Something all the RIU righties need to keep in mind about the individual mandate..

Dragline

Well-Known Member
.. it was one of your ideas.. :blsmoke:

It's been stated before, but I figured it needed its own thread. It could have been done without had you not pitched a fit over a simple public option. But NOOOO that was SOCIALIST!!!

http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/03/24/1545524/individual-health-insurance-mandate.html

You can also kiss Mitt Romney good bye for being your GOP nomination for President. He will get shredded in the primaries by this.
:peace:
 

londonfog

Well-Known Member
.. it was one of your ideas.. :blsmoke:

It's been stated before, but I figured it needed its own thread. It could have been done without had you not pitched a fit over a simple public option. But NOOOO that was SOCIALIST!!!

http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/03/24/1545524/individual-health-insurance-mandate.html

You can also kiss Mitt Romney good bye for being your GOP nomination for President. He will get shredded in the primaries by this.
:peace:
yeah makes me shake my head ....I wanted the public option and kinda disliked the mandate, but was willing to take the good with the bad..
 

jeffchr

Well-Known Member
The right wanted no change at all. They said "no" to everything and anything.

They created false impressions of what the reform consisted of and used the media viciously to spread boldface lies. Under the circumstances, it is a miracle insurance reform passed at all.

The right prides themselves (at least here at RIU) on their intellect and abilities to analyze politics, but in reality they fell for the bullshit, hook, line and sinker.

The public is going to embrace this bill and almost everyone will realize benefits. The republicans are not going to look good this November. They can declare their early victory now, but they are begging.
 

ViRedd

New Member
Here's what you guyz are missing. From the article:

"In 2006, the idea was picked up by Mitt Romney, who as governor of Massachusetts crafted a huge healthcare reform by requiring almost all citizens to have coverage."

This was a STATE issue, not a federal issue. There is NO constitutional authority for the federal government to REQUIRE that the citizens of any state buy a product. The states, on the other hand, may do pretty much what they want to ... requiring that each state citizen buy auto insurance for instance.


 

Dragline

Well-Known Member
Here's what you guyz are missing. From the article:

"In 2006, the idea was picked up by Mitt Romney, who as governor of Massachusetts crafted a huge healthcare reform by requiring almost all citizens to have coverage."

This was a STATE issue, not a federal issue. There is NO constitutional authority for the federal government to REQUIRE that the citizens of any state buy a product. The states, on the other hand, may do pretty much what they want to ... requiring that each state citizen buy auto insurance for instance.


Ahhhhhhhh... So even for righties..

State run SOCIALISM = Good

Federal SOCIALISM = Bad

Too bad it was still your idea. Orrin Hatch of course was for it when he introduced it back in 1993. But he claims he "didn't pay attention to it". Which in itself is great sign that Senator Hatch admits to introducing a bill, that he "claims" he didn't know had a mandate, only because he wanted to kill another bill. Riiiiiiiiight!!!! LMAO :clap::blsmoke:

http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/03/hatch-attacks-individual-mandate-he-previously-supported-backs-coburns-viagra-amendment-video.php
 

ViRedd

New Member
Ahhhhhhhh... So even for righties..

State run SOCIALISM = Good

Federal SOCIALISM = Bad
Who said that state socialism is "good?" Not me. State socialism has just about ruined the state I live in. The exodus of businesses and producers from California is legendary. Our actual unemployment rate is hovering around 20%, not to far behind France.

The federal system is set up so that the states can compete with each other. If one state becomes to oppressive, the citizens can vote with their feet and move to another state, thereby cutting off the funds of the offending state. By turning over control to the federal government, there is no place to run from oppression. Get it?
 

Dragline

Well-Known Member
Who said that state socialism is "good?" Not me. State socialism has just about ruined the state I live in. The exodus of businesses and producers from California is legendary. Our actual unemployment rate is hovering around 20%, not to far behind France.

