Lollipopping

[southern homegrower]

It is critical to know the plant's growth traits before doing something like this. I have grown strains where the top cola will explode when the bottom branches are removed. I've also grown strains that require you to preserve as many budsites as you can through flower. These are the small yielders like Bubba Kush that won't form colas. Instead you get a golf ball size nug at each budsite. Lollipopping this strain would destroy the yield. So I strongly recommend growing out the strain normally to find out what it does before doing any extreme pruning. The exception is if you have an overcrowding situation. If you are so tight on space that an entire lower branch is 100% shaded then it is best to lose it.

nice advice rep for that

 

[Uncle Ben]

I am always open to new ideas, opinions, and information. Can you explain what makes you feel this way? What is it that makes you feel that this method is a bad move?

Thanks bro!

It's called botany, like I said. With every new crop of newbies comes this issue.

As posted at CW->

>Is it a good idea to remove fan leaves that block light to the lower branches or will this take energy away from the flowering?
>

Uncle Ben:
Rottytown and Joey gave a solid explanation that is botanically based. Leaves are the lifeblood of the plant... with a caveat - they have to be functional and productive. If those leaves are healthy and green and receiving good decent light, "leave" 'em alone. If they are yellow or prone to fungus attack, they can be safely removed without detriment to the plant's health as they are contributing little if any value regarding food production - and this is The Key. If they are quite low on the plant and not receiving much light, then mother nature has a way of first taking the goodies from the leaf and it's petiole (removing stored food reserves/metabolites) and dropping the leaves anyway - moot point, eh?

>Even though I've tied the branches down horizontally, many branches are now shaded by large fan leaves.
>

Don't worry about shading branches, worry about shading leaves. Lower branches will always be shaded if your main light source is overhead. Add side lighting or use highly efficient side reflecting panels to alleviate this situation to a degree.

BTW, notice how large fan leaves are? Ever wondered why? It's because they are the most efficient food producing unit for the plant. It's your call (while understanding their function) regarding what to do with them at any given point in time.

>The lights have been on 12/12 for about 3 weeks and the plants are flowering if this helps.
>

I grow the most amount of foliage going into 12/12 as possible. While folks are doing the 15-30-15 thingie, I'm providing plenty of N to support foliage production. In general, lot's of foliage=lot's of flowers. Once sexed and the stretch is over, then you need to back off the N and increase the P and K with a blend like Peter's Blossom Booster, an excellent blend from an old pro who I hit on once in a while. Call Jack up, he's a great resource - http://www.jrpeters.com/moreblooms.html

Bottom line? It is your call to determine what is most important to the plant during flowering - large, efficient fan leaves or small, ineffective bud leaves. Choose carefully regarding targeting fan leaves for removal or tucking them away, as their exposure to quality light is The Key.

Good luck,
Uncle Ben

As posted at cann.com->

Thunderbunny:

In his book "marijuana botany" Robert Connell Clarke states that:

Leafing is one of the most misunderstood techniques of drug cannabis cultivation.

He states that there are 3 common beliefs:

1.) large shade leaves draw energy from the flowering plant and by removing the large fan leaves surplus energy will be available and larger floral clusters will be formed,

2.) Some feel that the inhibitors of flowering , synthesized in the fan leaves during the long noninductive days of summer, may be stored in the older leaves that were formed during the noninductive photoperiod. Possibly, if these inhibitor-laden leaves are removed, the plant will proceed to flower more quickly when the shorter days of fall trigger flowering

3.)Large fan leaves shade the inner portions of the plant, and small, atrophied, interior floral clusters may begin to develop if they receive more light.

Few, if any, of the theories behind leafing have any validity.

The large fan leaves have a definite function in the growth and development of cannabis. Large leaves serve as photosynthetic factories for the production of sugars and other necessary growth substances. They do create shade, but at the same time thay are collecting valuable solar energy and producing foods that will be used during the floral development of the plant. Premature removal of the fan leaves may cause stunting because the potential for photosynthesis is reduced.

Most cannabis plants begin to lose their larger leaves when they enter the flowering stage and this trend continues on until senescence (death of the plant) He also states that removing large amounts of fan leaves will also interfere with the metabolic balance of the plant. Leaf removal may also cause SEX REVERSAL resulting from a metabolic imbalance

He goes on to say that cannabis grows largest when provided with plentiful nutrients, sunlight, and water, and left alone to grow and mature naturally. It must be remembered that any alteration of the natural life cycle of cannabis will affect productivity.

This book has served me very well in my 12+ years of growing--I would have to side with RC on this one--those sunleaves are there for a reason--they dont grow just for show--leave them on there and let that plant grow naturally

Good Luck,
Thunderbunny

 

[Leftyy2k4]

It's called botany, like I said. With every new crop of newbies comes this issue.

