I grow in E&F tables with hydroton as my medium of choice.
Lollipopping
- Thread starter Fred Flintstoner
- Start date
riddleme
Well-Known Member
Thank you!
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
Since light received is the bottom line, this new post of mine is relevant to the discussion. https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/151706-uncle-bens-topping-technique-get-78.html#post3626425
VidiotRayM
Active Member
I'll be 50 this year and have grown most of my adult life. I have never been accused of following any herd..... When I hear something and want to know the truth....I try it out and decide for myself.......
So....I entered the party cup competition and will be doing a 1, 2 and 4 top plant to test it out. I think I already know what the results will be, but we'll know for sure in about 90 days..... they will stay side by side every step of the way.. they are all clones of the same plant, the 2 and 4 top were dead even at topping with the 1 top slightly behind, but not too much so hopefully it won't skew the results.... I don't have a preference or adgenda to promote.......I am doing this because of limits on the # of plants we're allowed here.........single top SOG is too many plants for my client list so I want to see if fewer plants with more spacing will produce equally...although I think I may have to repeat the test using larger pots for the 2 top and 4 top plants as I think root mass could have an effect as well............this test is simply.....under the same conditions, which yields higher? I believe the yield will be quite similar.....1 bud weighing X, two slightly smaller buds weighing X and 4 even smaller buds weighing X.....assuming equal root mass and light distribution. I can't swear to it....hence the test..... I did go through a bug and cloning issue a while ago and so didn't have enough to fill all my spots, so I spaced them evenly and didn't prune like I usually do...........I had a bumper harvest that go round.....but without proper controls, I can't swear it was better........When my problems passed, I went back to my original methods and have had an even bigger crop....but again, without controls.....nothing is clear cut..... I made some lighting changes and other things that could be causing the improvements..............along with reducing the bug problem......
If I were growing in 3 gal pots or outside.....I'm sure I wouldn't trim anything...........but I use 4" RW, packed in pretty tight.......and already prune them back to only a few branches.......... there are more reasons for it than light issues...ie...the humidity levels in the thicket invite bad things to happen......
As far as botanical science.....there is precedent........look into roses and you will find that if you have three buds at the same site, removing the smaller two early on will make the remaining one grow bigger..........notice buds only, not leaves(that's a seperate argument to be tested later).........my neighbors are floored by the huge roses in my garden.......even had to come get a close look as they thought they were fake.........
My opinion is we're comparing apples to oranges..........10 plants in 3 gal pots under one light compared to 64 in 4" cubes under the same light?? Kinda like comparing HIDs to sunlight, isn't it?
And .....why do you have a post on 2 top and 4 top plants if you recommend never pruning????? What's the difference between you having a 4 top plant in 1 ft2 and me having 4 1 top plants in the same space? Seems like a contradiction to me. I'm pretty sure there isn't an mj plant on earth that would only grow 4 branches naturally.......
And now, a little bit of history............the original SOG technique used 100 1 gal pots in a 4x4 space.....each was trained to be a 4 top plant...and the goal was 1/4 oz per top for a total of 100 ozs every two months.............Not sure when the single top came into the mix..........but I'm sure it has to do with spacing....... In the one case earlier in this thread, I couldn't see a reason to go single cola......there weren't any spacing issues, so no reason to do it......
Anyway, rather than argue pointlessly........I will test 1, 2 and 4 tops.......to see which will work best for ME, given my light, my space, my plant, my nutes. etc, etc, etc You are welcome to follow along, but it's only going to show you how it did for me, your results may vary. Even UB says no two gardens are the same so why does one approach have to be right and one wrong in every situation?? I've been through UB's posts and Al B's as well......both are obviously excellent growers with completely different growing techniques............which is better for you is totally up to you. The arguments are never ending....seed or clone, sog, scrog, fim, lst.....organic or hydro......fan leaves or no fan leaves...... flush or don't.... If you haven't tried both, how can you know which is best for you?? Don't blindly follow anyone.........expert or beginner......experiment with a few plants before putting the whole crop at risk.......