The federal system is set up so that the states can compete with each other. If one state becomes to oppressive, the citizens can vote with their feet and move to another state, thereby cutting off the funds of the offending state. By turning over control to the federal government, there is no place to run from oppression. Get it?
So Mitt Romney and Scott Brown are SOCIALISTS!!!!

You heard it here first folks. :clap: ;)
 

jeffchr

Well-Known Member
There are a dozen or more state AG's filing suit claiming the same thing - unconstitutional. Most experts agree the cases don't stand a chance of being heard. The suits are political. Another ploy from the right which won't work and will only bring more disgrace upon an already decimated party. And the minions follow onward toward impotence.
 

ViRedd

New Member
There are a dozen or more state AG's filing suit claiming the same thing - unconstitutional. Most experts agree the cases don't stand a chance of being heard. The suits are political. Another ploy from the right which won't work and will only bring more disgrace upon an already decimated party. And the minions follow onward toward impotence.
And just whom are these experts ... Chris Matthews and Bill Mahar? :lol:
 

FlyLikeAnEagle

Well-Known Member
There are a dozen or more state AG's filing suit claiming the same thing - unconstitutional. Most experts agree the cases don't stand a chance of being heard. The suits are political. Another ploy from the right which won't work and will only bring more disgrace upon an already decimated party. And the minions follow onward toward impotence.

Our AG here in Colorado is one of them. Two months ago when the DEA raided a medical grower the hypocritical bastard was everywhere in the papers and on TV applauding the DEA babbling on about Federal law superseding state law.
 

max420thc

Well-Known Member
So Mitt Romney and Scott Brown are SOCIALISTS!!!!

You heard it here first folks. :clap: ;)
actually at least mitt is a progressive.
im not sure about scott brown but being from MASS he probably is too.as bush and mccain are both progressives if you look at policy.
 

jeffchr

Well-Known Member
And just whom are these experts ... Chris Matthews and Bill Mahar? :lol:
google and see for yourself. no sense getting in a pissing match over who's expert is better. the fact is, the suits won't fly and if you think they will, well .... tea party anyone?
 

max420thc

Well-Known Member
There are a dozen or more state AG's filing suit claiming the same thing - unconstitutional. Most experts agree the cases don't stand a chance of being heard. The suits are political. Another ploy from the right which won't work and will only bring more disgrace upon an already decimated party. And the minions follow onward toward impotence.
Most experts agree
who are these most experts?
there is no constitutional mandate for government run health insurance.
there is no mandate for them to force more expense onto the states.
there is no constitutional authority for the federal government MAKE people purchase a product from anyone..:dunce:
 

ViRedd

New Member
google and see for yourself.
Translation: "I have no concrete ideas of my own. I only echo what I hear on MSNBC. I am a dupe of the communists and will follow them over the cliff leading into the chasm of economic slavery. No matter what I am told, no matter how it is explained to me, no matter the logic, I will remain stone-blind to the truth. I WILL SHOW THEM! :lol:
 

jeffchr

Well-Known Member
Most experts agree
who are these most experts?
there is no constitutional mandate for government run health insurance.
there is no mandate for them to force more expense onto the states.
there is no constitutional authority for the federal government MAKE people purchase a product from anyone..:dunce:
this is a rather interesting article because the conservative supreme court justices made a ruling in 2005 on home-grown marijuana that applies to the state AG's suit claiming healthcare is unconstitutional. that ruling is coming back to haunt the pricks.

y David G. Savage
March 27, 2010


Reporting from Washington - Lawsuits from 14 states challenging the constitutionality of the new national healthcare law face an uphill battle, largely due to a far-reaching Supreme Court ruling in 2005 that upheld federal restrictions on home-grown marijuana in California.

At issue in that case -- just like in the upcoming challenges to the healthcare overhaul -- was the reach of the federal government's power.

Conservative Justices Antonin Scalia and Anthony M. Kennedy joined a 6-3 ruling that said Congress could regulate marijuana that was neither bought nor sold on the market but rather grown at home legally for sick patients.

