stalebiscuit
Well-Known Member
so you got the romanian tt33? nice
let me know how it shoots please, send me a PM with a full range report and how you feel about it
i have fired the cz52 and its a great gun, havent had a chance to fire the tokorov
Liberal Media - Fort Hood Spin
- Thread starter RickWhite
- Start date
let me know how it shoots please, send me a PM with a full range report and how you feel about it
i have fired the cz52 and its a great gun, havent had a chance to fire the tokorov
P
PadawanBater
Guest
Haul me to Heaven
New Member
I agree with Green Cross but must add- only Wahabist Islam adherents need be removed. PadawanaBarter - what do you think is BS about Green Cross's opinion???
P
PadawanBater
Guest
What's wrong with that? Seriously?
Here, howbout this, maybe it'll put it into perspective for you Christian guys...
All Christian believing individuals should be immediately removed from high level positions including military service, before they kill again.
Howbout that, you guys cool with that?
jeff f
New Member
All Christian believing individuals should be immediately removed from high level positions including military service, before they kill again.
Howbout that, you guys cool with that?
are there christian churches preaching from the pulpit that christians should kill everyone who isnt christian? if so, possibly.
i dont agree that we should remove muslims from power. however, if they are in sensative positions (ie the military, police, work at a power plant) and they are known to say shit like, "cant wait to join the martyrs" then yes, they should be removed til we figure out if they are jihadists. nothing wrong with that in my opinion. after all the number 1 purpose of the govt is to protect its citizens.
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PadawanBater
Guest
I don't think the doctrine is what is important in this case. There have been Muslim people and Christian people who have committed terrorism. The question you have to ask yourself is if the religion is to blame. If you answer yes for Islam and Muslims, you must answer yes for Christianity and Christians too. No would be hypocritical in my opinion. Simply because the fanatical sect of Muslims believe (and the mainstream media supports) in killing or converting all non Muslims? Is it then fair to say the same thing about Christianity, pertaining to the fanatical sect of Christianity in the US? People like the Westboro Baptist church?
They don't kill people sure, but if that's the argument you're going to use, please consider education. Warping a childs mind might not be such a big deal to fundamentalists, but it's equally as detremental to society in my opinion.
Also consider that most Muslims, as most Christians, do not kill people, and are peaceful, for the most part. It's unfair to paint any group of people any such way, be it positive or negative, based on the worst of the bunch.
You have a point, profiliing is so 90's.
HERE'S A TEST
1. 1968 Bobby Kennedy was shot and killed by:
a. Superman
b. Jay Leno
c. Harry Potter
d. A Muslim male extremist between the ages of 17 and 40
2. In 1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were kidnapped and
massacred by :
a. Olga Corbett
b. Sitting Bull
c. Arnold Schwarzenegger
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
3. In 1979, the US embassy in Iran was ta ken over by:
a. Lost Norwegians
b. Elvis
c. A tour bus full of 80-year-old women
d . Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
4. During the 1980's a number of Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon
by:
a. John Dillinger
b. The King of Sweden
c. The Boy Scouts
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
5. In 1983, the US Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by:
a. A pizza delivery boy
b. Pee Wee Herman
c. Geraldo Rivera
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
6. In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked and a 70 year
old,
American passenger was murdered and thrown overboard in his
wheelchair by:
a. The Smurfs
b. Davey Jones
c. The Little Mermaid
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
7. In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens , and a US Navy
diver trying
to rescue passengers was murdered by:
a. Captain Kidd
b.. Charles Lindberg
c. Mother Teresa
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
8. In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by:
a. Scooby Doo
b. The Tooth Fairy
c. The Sundance Kid
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
9. In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed the first time by:
a. Richard Simmons
b Grandma Moses
c. Michael Jordan
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
10. In 1998, the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by:
a.. Mr. Rogers
b. Hillary Clinton, to distract attention from wild Bill's women problems.
c. The World Wrestling Federation
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
11. On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked; two were used as
missiles to
take out the World Trade Centers and of the remaining two, one
crashed into the US
Pentagon and the other was diverted and crashed by the passengers.
Thousands of people were killed by:
a. Bugs Bunny, Wiley E. Coyote, Daffy Duck and Elmer Fudd
b. The Supreme Court of Florida
c. Mr Bean
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
12. In 2002 the United States fought a war in Afghanistan against:
a. Enron
b. The Lutheran Church
c. The NFL
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
13. In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and beheaded on camera by:
a. Bonnie and Clyde
b. Captain Kangaroo
c. Billy Graham
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
I really don't see a pattern here to justify profiling, do you?
Take your head out of the sand before they bury the rest of you with it.