Insults aren't needed or helpful.........All the references to botanical science without actually quoting any??? Curious that. Pruning and training plants are common practices, so there's science to support it...as in the rose example earlier.... We're all guilty of taking things as science that, in fact, have never been studied......... The whole fan leaves as sugar factories, for instance.......Has anyone actually seen the science behind it?? I admit I never have....just taken it on supposedly good authority....... Leaving them on is working for me so I haven't tested it in Bloom....but I will..........I do know for fact that removing them during veg will slow plant growth, at least regarding height.........I do it all the time to keep clones below the height I want them at until their space is open in the bloom area............but I don't remove any once they move to bloom....because that's what "they" say...not because I've seen proof......I intend to test it to see if they only contribute to stem length(one side) or also bud size(the other side).... How beneficial would it be if taking off fan leaves for the first 3 weeks of bloom would stop stretch significantly?? Or taking them off later on would make buds bigger, not smaller as popular belief claims..........I have never seen a side by side test...so I will do my own and decide for myself..........
Which brings me another thought........keep an open yet skeptical mind always............pictures can be photoshopped, results can be rigged by those with an adgenda to promote....even if that's just getting their ego stroked for them.........I saw a post on a cfl grow with huge buds in tiny cups, no drainage........I was floored by it until somewhere along the line he slipped up and said something about his flood and drain......that set my bs alarm off......then later he talked about getting a 430 w hps....why would you if you can grow huge buds with a cfl?? So...if I rip one of my finished plants up, pulling the 1" starter cube and a few roots out of the 4", then take a picture and claim I grew it in the 1" cube with a refridgerator light................you see my point........
There's nothing dumb about experimenting.......and there's nothing wrong with sticking to the tried and true....although just because it's been that way forever doesn't make it better or right..............I run into that mentality all the time in construction...."I've been doing it this way for 20 years!!" ......Ok...you use your 32 oz plumb bob in the wind and I'll use my laser..........guess which is faster and more accurate?? Older doesn't mean better, but then again neither does newer.........better means better...period!!
If you're set in your ways, it won't matter the results of my testing.....you'll say I did something to skew the results..........The only way to know is to test it yourself which you aren't gonna do....too many apologies to give if you're wrong, huh? I don't need my ego stroked, don't have a vested interest in any particular method other than the one that works best for me and don't feel the need to beat my chest or have a fan club........simply trying to share info and experiences..... I can't tell you how you should grow, I can only tell you what I do, have done or intend to do.........and I never stop learning and experimenting....without it we'd all still be smoking swag.........
So....I entered the party cup competition and will be doing a 1, 2 and 4 top plant to test it out. I think I already know what the results will be, but we'll know for sure in about 90 days..... they will stay side by side every step of the way.. they are all clones of the same plant, the 2 and 4 top were dead even at topping with the 1 top slightly behind, but not too much so hopefully it won't skew the results.... I don't have a preference or adgenda to promote.......I am doing this because of limits on the # of plants we're allowed here.........single top SOG is too many plants for my client list so I want to see if fewer plants with more spacing will produce equally...although I think I may have to repeat the test using larger pots for the 2 top and 4 top plants as I think root mass could have an effect as well............this test is simply.....under the same conditions, which yields higher? I believe the yield will be quite similar.....1 bud weighing X, two slightly smaller buds weighing X and 4 even smaller buds weighing X.....assuming equal root mass and light distribution. I can't swear to it....hence the test..... I did go through a bug and cloning issue a while ago and so didn't have enough to fill all my spots, so I spaced them evenly and didn't prune like I usually do...........I had a bumper harvest that go round.....but without proper controls, I can't swear it was better........When my problems passed, I went back to my original methods and have had an even bigger crop....but again, without controls.....nothing is clear cut..... I made some lighting changes and other things that could be causing the improvements..............along with reducing the bug problem......
If I were growing in 3 gal pots or outside.....I'm sure I wouldn't trim anything...........but I use 4" RW, packed in pretty tight.......and already prune them back to only a few branches.......... there are more reasons for it than light issues...ie...the humidity levels in the thicket invite bad things to happen......
