collateral murder?

[abe23]

http://www.collateralmurder.com/

A few of you have probably seen this or heard of it....

It's a 2007 video from an apache helicopter shooting at a reuters camera team and a group of civilians. 12 people were killed and two young children were seriously injured. When he learns of this, one of the crew of the helicopter says something along the lines of "well, they shouldn't have brought their kids to a firefight".

Now, I have nothing but respect for the people in uniform and what they do, but this really bothers me. If you are at the trigger of a 30mm machine gun and fire it into a crowd, you better be damn sure about what you're shooting at. Especially in a counter-insurgency situation where every civilian we accidentally kill becomes a propaganda victory for the enemy, shouldn't we be expect more professionalism and restraint from our armed forces? Or am I being naive here to expect people who are trained to fight wars to show good judgement in these sort of instances? I'm sure some of you think the crew were totally justified in shooting into the crowd. Let's hear it? What do you think?

 

[fitch303]

Holy shit what's up with all these super annoying banner ads?

 

[max420thc]

yea..i remember that photo well it was around falluja iraq . the iraqis were all over a burned out tank or humvee iraqis were standing around it cheering, the idiot journalist was taking pictures of the shit some kids were around and a apache opened up on them..fuck them. it is standard procedure to destroy left behind equipment.and any idiot standing around it cheering to include journalists.

 

[abe23]

No, this is a different video. It's from 2007 and was just made public yesterday.

There is a group of people, some of them with video equipment, walking in the street and the helicopter just opens up on them. Have a look...

 

[Rob Roy]

Your tax dollars paid for that murder Abe.

 

[thizz13]

I saw that video, seemed pretty fucked to me, death from the air like that is for pussies.

 

[MexicanWarlord420]

yea..i remember that photo well it was around falluja iraq . the iraqis were all over a burned out tank or humvee iraqis were standing around it cheering, the idiot journalist was taking pictures of the shit some kids were around and a apache opened up on them..fuck them. it is standard procedure to destroy left behind equipment.and any idiot standing around it cheering to include journalists.

That's not what happened, at all..

 

[RickWhite]

I've seen other videos like this - the narratives are fake.

Video equipment my ass - those were clearly weapons.

 

[abe23]

I've seen other videos like this - the narratives are fake.

Video equipment my ass - those were clearly weapons.

Look at the video around 1:30. You can make out the journalists' video equipment very well. There are also one or two armed guards with AKs. Also if you forward to when the van comes to pick up the wounded, you can see the two kids sitting in the front seat just before they get pummeled with 30mm rounds.

Now, which part of the narrative is fake? That the two reuters employees were killed by the apache? That the van picking up the wounded got shot at? That there were kids in the van? That the american troops who arrived on the scene are running with the kids in their arms to get them evacuated? Exactly which part of this all is fake?

Your tax dollars paid for that murder Abe.

Yes, but we can probably agree that it's not the same as having my tax dollars subsidize health insurance for someone who cannot afford it, right? To borrow your terms, I'll take the welfare state over teh warfare state any day.

I do appreciate that these people are putting their lives on the line in order to 'defend' us. But they are also entrusted with a great deal of responsibility when we send them overseas to kill people on our behalf, so I do think this sort of thing is unacceptable. And the this incident is hardly unusual, it just so happens that it got more scrutiny because journalists employed by a foreign news agency got killed.

 

[Padawanbater2]

The clip is outrageous!

It reminds me of the time I walked into the Army recruiters office...

"oh yeah, you guys wanna feel some power?!"..."check this thing out! (as he picks up the model Apache on his desk)"... "no college degree required (BIIIIG GRIN!)"

Yeah...

Our military is FILLED with idiots who are useless to civilized society. It is not their fault, the society itself perpetuates the idea that it's "honorable" to fight for your country, which it is, but it most definitely is not honorable to fight to take someone elses country. I personally know at least a dozen men in uniform who know nothing other than military life, not even the rights which they promise to defend, can't recite the Bill of Rights, can't recite the preamble, don't know the difference between the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution... in short, they join the military because they're not cut out for college, they see the benefits and think it's a good deal. They "just wanna blow shit up!" - as one recruit I know put it. The smart(er) ones go on to become officers. I'm not discounting all the smart people inside the military, I'm pointing out the vast majority is right wing, conservative, Jebus believers who can't wait to fire a weapon. The kind who throw puppies off cliffs... The kind who shoot into crowds of civilians... The kind who DEFEND those actions... All worse than the shit stain on the toilet paper in my book.

Those guys should be held accountable for murder, because that's what it is, and it's caught on tape. They also tried to cover up the incident for 3 fuckin' years, so that should come along with some conspiracy charges for the DoD.

I can sure as hell say this, if any of those men were a part of my family, I would no longer have any problems picking up a REAL weapon and justifying my actions by taking a few lives myself, only difference is the assholes I would kill wouldn't be innocent (or unarmed, so brave!).

 

[Rob Roy]

When you try to run anothers life for them , there always seem to be unintended consequences.
Occupying foreign countries is a bad idea. What is the current "reason" that the USA is in Iraq now anyhow?

Abe, certainly extorting money to kill somebody is horrible. Extorting money to pay for someone's healthcare is still extortion, though isn't it ? What will ultimately happen if a person refuses the extortion here in the USA ? They will at a minimum be imprisoned, and it is not unreasonable to posit they could be killed if they peacefully refuse to comply.

Your argument of healthcare is for "our own good" is the same argument used to justify killing people in foreign lands.

My argument of leaving people alone, both foreign and domestically is I believe consistent and the morally correct one to hold.