots. i dont think im gonna germinate my seeds until my room is 100% ready. every time i jump the gun and germinate my seeds a few days early while still working on my room the seeds germ real fast and i have to rush to get them in soil. so im just gonna wait. ive been waiting long enough due to heat and money restrictions anyway so its all good. gonna start a grow journal too. this is gonna be fun. thanks for everything happy smoking, TUNEINturnondropout
Yeah I got 12 seedlings Ive been neglecting and I laid another 8 down a bit ago aint I smart
 
geeze man how big is your grow? and hey i have a question, wats your personal recomendation for a seed co. that ships to the us. i honestly cant decide
 
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