As far as botanical science.....there is precedent........look into roses and you will find that if you have three buds at the same site, removing the smaller two early on will make the remaining one grow bigger..........notice buds only, not leaves(that's a seperate argument to be tested later).........my neighbors are floored by the huge roses in my garden.......even had to come get a close look as they thought they were fake.........
My opinion is we're comparing apples to oranges..........10 plants in 3 gal pots under one light compared to 64 in 4" cubes under the same light?? Kinda like comparing HIDs to sunlight, isn't it?
And .....why do you have a post on 2 top and 4 top plants if you recommend never pruning????? What's the difference between you having a 4 top plant in 1 ft2 and me having 4 1 top plants in the same space? Seems like a contradiction to me. I'm pretty sure there isn't an mj plant on earth that would only grow 4 branches naturally.......
And now, a little bit of history............the original SOG technique used 100 1 gal pots in a 4x4 space.....each was trained to be a 4 top plant...and the goal was 1/4 oz per top for a total of 100 ozs every two months.............Not sure when the single top came into the mix..........but I'm sure it has to do with spacing....... In the one case earlier in this thread, I couldn't see a reason to go single cola......there weren't any spacing issues, so no reason to do it......
Anyway, rather than argue pointlessly........I will test 1, 2 and 4 tops.......to see which will work best for ME, given my light, my space, my plant, my nutes. etc, etc, etc You are welcome to follow along, but it's only going to show you how it did for me, your results may vary. Even UB says no two gardens are the same so why does one approach have to be right and one wrong in every situation?? I've been through UB's posts and Al B's as well......both are obviously excellent growers with completely different growing techniques............which is better for you is totally up to you. The arguments are never ending....seed or clone, sog, scrog, fim, lst.....organic or hydro......fan leaves or no fan leaves...... flush or don't.... If you haven't tried both, how can you know which is best for you?? Don't blindly follow anyone.........expert or beginner......experiment with a few plants before putting the whole crop at risk.......
Insults aren't needed or helpful.........All the references to botanical science without actually quoting any??? Curious that. Pruning and training plants are common practices, so there's science to support it...as in the rose example earlier.... We're all guilty of taking things as science that, in fact, have never been studied......... The whole fan leaves as sugar factories, for instance.......Has anyone actually seen the science behind it?? I admit I never have....just taken it on supposedly good authority....... Leaving them on is working for me so I haven't tested it in Bloom....but I will..........I do know for fact that removing them during veg will slow plant growth, at least regarding height.........I do it all the time to keep clones below the height I want them at until their space is open in the bloom area............but I don't remove any once they move to bloom....because that's what "they" say...not because I've seen proof......I intend to test it to see if they only contribute to stem length(one side) or also bud size(the other side).... How beneficial would it be if taking off fan leaves for the first 3 weeks of bloom would stop stretch significantly?? Or taking them off later on would make buds bigger, not smaller as popular belief claims..........I have never seen a side by side test...so I will do my own and decide for myself..........
Which brings me another thought........keep an open yet skeptical mind always............pictures can be photoshopped, results can be rigged by those with an adgenda to promote....even if that's just getting their ego stroked for them.........I saw a post on a cfl grow with huge buds in tiny cups, no drainage........I was floored by it until somewhere along the line he slipped up and said something about his flood and drain......that set my bs alarm off......then later he talked about getting a 430 w hps....why would you if you can grow huge buds with a cfl?? So...if I rip one of my finished plants up, pulling the 1" starter cube and a few roots out of the 4", then take a picture and claim I grew it in the 1" cube with a refridgerator light................you see my point........
There's nothing dumb about experimenting.......and there's nothing wrong with sticking to the tried and true....although just because it's been that way forever doesn't make it better or right..............I run into that mentality all the time in construction...."I've been doing it this way for 20 years!!" ......Ok...you use your 32 oz plumb bob in the wind and I'll use my laser..........guess which is faster and more accurate?? Older doesn't mean better, but then again neither does newer.........better means better...period!!