HERE'S A TEST
1. 1968 Bobby Kennedy was shot and killed by:
a. Superman
b. Jay Leno
c. Harry Potter
d. A Muslim male extremist between the ages of 17 and 40
2. In 1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were kidnapped and
massacred by :
a. Olga Corbett
b. Sitting Bull
c. Arnold Schwarzenegger
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
3. In 1979, the US embassy in Iran was ta ken over by:
a. Lost Norwegians
b. Elvis
c. A tour bus full of 80-year-old women
d . Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
4. During the 1980's a number of Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon
by:
a. John Dillinger
b. The King of Sweden
c. The Boy Scouts
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
5. In 1983, the US Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by:
a. A pizza delivery boy
b. Pee Wee Herman
c. Geraldo Rivera
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
6. In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked and a 70 year
old,
American passenger was murdered and thrown overboard in his
wheelchair by:
a. The Smurfs
b. Davey Jones
c. The Little Mermaid
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
7. In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens , and a US Navy
diver trying
to rescue passengers was murdered by:
a. Captain Kidd
b.. Charles Lindberg
c. Mother Teresa
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
8. In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by:
a. Scooby Doo
b. The Tooth Fairy
c. The Sundance Kid
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
9. In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed the first time by:
a. Richard Simmons
b Grandma Moses
c. Michael Jordan
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
10. In 1998, the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by:
a.. Mr. Rogers
b. Hillary Clinton, to distract attention from wild Bill's women problems.
c. The World Wrestling Federation
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
11. On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked; two were used as
missiles to
take out the World Trade Centers and of the remaining two, one
crashed into the US
Pentagon and the other was diverted and crashed by the passengers.
Thousands of people were killed by:
a. Bugs Bunny, Wiley E. Coyote, Daffy Duck and Elmer Fudd
b. The Supreme Court of Florida
c. Mr Bean
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
12. In 2002 the United States fought a war in Afghanistan against:
a. Enron
b. The Lutheran Church
c. The NFL
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
13. In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and beheaded on camera by:
a. Bonnie and Clyde
b. Captain Kangaroo
c. Billy Graham
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
I really don't see a pattern here to justify profiling, do you?
Take your head out of the sand before they bury the rest of you with it.
P
PadawanBater
Guest
OK, howbout this test...
1. Who killed 168 civilians, including 19 children, in 1995 at the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City?
a. Elmer Fudd
b. Robin Hood
c. Ronald McDonald
d. a Christian extremist
2. Who killed Dr. George Tiller on May 31, 2009 in Witchita Kansas?
a. Scooby Doo
b. Darth Vader
c. Jon Stewart
d. a Christian extremist
3. Who killed between 2 and 5 million people during the Crusades?
a. Jon Bon Jovi
b. Peter Pan
c. Porkey Pig
d. a (group of) Christian extremist(s)
4. Who killed between 50 and 100 thousand "witches" during the 15th-17th century?
a. Obama
b. Marry Poppins
c. Dr. Sues
d. a (group of) Christian extremist(s)
etc... hopefully you get the point.
Does this data give us the right to justify specifically selecting Christians because they hold certain beliefs?
And again, do these people do these things because of their religion, or because they're crazy, and they'd do them anyway?
I am of the opinion that yes, their religion definitly influences their decisions, absolutely. But you are saying that it only happens with Islam and Muslims, and not Christians. Well, here's four examples, just like you gave me, of Christian extremist terrorism, right before your eyes.
Christianity is just as dangerous to society as Islam is, it's just better at disguising it, then again, Christians had six centuries of a head start on the Muslims..
1. Who killed 168 civilians, including 19 children, in 1995 at the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City?
a. Elmer Fudd
b. Robin Hood
c. Ronald McDonald
d. a Christian extremist
2. Who killed Dr. George Tiller on May 31, 2009 in Witchita Kansas?
a. Scooby Doo
b. Darth Vader
c. Jon Stewart
d. a Christian extremist
3. Who killed between 2 and 5 million people during the Crusades?
a. Jon Bon Jovi
b. Peter Pan
c. Porkey Pig
d. a (group of) Christian extremist(s)
4. Who killed between 50 and 100 thousand "witches" during the 15th-17th century?
a. Obama
b. Marry Poppins
c. Dr. Sues
d. a (group of) Christian extremist(s)
etc... hopefully you get the point.
Does this data give us the right to justify specifically selecting Christians because they hold certain beliefs?
And again, do these people do these things because of their religion, or because they're crazy, and they'd do them anyway?
I am of the opinion that yes, their religion definitly influences their decisions, absolutely. But you are saying that it only happens with Islam and Muslims, and not Christians. Well, here's four examples, just like you gave me, of Christian extremist terrorism, right before your eyes.