They said the Constitution gave Congress nearly unlimited power to regulate the marketplace as part of its authority "to regulate commerce."

Even "noneconomic local activity" can come under federal regulation if it is "a necessary part of a more general regulation of interstate commerce," Scalia wrote.

The decision throws up a significant hurdle for the lawsuit filed last week in federal court by 13 state attorneys -- all but one a Republican. The Virginia attorney general filed a similar, but separate suit.

The suits claim that the federal government has no right to force individuals to have health insurance -- a central provision of the new healthcare law.

"By imposing such a mandate, the act exceeds the powers of the United States under Article I of the Constitution," according to the suit from the 13 states.

But this week, Obama administration lawyers pointed to Scalia's opinion as supporting the constitutionality of broad federal regulation of health insurance, and most legal experts agreed.

In the healthcare legislation, signed by the president Tuesday, Congress required virtually all Americans to have health insurance beginning in 2014. Those who fail to do so could be assessed a tax penalty of up to $750 per year.

Legislators argued that the "individual mandate" was necessary because it would undercut the insurance market if individuals could just opt out of having health insurance. Freeloaders could wait until they were hurt in an accident or contracted a disease and then demand insurance coverage for their "preexisting condition."

The court's ruling in the 2005 case, Gonzales vs. Raich, "is an enormous problem" for those who contend that the healthcare mandate is unconstitutional, said Simon Lazarus, a lawyer for the Washington, D.C.-based National Senior Citizens Law Center.

"It clearly says Congress has vast regulatory authority over interstate commerce," he said.

David B. Rivkin, a Washington lawyer who is representing the 13 states, said the legal challenge rests on the principle that the federal government has limited powers.

"It is a matter of fundamental principle in the Constitution," he said. "Ours is a government of limited and enumerated powers. And there has to be a limit."

He also argued that the Constitution did not permit Congress to regulate health insurance, which has been traditionally under state control.

While the Bill of Rights put clear limits on the government's power to interfere with an individual's freedom of speech or free exercise of religion, the Constitution does not put clear limits on Congress' power.

Article I says, "Congress shall have the power to lay and collect taxes . . . [to] provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States . . . [and] to regulate commerce."

Since the New Deal era of the 1930s, the Supreme Court has repeatedly said that the federal government can regulate almost anything that involves economic or commercial activity.

Several constitutional law experts said this week that it is somewhere between unlikely and hard-to-imagine that the Supreme Court would strike down the new healthcare law.

"In my view, there is a less than 1% chance that the courts will invalidate the individual mandate," said George Washington University law professor Orin Kerr, a former clerk to Justice Kennedy.

But some said the high court's conservatives could decide that the Obama administration and congressional Democrats had gone too far.

"When it comes to the hot-button, partisan issues that divide Americans, precedent rarely dictates how the court will rule," said Adam Winkler, who teaches constitutional law at UCLA.

The "court has already shown itself to be willing to break from long-standing precedent in major cases, and it won't likely be deterred by such case law in a challenge to healthcare reform," he said.

Critics of the new health insurance mandate often claim the Founding Fathers could never have envisioned the federal government telling individuals that they must take an action or buy a private product.

That, however, is not quite correct, experts said.

As one of its earliest actions, Congress passed the Militia Act of 1792, which was signed by President George Washington. It mandated that "each and every able-bodied white male citizen" must "be enrolled in the militia."

Hardly shy about imposing federal regulations on private citizens, the militia law said that each new recruit must show up within six months carrying "a good musket or firelock, a sufficient bayonet and belt, two spare flints, a knapsack [and] a pouch to contain not less than 24 cartridges suited to the bore of his musket or firelock."

Winkler also dismissed the argument that Congress cannot penalize someone for "doing nothing," such as not buying health insurance.

"If you don't believe me, just 'do nothing' this April 15 when your tax bill is due," he said.


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Just one article on the interwebs - find the rest yourself. What am I your clerk?
 
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