If you're set in your ways, it won't matter the results of my testing.....you'll say I did something to skew the results..........The only way to know is to test it yourself which you aren't gonna do....too many apologies to give if you're wrong, huh? I don't need my ego stroked, don't have a vested interest in any particular method other than the one that works best for me and don't feel the need to beat my chest or have a fan club........simply trying to share info and experiences..... I can't tell you how you should grow, I can only tell you what I do, have done or intend to do.........and I never stop learning and experimenting....without it we'd all still be smoking swag.........
stinkbudd1
Well-Known Member
yeah, i get that a lot ive never been much of a typing pro so i try to get the words to paper fast..PPP
VidiotRayM
Active Member
BTW....the old gram a watt figure is from the Garden Efficiency calculator on the old OG site......You inputted #s for wattages and times in seedling, veg and bloom and got back a # such as .95 that was equated to .95 grams per watt. 1.0 was considered the standard for a decent grower with some pros claiming 1.4 or more........ I am a little curious why you slam this as it is designed to give you a way to check your production.............isn't this how science works?? Have a theory, test it, measure it, find the facts??? Did your #s not add up, so therefore it must be the formula is wrong? I haven't used it or seen the original calculator since OG was shut down............but it was great to be able to measure your improvements when something helped or decrease when something didn't...... It seemed like a fair way to compare to me........any setup could be entered from a single light to a warehouse full......and regardless of what your # was, you knew if you improved or worsened your yield by whatever you did that cycle......... I can see that a noob shouldn't expect to get those results....but even a noob can take advantage of KNOWING what gave them the best results in a measurable, provable manner...... You dialed your setup in to get the best # you could.........might have been even better if they factored in the cost per kilowatt for electricity giving you a price per gram #.......in fact, maybe that's what we should all really be concerned with.......add up all the nutes, power, etc used during the cycle and get a #..........that would really help with the "magic bullet" products........was it really worth $75/gal to get 2 more grams??
If there's a better way to measure production, I haven't seen it...............If it were available to me, I'd still check it once in a while....good info to have when you switch nutes, lights, etc, etc, etc........
If there's a better way to measure production, I haven't seen it...............If it were available to me, I'd still check it once in a while....good info to have when you switch nutes, lights, etc, etc, etc........
Vidiot, great post.
It's a shame that all the typing is going to be wasted because you're about to be flamed and bombarded with the words "botany, paradigm, herd, and gimmicks" (to name a few), and your very legitimate points and questions will be ignored.
As an aside, I went back and read ~15 pages of this thread (from when I wasn't following it because it had turned into a troll flame war against UB), and let me say that I was appalled that such "experienced" growers would flame Joe Camel the way they did - he posted pics of his experiment, and they were summarily dismissed (incorrectly, in my opinion).
I find it ironic that the "herd" in this case are all of the "experienced" growers who take Uncle Ben's word as gospel, for whatever reason (I think it's because they get lost in the misinformation, the dodging of questions, and/or the pics of twenty year old grows, but that's neither here nor there), were actually the ones who were flaming Joe Camel to no end.
For such intelligent growers to not realize that there's going to be a difference in cola size between a five foot bush like UB grows vs. a foot tall lollipopped plant are really missing the forest for the trees.
Also, where are all of them now to answer the perfectly legitimate questions that have been raised? You know who you are - you all were very macho and tough when there were five of you berating Joe Camel, and now you're all gone? Where'd you go? I'm not asking that to be confrontational and get into a pissing contest or a flame war (for which I have neither the time nor the inclination for); I was just wondering if one of you would like to answer any of my questions regarding lollipopping and its pros and cons (which to this point have been evaded).
Finally, to all of those who think that experience is the overriding factor in determining something's (someone's) validity - my dad's been playing golf for twenty years longer then Tiger Woods has been alive; that being said, I'd prefer lessons from Tiger.
I'm just sayin'.
Now flame me if you must.
It's a shame that all the typing is going to be wasted because you're about to be flamed and bombarded with the words "botany, paradigm, herd, and gimmicks" (to name a few), and your very legitimate points and questions will be ignored.
As an aside, I went back and read ~15 pages of this thread (from when I wasn't following it because it had turned into a troll flame war against UB), and let me say that I was appalled that such "experienced" growers would flame Joe Camel the way they did - he posted pics of his experiment, and they were summarily dismissed (incorrectly, in my opinion).
