Stop blaming "issues" on pH people! aka "ah cant take no mo'!

[Uncle Ben]

I see it all the time, the first thing out of an in-experienced's grower's mouth is "have you checked the pH?" when it comes to a plant problem. If you don't know what the member's problem is, the forum favorite remedy - pH, is not going to help, nor make you look any smarter to the masses. pH adjusted water, especially using organic acids such as citric, will not have any long term corrective affect on most soils - soil is a powerful buffer.

Then it's the old "add epsom salts"....another forum paradigm that won't go away. Most folks only want to help and that's OK, but you can actually do more harm than good if the grower takes advice that is not correct.

pH - Cannabis is quite pH tolerant, it's a nutrient elemental uptake issue (not leaf cupping, wilt, lack of buds, etc.) and as long as the pH of the soil is not totally wacked out i.e. 5.0 or 8.6, you're OK. Hydro is different, a lower pH is usually recommended depending on foods used, type of medium, etc.

Get rid of the cheap moisture and pH meters - they do more harm than good.

Epsom Salts additions - Sorry folks, it's not a magic cure-all as you would like to believe. Since folks provide Mg in some form or fashion to their faves, Mg deficiencies are actually quite rare. An Mg deficiency will show up in the lower to mid level leaves as a chlorosis, a pale yellow or whitish-yellow background in the leaf with green veins. DO NOT OVER CORRECT with 2 tblsp./gallon if you are sure there is indeed a Mg deficiency. By over-correcting, you're gonna be doing another "aw shit" by inducing a deficiency of another element, say..... calcium. The concept is called nutrient antagonism. http://www.totalgro.com/concepts.htm

Good luck,
UB

 

[XxNinjaxX]

Good 2c u again UB.
Maybe all this anger ur experiencing is due to an emotional imbalance - Have u checked ur PH?

 

[shnkrmn]

Good 2c u again UB.
Maybe all this anger ur experiencing is due to an emotional imbalance - Have u checked ur PH?

When I ask 'what's your pH'? I am trying to discover if the poster has any control at all over his grow. There's a shit ton of people here who are trying to grow with 5.0 or 8.5 water and don't know it and don't understand why things are going wrong.

I have to use RO water; my tap water is over 400 ppm. This automatically gives me cal-mag issues and I use cal-mag plus to address that. But the first time I experienced a magnesium deficiency I didn't know what it was; I thought I had 1) over-fertilized 2) had bugs 3) was a bad person. I foliar sprayed with epsom salts because someone told me to. It worked and my problem resolved within a few days and I bought some cal-mag plus and haven't had a problem since (not that problem, anyway). But I certainly know how to diagnose Mg deficiency. In spite of what you say it is a very common problem, especially with newby growers who are using storebought RO or distilled water.

Anyway, if you 'can't take no mo', I'm sorry. I know you have some great posts/threads and are quite knowledgeable but being cranky doesn't really help your message.

 

[shnkrmn]

This is from the website you reference at the end of your post:

Use of high alkalinity waters in container-grown crops and in plug production may result in significant increases in soil pH. These increases result not from water pH as is commonly thought, but from the accumulation of bicarbonates deposited from repeated applications of irrigation water. Deficiencies of iron, manganese, copper and zinc are common where high alkalinity waters are being used. A water test will give you guidelines for lowering water pH and reducing alkalinity. By reducing water pH, alkalinity is also reduced. Alkalinity, not water pH, causes soil pH increases. Low alkalinity, high pH waters in most cases will not be a problem. Have your water tested often.

 

[greenlanter]

dont own a ph meter , i flush and check the ph of the flushed water at the pet store . and i have recomended epson salts , but clearly stated that it wont cure ur plants it would just help in small amoutns... we all run into the sites scientis once in a blue that tell us creazy etchniqes and methods that ,if wrongly fallow and aplied may do more harm to ur grow... i just wanted to say i agree with you...

 

[redivider]

hey it might be true what you say, but i have some friends that studied agronomy and they would have a fit if they saw this post.

They have told me that ph is very VERY important when growing anything, this includes grass. Even IF grass is tolerant, the water and nute solution used should be slightly acidic, for a whole host of reasons.


I will take their word, over yours any day. These guys manage commercial farms that run 365 days a year with rotating crops.

so yeah, i'll keep saying it: CHECK YOUR PH!!

 

[SlikWiLL13]

has anybody ever read somebody advise someone to Ph thier water and then all thier problems will dissapear? or maybe is that the first step in diagnosing/fixing the problem?

you seem to get more amd more disgruntled with every thread you start UB. not to mention that your advise doesnt apply to hydro at all yet you certainly dont point that out to your readers.

and

 

[probo24]

If their is such a thing as proper ph levels
for soil and hydro, why wouldn't you try to
maintain said levels?