As posted at CW->

>Is it a good idea to remove fan leaves that block light to the lower branches or will this take energy away from the flowering?
>

Uncle Ben:
Rottytown and Joey gave a solid explanation that is botanically based. Leaves are the lifeblood of the plant... with a caveat - they have to be functional and productive. If those leaves are healthy and green and receiving good decent light, "leave" 'em alone. If they are yellow or prone to fungus attack, they can be safely removed without detriment to the plant's health as they are contributing little if any value regarding food production - and this is The Key. If they are quite low on the plant and not receiving much light, then mother nature has a way of first taking the goodies from the leaf and it's petiole (removing stored food reserves/metabolites) and dropping the leaves anyway - moot point, eh?

>Even though I've tied the branches down horizontally, many branches are now shaded by large fan leaves.
>

Don't worry about shading branches, worry about shading leaves. Lower branches will always be shaded if your main light source is overhead. Add side lighting or use highly efficient side reflecting panels to alleviate this situation to a degree.

BTW, notice how large fan leaves are? Ever wondered why? It's because they are the most efficient food producing unit for the plant. It's your call (while understanding their function) regarding what to do with them at any given point in time.

>The lights have been on 12/12 for about 3 weeks and the plants are flowering if this helps.
>

I grow the most amount of foliage going into 12/12 as possible. While folks are doing the 15-30-15 thingie, I'm providing plenty of N to support foliage production. In general, lot's of foliage=lot's of flowers. Once sexed and the stretch is over, then you need to back off the N and increase the P and K with a blend like Peter's Blossom Booster, an excellent blend from an old pro who I hit on once in a while. Call Jack up, he's a great resource - http://www.jrpeters.com/moreblooms.html

Bottom line? It is your call to determine what is most important to the plant during flowering - large, efficient fan leaves or small, ineffective bud leaves. Choose carefully regarding targeting fan leaves for removal or tucking them away, as their exposure to quality light is The Key.

Good luck,
Uncle Ben

As posted at cann.com->

Thunderbunny:

In his book "marijuana botany" Robert Connell Clarke states that:

Leafing is one of the most misunderstood techniques of drug cannabis cultivation.

He states that there are 3 common beliefs:

1.) large shade leaves draw energy from the flowering plant and by removing the large fan leaves surplus energy will be available and larger floral clusters will be formed,

2.) Some feel that the inhibitors of flowering , synthesized in the fan leaves during the long noninductive days of summer, may be stored in the older leaves that were formed during the noninductive photoperiod. Possibly, if these inhibitor-laden leaves are removed, the plant will proceed to flower more quickly when the shorter days of fall trigger flowering

3.)Large fan leaves shade the inner portions of the plant, and small, atrophied, interior floral clusters may begin to develop if they receive more light.

Few, if any, of the theories behind leafing have any validity.

The large fan leaves have a definite function in the growth and development of cannabis. Large leaves serve as photosynthetic factories for the production of sugars and other necessary growth substances. They do create shade, but at the same time thay are collecting valuable solar energy and producing foods that will be used during the floral development of the plant. Premature removal of the fan leaves may cause stunting because the potential for photosynthesis is reduced.

Most cannabis plants begin to lose their larger leaves when they enter the flowering stage and this trend continues on until senescence (death of the plant) He also states that removing large amounts of fan leaves will also interfere with the metabolic balance of the plant. Leaf removal may also cause SEX REVERSAL resulting from a metabolic imbalance

He goes on to say that cannabis grows largest when provided with plentiful nutrients, sunlight, and water, and left alone to grow and mature naturally. It must be remembered that any alteration of the natural life cycle of cannabis will affect productivity.

This book has served me very well in my 12+ years of growing--I would have to side with RC on this one--those sunleaves are there for a reason--they dont grow just for show--leave them on there and let that plant grow naturally

Good Luck,
Thunderbunny

Lollipopping does not involve removing fan leaves.

You remove lower bud sites. Forcing the plants energy into the upper bud sites.

Pruning is done to many plants to form bigger flowers. This is what lollipopping is. Forcing the plant to focus its energy into the main cola instead of small side buds.

Not removing fan leaves. One should never remove fan leaves.

 

[greenearth5]

I am an autoflowering guy and I havent heard any infor on lollipoping autos.... when should a person lollipop? during the late veg or early flower?

Lollipopping does not involve removing fan leaves.

You remove lower bud sites. Forcing the plants energy into the upper bud sites.

Pruning is done to many plants to form bigger flowers. This is what lollipopping is. Forcing the plant to focus its energy into the main cola instead of small side buds.

Not removing fan leaves. One should never remove fan leaves.

 

[Fred Flintstoner]

Lollipopping does not involve removing fan leaves.

You remove lower bud sites. Forcing the plants energy into the upper bud sites.

Pruning is done to many plants to form bigger flowers. This is what lollipopping is. Forcing the plant to focus its energy into the main cola instead of small side buds.

Not removing fan leaves. One should never remove fan leaves.

Have to agree here too, I do not remove fan leaves unless they have yellowed off on their own. I just remove the lower main branches that are housing buds that never end up growing big.

They are also good enough to clone with if they are nice and healthy and you are doing this prior to forcing them to flower

 

[Fred Flintstoner]

hi guys, why not try ultra skunk, no need to lollipop cause it grows mainly 1 cola

nice pic

Would this also apply to Lowryder strains? I havent seen them grow so not sure if they are just low, or also only produce one main stout cola.