I find it ironic that the "herd" in this case are all of the "experienced" growers who take Uncle Ben's word as gospel, for whatever reason (I think it's because they get lost in the misinformation, the dodging of questions, and/or the pics of twenty year old grows, but that's neither here nor there), were actually the ones who were flaming Joe Camel to no end.
For such intelligent growers to not realize that there's going to be a difference in cola size between a five foot bush like UB grows vs. a foot tall lollipopped plant are really missing the forest for the trees.
Also, where are all of them now to answer the perfectly legitimate questions that have been raised? You know who you are - you all were very macho and tough when there were five of you berating Joe Camel, and now you're all gone? Where'd you go? I'm not asking that to be confrontational and get into a pissing contest or a flame war (for which I have neither the time nor the inclination for); I was just wondering if one of you would like to answer any of my questions regarding lollipopping and its pros and cons (which to this point have been evaded).
Finally, to all of those who think that experience is the overriding factor in determining something's (someone's) validity - my dad's been playing golf for twenty years longer then Tiger Woods has been alive; that being said, I'd prefer lessons from Tiger.
I'm just sayin'.
Now flame me if you must.
VidiotRayM
Active Member
Thanks Bob.... Lucky for me, I don't need their approval of my methods......I'm just fine sitting here stoned all day in my ignorance... I am not here to compete with anyone. I do however compete with myself.......I'm looking to squeeze everything I can out of my setup and that means never being satisfied.....always trying to push it a little bit more......
I give UB credit for being good at what he does.....growing huge plants in soil....awesome!! Also, I dig that he posted a pic of some imperfect plants, showing none of us are all that....... However, his intolerance for another point of view is not commendable. I saw you tried to argue the spacing issue with no effect what so ever and that what he calls crowded isn't even close to what I called crowded....... Nope, I don't have a single bud big enough to hide behind.........but I don't have 5' plants either. Wonder how much stick I'd be buying to get that bud? My avatar is my garden........can you see wall or mylar on the other side? Can you even see rows 3-8? No.....which tells me I'm using every bit of light I have..........also notice that immediately below the canopy, it's dark as hell...... As I said...apples to oranges... Really, I'm just taking the same plant he has, rooting every branch so it gets it's full share of light..but he'll never see it that way because it doesn't fit his narrow view of things.......
The GE calculator was an excellent tool........and slammed even then by the same folks. Generally soil growers and/or Sativa growers couldn't meet the #....so it had to be the calculators fault........ So basically we proved hydro sog with indica clones was the most efficient growing method strictly in terms of production..........but since they couldn't compete the science is bunk......*sigh*.....
If you're growing for your own use.....it really doesn't matter. As long as you are happy with the results and it cost you less than you'd pay to buy it......it's all good. If you're a Sativa fan.....then it's likely worth the extra cost per gram to you....or if you just like variety, same thing......we know mixed batches aren't as even as single strain for the most part. If you're growing for a dispensary, then it's a different matter...........it is a business....cost per gram would be the perfect way to truly measure cost vs profit. So if it costs me (arbitrary #) $3/gram and you $5/gram to produce...but both sell for $10/gram at the dispensary......that's a huge difference.
For the record I am a caregiver.......I've had clients go to the dispensaries and they always come back disappointed in the high prices for lower quality.......... Their opinions are the ones that matter to me, because without them, I'd have to get a real job.....lol I ordered some new seeds to offer a little variety.......but if the cost to produce is higher, I have to charge more........ simple business... I added some lights so I can keep my setup going as it is....and try the new recruits on a limited basis.......If all goes well, I'll change to running different trays with different strains.......if not, I'll get a few more clients and fill the new space with what I know works best....... I'll also try my hand at some limited breeding, just for fun..........
Anyway, watch my party cup entry for a 1,2 and 4 top comparasion...........Just something I've been curious about but hadn't messed with. I fell into the "if it ain't broke....." trap and got lazy because it's become a job rather than a hobbie.......Maybe some experimenting is just what I need to regain my love of it........ Regardless of my outcome, you should try it yourself if it's important to you..... I think we all want the most bang for our buck and the only way to find out is to test it out....in your own setup.