Christianity is just as dangerous to society as Islam is, it's just better at disguising it, then again, Christians had six centuries of a head start on the Muslims..
Johnnyorganic
Well-Known Member
Paddy, you know I like and respect you. Even so, we don't agree on everything. I think that is a good thing.
GreatWhiteNorth confined his examples to the previous 41 years. And he left out the October 2000 bombing of the U.S.S. Cole in Yemen. Seventeen dead American servicemen. We could trace the history of Islam back to the Crusades and find a helluva lot more killing in their column.
As such, I think we could eliminate questions 3 and 4 due to relevance. Although both are true, it is also true that Western Civilization was transformed as a result of the Protestant Reformation. Islam has experienced no Reformation and it appears they do not intend to do so.
Look at the current issue being pressed by Islamic Nations across the globe. A proposal to the United Nations. A global ban on blasphemy.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iX2fakx508zGm4ff4XnCXYK260SwD9C2SQ401
I think you agree with me that one religion dictating to the rest of the world what is acceptable speech is indefensible. And this is what scares me about Islam. I believe they are perfectly willing to go to war, jihad, to defend their faith against any perceived slight.
At least most Christians are on board with the concept of free speech. Nor would they take to the streets demanding the head of a schoolteacher for allowing her students to name a teddy bear 'Jesus.'
Haul me to Heaven
New Member
Here is what Khomeini taught when alive and the references he quoted. (He's speaking as a recognized Islamic scholar)
“Islam makes it incumbent on all adult males, provided they are not disabled or incapacitated, to prepare themselves for the conquest of countries so that the writ of Islam is obeyed in every country in the world....But those who study Islamic Holy War will understand why Islam wants to conquer the whole world”
Khomeini also rebuked the Islam-is-a-religion-of-peace concept by saying:
“Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those [who say this] are witless. Islam says: Kill all the unbelievers just as they would kill you all! Does this mean that Muslims should sit back until they are devoured by [the unbelievers]? Islam says: Kill them, put them to the sword and scatter [their armies]….Islam says: Whatever good there is exists thanks to the sword and in the shadow of the sword! People cannot be made obedient except with the sword! The sword is the key to Paradise, which can be opened only for the Holy Warriors! There are hundreds of other [Qur’anic] psalms and Hadiths [sayings of the Prophet] urging Muslims to value war and to fight. Does all this mean that Islam is a religion that prevents men from waging war? I spit upon those foolish souls who make such a claim.”
“Islam makes it incumbent on all adult males, provided they are not disabled or incapacitated, to prepare themselves for the conquest of countries so that the writ of Islam is obeyed in every country in the world....But those who study Islamic Holy War will understand why Islam wants to conquer the whole world”
Khomeini also rebuked the Islam-is-a-religion-of-peace concept by saying:
“Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those [who say this] are witless. Islam says: Kill all the unbelievers just as they would kill you all! Does this mean that Muslims should sit back until they are devoured by [the unbelievers]? Islam says: Kill them, put them to the sword and scatter [their armies]….Islam says: Whatever good there is exists thanks to the sword and in the shadow of the sword! People cannot be made obedient except with the sword! The sword is the key to Paradise, which can be opened only for the Holy Warriors! There are hundreds of other [Qur’anic] psalms and Hadiths [sayings of the Prophet] urging Muslims to value war and to fight. Does all this mean that Islam is a religion that prevents men from waging war? I spit upon those foolish souls who make such a claim.”
jeff f
New Member
so then we should appoint who to determine if the child is in danger? oh yes, child protective services. we already have this. what we dont have, and you have not furthured your argument, is a group of people actively preaching and actively killing people who arent like themselves. its an organized religion that actively seeks to kill the unclean. there is no pattern of the church you mention harming anyone. none of their members is accused of any attrocity as far as i am aware of.
big diffference than someone who snaps and walks into an office building and starts shooting.
jeff f
New Member
thats your argument? shit that happened centuries ago? seriously, that is really your argument? tim mcveigh was sentenced to death and killed. dont kow about the other guy but i KNOW WITHOUT A SHADOW OF A DOUBT that the christian church didnt come out and say, "yea for you guys, way to keep killing them, get a couple more yea yea yea". you cant say the same for muslims.
your argument is very very week at this particular point. care to try again?
P
PadawanBater
Guest
Your points are valid JO, like usual, and I also consider the time gap when I bring up things like the Crusades or the Witch burnings. It just bothers me how people like Jeff here brush it off as "oh that was centuries ago.." - because that doesn't matter to me. The point being made is still equally as valid in my eyes. These people today (Jeff, HMTH) are sitting here saying that Christianity is not dangerous, its' totally peaceful, when that is quite clearly not the case at all. It's like they're condemning Islam and everything Islam teaches (even though, as I pointed out before, MOST Muslims do not kill people, nor do they support the fanatical sect of Muslims who do kill people). The percentage of Muslims who are fanatical extremists is tiny in comparison to the rest of them, exactly the same thing with Christianity or any religion.