 

[greenearth5]

I got some autos going and one of them has a mega 9in cola with 4 smaller side branches that are developing main colas as well (3 in long ones) ... my other plant i lollipoped because i was running out of bud and there was a quarter worth of bud on the side branches.... my other plant is just short and bushy and porbably will yield an oz or close to it

EDIT: here are some pictures

 

[del66666]

hey fred, why auto? how tall do your autos grow, top of pot to top of plant?

 

[greenearth5]

all 3 of my autos are between 16-20 inches tall.. i like the short ones becuase i can harvest every other month and they are easier to conceal

 

[del66666]

just checked, my ultra skunk are 18 and 22 inches from top of pot, cant you just lst or pick a more indica strain? are autos as potent?

 

[greenearth5]

I dont know to much about autos... Alls i know is that i half to have some short plants and i must harvest every 2 months... autos are the only ones that i know of that can accomplish both of my requirements

 

[Uncle Ben]

Lollipopping does not involve removing fan leaves.

You remove lower bud sites. Forcing the plants energy into the upper bud sites.

Not sure what this "energy" is you speak of.

Pruning is done to many plants to form bigger flowers. This is what lollipopping is. Forcing the plant to focus its energy into the main cola instead of small side buds.

You leave carbo producing plant material intact, period. Now, if you want more out of a plant's lower levels, then you do what I do, a double harvest, by first taking out the bulked up colas and placing the plant back under the lights to bulk up the lower wispy buds, which were the last to form and will be the last to bulk up. Of course you have to have retained fan leaves to do this which most fail to do.

See my avatar. That Posi Jack Herer had very large rock solid colas with heavy buds at the bottom witness the white patch that the camera's flash highlighted.

I'm sure someone will come up with another wonderful technique, give it some cute lil name, and noobs will be discussing the romance and mystique of this new and awesome technique until there is no tomorrow.

UB

 

[del66666]

ah yeah i forgot they are done in 8-9 weeks arent they, shame you cant sort an extra veg room,

 

[Fred Flintstoner]

Not sure what this "energy" is you speak of.

You leave carbo producing plant material intact, period. Now, if you want more out of a plant's lower levels, then you do what I do, a double harvest, by first taking out the bulked up colas and placing the plant back under the lights to bulk up the lower wispy buds, which were the last to form and will be the last to bulk up. Of course you have to have retained fan leaves to do this which most fail to do.

See my avatar. That Posi Jack Herer had very large rock solid colas with heavy buds at the bottom witness the white patch that the camera's flash highlighted.

I'm sure someone will come up with another wonderful technique, give it some cute lil name, and noobs will be discussing the romance and mystique of this new and awesome technique until there is no tomorrow.

UB

The name DOES make the nugs sound tastier I guess?

 

[Uncle Ben]

The name DOES make the nugs sound tastier I guess?

....or the crowd younger. Lollipop, sucker - choose your news.

 

[Old Fat Dude]

Thanks Uncle Ben ....


"a double harvest, by first taking out the bulked up colas and placing the plant back under the lights to bulk up the lower wispy buds, which were the last to form and will be the last to bulk up. Of course you have to have retained fan leaves to do this which most fail to do."

Would you please discuss double harvest more or a link to where you have explained it before ...

your advise on lighting times ,just keep 12/12 going ?

Keep same nute concentration ...

or re veg for a little while ?

and would you comment on this thread on Harvest and extended dark period ....

https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/225463-dark-period-before-harvest-5.html

 

[greenearth5]

also.. If i grow in soil and i half to flush for 2 weeks then do i need to reintroduce nutes for a few weeks then flush again??? what about double harvesting auto flowering plants?

 

[Uncle Ben]

Thanks Uncle Ben ....


"a double harvest, by first taking out the bulked up colas and placing the plant back under the lights to bulk up the lower wispy buds, which were the last to form and will be the last to bulk up. Of course you have to have retained fan leaves to do this which most fail to do."

Would you please discuss double harvest more or a link to where you have explained it before ...

your advise on lighting times ,just keep 12/12 going ?

Keep same nute concentration ...

or re veg for a little while ?

and would you comment on this thread on Harvest and extended dark period ....

https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/225463-dark-period-before-harvest-5.html

Well, I don't follow forum paradigms. I don't see any value in them and prefer to do botany as opposed to gimmicks and trends. For example, I don't flush, I keep leaves green and healthy until my first harvest cause deys what makes da bud, git it? I provide balanced NPK foods until the end even if it means a bump up in N in order to retain healthy leaves as long as possible. If The Herd Says means more to you, then you do what you have to do.

I assume you've harvested a plant before and can easily tell where the point is on the plant that the colas go from a stocky material to wispy buds. Cut out the bulked up colas to cure, and put the plant back under the lights to bulk up the lower buds with the same ole 12/12 drill. It aint rocket science.

Makes a big difference in overall yield.

UB

 

[del66666]

well said uncle ben im with you on a little nute til the end.

 

[Old Fat Dude]

Thanks Uncle Ben , I'll git it right sooner or later , Heck it's just a weed !!!