Well, I gotta run to my bowling league.......... Have a great day and good luck Bob
I give UB credit for being good at what he does.....growing huge plants in soil....awesome!! Also, I dig that he posted a pic of some imperfect plants, showing none of us are all that....... However, his intolerance for another point of view is not commendable. I saw you tried to argue the spacing issue with no effect what so ever and that what he calls crowded isn't even close to what I called crowded....... Nope, I don't have a single bud big enough to hide behind.........but I don't have 5' plants either. Wonder how much stick I'd be buying to get that bud? My avatar is my garden........can you see wall or mylar on the other side? Can you even see rows 3-8? No.....which tells me I'm using every bit of light I have..........also notice that immediately below the canopy, it's dark as hell...... As I said...apples to oranges... Really, I'm just taking the same plant he has, rooting every branch so it gets it's full share of light..but he'll never see it that way because it doesn't fit his narrow view of things.......
The GE calculator was an excellent tool........and slammed even then by the same folks. Generally soil growers and/or Sativa growers couldn't meet the #....so it had to be the calculators fault........ So basically we proved hydro sog with indica clones was the most efficient growing method strictly in terms of production..........but since they couldn't compete the science is bunk......*sigh*.....
If you're growing for your own use.....it really doesn't matter. As long as you are happy with the results and it cost you less than you'd pay to buy it......it's all good. If you're a Sativa fan.....then it's likely worth the extra cost per gram to you....or if you just like variety, same thing......we know mixed batches aren't as even as single strain for the most part. If you're growing for a dispensary, then it's a different matter...........it is a business....cost per gram would be the perfect way to truly measure cost vs profit. So if it costs me (arbitrary #) $3/gram and you $5/gram to produce...but both sell for $10/gram at the dispensary......that's a huge difference.
For the record I am a caregiver.......I've had clients go to the dispensaries and they always come back disappointed in the high prices for lower quality.......... Their opinions are the ones that matter to me, because without them, I'd have to get a real job.....lol I ordered some new seeds to offer a little variety.......but if the cost to produce is higher, I have to charge more........ simple business... I added some lights so I can keep my setup going as it is....and try the new recruits on a limited basis.......If all goes well, I'll change to running different trays with different strains.......if not, I'll get a few more clients and fill the new space with what I know works best....... I'll also try my hand at some limited breeding, just for fun..........
Anyway, watch my party cup entry for a 1,2 and 4 top comparasion...........Just something I've been curious about but hadn't messed with. I fell into the "if it ain't broke....." trap and got lazy because it's become a job rather than a hobbie.......Maybe some experimenting is just what I need to regain my love of it........ Regardless of my outcome, you should try it yourself if it's important to you..... I think we all want the most bang for our buck and the only way to find out is to test it out....in your own setup.
Well, I gotta run to my bowling league.......... Have a great day and good luck Bob
Finally got around to taking a look at this link - it's a shame somebody puts that much work into growing in dirt, but to each his own.
Anyhow, take a look at post #45 when you get a chance - he clearly states "I trimmed all of the main stem fan leaves for better light penetration and circulation".
EDIT: Not that I agree with trimming fan leaves, per se - sometimes I do, and sometimes I don't. Just saying that you chose a poor example of a SOG that doesn't trim off lower branches; it's not your fault - you'll have as much luck finding that as you would a pink unicorn.
The being said, thanks for the link - gonna grab some of those genetics with my next order - love the colors
DaveCoulier
Well-Known Member
Well shit. I missed that part. Like you said, it is hard to find any sog where the bottom of the plant isnt manipulated in some way. Looking forward to yours though. Glad you like their plants. I turned another poster in this thread onto mandala gear. Im gonna grab one of their strains as well for my next grow. Hope you enjoy em. You should check out their Satori. Its probably their number #1, and some of their phenos grow just like the Sadhus, and you may even get the Pink pheno.