Just to be clear, I'm not advocating for Islam at all, I think Islam and Christianity are both dangerous. The levels of danger both of those religions provide is debatable, and for another thread.
My point is that the things you guys are proposing are outrageous, and if it was turned around on any of the Christians, you would start a revolution. The ends do not justify the means. This is just like when they interned the Japanese Americans during WW2 because they thought they were a threat. No different at all.
Just to be clear, I'm not advocating for Islam at all, I think Islam and Christianity are both dangerous. The levels of danger both of those religions provide is debatable, and for another thread.
My point is that the things you guys are proposing are outrageous, and if it was turned around on any of the Christians, you would start a revolution. The ends do not justify the means. This is just like when they interned the Japanese Americans during WW2 because they thought they were a threat. No different at all.
jeff f
New Member
once again, christians are dangerous? where? today, now, where?
this is nothing like the japanese in ww2. the japs were rounded up and thrown in jail by....ummm...lets see...oh yes, a liberal. not a christian conservative. the japs in the country werent trying to undermine it. muslims are. not all muslims but a certain, measurable, identifiable, group. we should be targeting them (the identifiable group) and dealing with it. if they are american, try them in american courts. if they are from another country, kill them before they kill more of us. for gods sake, we cant yell fire in a movie house but these guys can preach to kill us? that doesnt even make sense.
P
PadawanBater
Guest
I'm not sure where you get the idea that in order for something to be considered dangerous, it has to cause physical harm to something else. Would you not agree that the teachings of say Charles Manson would be pretty dangerous? Wolves are dangerous, right? Things are dangerous because they have the potential to cause harm. That is exactly the reason Christianity, and all organized religion, is dangerous. Though there are plenty of other examples, like I listed in the previous post, where individuals or groups of Christian fanatics actively engage in what would be considered terrorism. The Klan springs to mind immediately (which is still in existence today).
We imprisoned the Japanese Americans during WW2 because we perceived them as a threat to national security, exactly as you perceive Muslim Americans as a threat to our national security. How do you suggest we "measure or identify" the fanatical Muslims living in America? When you come up with an idea, I'd love to hear it! You totally missed the point with the comparison. It was wrong then, just as it would be wrong now. Like I have to keep repeating to you, no matter how many crazy things a certain select few of a certain group does, it doesn't give you the right, or justify, punishing the rest, and it never will. If you disagree, then you must accept the position that it is OK to do the exact same thing with the majority of Christians (from what I gathered, you most likely being one yourself, which makes the admition that much more difficult, hence your delema
) based on the acts of a select few fanaticals.I don't expect you to really relate to any of this Jeff. You believe Christianity is totally peaceful (it's not) while condemning Islam for the exact same things your own doctrine is guilty of. Hypocricy at it's best.
If you're not a Christian, I have no problem apologizing for that, so correct me if I'm wrong.
Haul me to Heaven
New Member
Potential to cause harm.... let me see....
Voting for Obama or any and all the other destroyers of the Constitution and the PRNICIPLES upon which this nation was founded.
In that light- how many teachers and professors would be rounded up?
Are we to kill them?
Or deal with them according to the law?
Religous law?
Or the Laws of Natures God?
Voting for Obama or any and all the other destroyers of the Constitution and the PRNICIPLES upon which this nation was founded.
In that light- how many teachers and professors would be rounded up?
Are we to kill them?
Or deal with them according to the law?
Religous law?
Or the Laws of Natures God?
K
Keenly
Guest
once again
stupid blanket statement that you got from your television
a man snapped and killed people
leave religion out of it, leave extremism out of it
the man freaked out, it could have been ANYONE
dont let the bullshit media melt your brain
medicineman
New Member
Actually, this "Man" had quite a few interactions with Jihadists. The truth will come out. He is definently the definition of a terrorist. He is definently a muslim. He has definently gone to the mosque where a Jihadist Imam held court, He had communications with suspected al qaeda members. WTF would you call him? I call him a muslim terrorist. My opinion. You can't just leave all these connections out of it. They should have stopped him long ago, but Political correctness kept them from it. Sometimes it may be better to be a little incorrect, And make apologies if wrong. What say you?
K
Keenly
Guest
i say show me the audio of the conversations he had, or show me a picture of him talking to a known al CIAda member
where is the PROOF of ANY of this? Some guy sitting behind a desk on TV doesnt count as proof either, i mean hard evidence
where is the PROOF of ANY of this? Some guy sitting behind a desk on TV doesnt count as proof either, i mean hard evidence