If ph isn't an issue i should have no problems with Fox Farms Tigerbloom.

Once i bought a digital ph meter, the overall health of my plants improved a great deal. Nowhere was this more evident than during flowering.

 

[smppro]

I see it all the time, the first thing out of an in-experienced's grower's mouth is "have you checked the pH?" when it comes to a plant problem. If you don't know what the member's problem is, the forum favorite remedy - pH, is not going to help, nor make you look any smarter to the masses. pH adjusted water, especially using organic acids such as citric, will not have any long term corrective affect on most soils - soil is a powerful buffer.

Then it's the old "add epsom salts"....another forum paradigm that won't go away. Most folks only want to help and that's OK, but you can actually do more harm than good if the grower takes advice that is not correct.

pH - Cannabis is quite pH tolerant, it's a nutrient elemental uptake issue (not leaf cupping, wilt, lack of buds, etc.) and as long as the pH of the soil is not totally wacked out i.e. 5.0 or 8.6, you're OK. Hydro is different, a lower pH is usually recommended depending on foods used, type of medium, etc.

Get rid of the cheap moisture and pH meters - they do more harm than good.

Epsom Salts additions - Sorry folks, it's not a magic cure-all as you would like to believe. Since folks provide Mg in some form or fashion to their faves, Mg deficiencies are actually quite rare. An Mg deficiency will show up in the lower to mid level leaves as a chlorosis, a pale yellow or whitish-yellow background in the leaf with green veins. DO NOT OVER CORRECT with 2 tblsp./gallon if you are sure there is indeed a Mg deficiency. By over-correcting, you're gonna be doing another "aw shit" by inducing a deficiency of another element, say..... calcium. The concept is called nutrient antagonism. http://www.totalgro.com/concepts.htm

Good luck,
UB

Agreed

 

[NoBarriers]

I screwed up my first grow trying to correct ph. Now I mix in some lime when I mix my soil and don't even bother checking PH, Ever....

 

[doniawon]

what about in hydro.. i seem to think my plants tell me when when the ph is out. most tap water in my area in around 8.0 and i can definatly tell ph problems.. and they happen.. and usually aid in nutrient lockout. my leaves get all wavy about 2 days after my ph raises when i take my little vacations

 

[Uncle Ben]

my leaves get all wavy about 2 days after my ph raises when i take my little vacations

No offense mi amigo but I'm gonna to point out your statement to make my case. What is the cause-n-effect relationship of pH regarding wavy leaves?

Thanks for playing along,
UB

 

[Uncle Ben]

When I ask 'what's your pH'? I am trying to discover if the poster has any control at all over his grow. There's a shit ton of people here who are trying to grow with 5.0 or 8.5 water and don't know it and don't understand why things are going wrong.

YOU need to do the experiments which I have. Run soil pH tests using various pH levels of water used for a drench.

95% of the time grower issues have nothing to do with pH, it's some other cultural issue. Some of you guys choose to take the easy way out and put the blame for your failures/shortcomings on such a target. In this case it's pH. Sorry, but there's alot more to growing pot than worrying about pH, it's all about achieving a balance of all factors. If you're a soil grower, anything within the pH window of 5.8 - 7.8 is fine, which is where all quality commercial potting soils land.

UB

 

[doniawon]

cause of wavy leaves? imo, lockout or ph problem.. usually the ph is the predecessor

effect? ultimately less yeild..

just my experience.. if i see the leaves wavy and everything else is okay, it usually rights itself if i adjust the ph and ppm's.. if i leave it the way it is, then a day or so later ill get rusty spots, or yellowing, curling etc..

soil buffers better and can tolerate higher swings.. hydroponics drifts slightly but likes to be between 5.8 7.0

 

[Uncle Ben]

cause of wavy leaves? imo, lockout or ph problem.. usually the ph is the predecessor

effect? ultimately less yeild..

just my experience.. if i see the leaves wavy and everything else is okay, it usually rights itself if i adjust the ph and ppm's.. if i leave it the way it is, then a day or so later ill get rusty spots, or yellowing, curling etc..

Rusty spots, yellowing, curling is the result of too much salts at the root zone. This stress symptom is the precursor to leaf necrosis (leaf drop). Has nothing to do with pH.

 

[doniawon]

ph causes lockouts.. when you have no ph issues they can handle more salts..

everything has to work in balance to get optimum growth right?

 

[Uncle Ben]

ph causes lockouts.. when you have no ph issues they can handle more salts..

everything has to work in balance to get optimum growth right?

Sugar causes cavities.

 

[doniawon]

and i got a mouthfull

 

[Uncle Ben]

and i got a mouthfull

Nothing mah dremel and pH adusted water can't cure.

 

[luckydog82]

Uncle ben love your work and your sauces rock. i sense you know your shit.could you tell me why my plants leaves look like this(200w CLF) thanks in advance