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
well i was out riding my bike the udder day an thiss stonr dood kame up 2 me an he say hey kid due u want a lollipop i have a big one and i said no tanks cause my mommee tol me knot to talk to stranglers or take anythang frum noboddy unles i new them sew i road my bike down the strete an this dog chased me an my sistr hoo was joging down da rode 2 and wen we got to thee intesexshun this big truk almost hitt my dog like the naybors dog got hitt yesturday his name was lucky but thay call him spot now and ther was this meen bully on da strete corner waving this bigg hood sayin he gott 2 bams per dratt an i said no wayy u cant get 2 bams per dratt i know u dont gro ur jest won bigg fakker sew he chased mee yellin ill sho u hoose a bigg fakker an jest wen i thouht i wuz dedd a nice copper mann kame alongg an reskewed mee my sistr and doggie end of story
bye!!!!!!
I actually made up a spreadsheet and was gonna post it for others, but then remembered that the "Author" in my Excel has my name next to itGod damn it man use paragraphs!
I would be interested in seeing a decent grow room efficiency calculator as well. I would imagine they would be easy enough to create in a spread sheet. Anyways kudos if you do the tests and let us know
Anyways, it took me about four minutes - just follow these instructions:
http://www.420magazine.com/forums/how-grow-marijuana/72133-how-do-i-accurately-measure-my-grow-room-efficiency.html
Hiesman
Well-Known Member
dude... i tried to read some of these posts... but they are jus stupid..... lol at uncle bens story... i will tell it to my plants 2nite b4 dark time lol...... if u go to page thirty eight and read my post.... u will see this is a stupid battle of pride rather than actual useful info
Mr. Homegrown
Well-Known Member
Now I am no botanist, just your average joe (no pun intended). I do believe in the KISS theory and also believe a little commonsense goes a long way.
So your saying if I was to pluck off 75% of the blossoms on an apple tree I would get apples the size of pumpkins off the remaining 25%? Now I know someone is going to say that is a tree, so lets say the same for a bean plant or strawberries. Would I get beans the size of carrots or strawberries the size of tomatoes?
I just personally thought what Dave said made a little better sense thinking of those cases. That possibly a plant will only produce enough "energy" to support what it has.
terrorizer805
Well-Known Member
Now I am no botanist, just your average joe (no pun intended). I do believe in the KISS theory and also believe a little commonsense goes a long way.
So your saying if I was to pluck off 75% of the blossoms on an apple tree I would get apples the size of pumpkins off the remaining 25%? Now I know someone is going to say that is a tree, so lets say the same for a bean plant or strawberries. Would I get beans the size of carrots or strawberries the size of tomatoes?
I just personally thought what Dave said made a little better sense thinking of those cases. That possibly a plant will only produce enough "energy" to support what it has.
I would rather take 2 huge trees rather than 10 little 1 cola plants, but that's just me.
No; there clearly is an inflection point (in economics we call that the law of diminishing returns) where removing more fruits does not add to the remaining fruit's growth.
However, the question is more along the lines of:
If you had a rose with three flowers, do you think that plucking one of the three would benefit the other two?
I also KISS.
That's fine, and there's nothing wrong with that.
However, there are certain sick fucks like myself and Vidiot who are always looking to improve our yield (without increasing grow footprint or lights, both of which are finite entities), so we look for more efficient ways to grow.
Some guys are happy with what they do, they've been doing it for forever, never saw the need/desire to try and improve/change anything, and God bless them - as long as they're happy, who cares?
That being said, it's been proven time and time again that SOG (flowering many small plants as opposed to fewer large plants, all else equal) is the most efficient form of gardening in terms of yield.
In order to SOG, you MUST lollipop - you simply have to, and if you don't, you're not maximizing your plant's potential.
That's why I find it confusing that "bush growers" would drop on in to a lollipop thread and give their $.02 to something that doesn't apply to them and that the overwhelming majority of them have never tried (and even more incredibly, flame said thread and the growers on it).
And just for the record, I used to grow bushes in dirt (five gallon grow bags of Pro-Mix) when I first started growing about 12 years ago, so I've done both.
terrorizer805
Well-Known Member
Also there is a plant limit in my county, i'm legally only alowed to grow six mature plants so as far as efficiency is concerned I would say bigger plants rather than 6 lolli'd plants.
