Why Does My Ph Go Up Every Day? Will I Ever Stop Adding Ph Down?

[nostopin]

I have a 40gal Rez for my flood tray. it only takes about half the rez to fill the tray, but from what i understand the bigger the rez the easier to stabilize the PH and EC/PPM. from the first day i got my nutes up to 850 ppm, added PH down to bring it from 7 to around 5.5 (my meter broke so i'm using the vial and dropper type) i go back 12 hours later and the PH is back up to around 6.5 or 7. it does this when i dont add anymore water or nutes or when i do, it is always up 1 to 1.5 points the next day.

Is this normal? the only thing i have noticed on the plants is a couple of them have some leafs that the edges are curling up. but other than that they look good.

 

[nostopin]

sorry if this question is asked alot, but i couldnt find anything doing a search, and the FAQs search is broke i guess, no matter what i put in it says no results

 

[coopdevillan]

Whats your PPM been telling u ?

 

[IAm5toned]

bacteria in the res................................

 

[2triple0ss]

Are you using tap or RO? I've noticed tap water is harder to keep stable. Btw, 850ppm seems like a lot for the first day...

 

[homebrewer]

A subject that is often discussed but rarely understood by many growers is nutrient pH. Generally, we worry about pH and its affect on nutrient availability. For example, if pH is too high, iron may become unavailable. Even though your nutrient solution may have an ideal iron content, your plants may not be able to absorb it, resulting in an iron deficiency: the plant's leaves will yellow and weaken.

On the other hand, advanced hydroponic plant foods contain special "chelates" that are designed to assure iron availability at higher pH ranges. The result is that your crop will grow reasonably well. even at higher pH levels. Nonetheless, high pH can damage plants in other ways, The cause of a high solution pH can be fairly complex. Most city water supplies contain calcium carbonate to raise the pH of the water and prevent pipes from corroding. As a consequence you are starting with water that has an abnormal pH, typically 8.0 for city water.

The big way to deal with this is to mix fresh nutrient with your water, let stand for a while to stabilize, then test and adjust the pH. With city water supplies you will often have to add a bit of pH down (usually phosphoric acid) to lower the pH to the range for most plants, between 5.8 and 6.2. As the plants grow. it is a good idea to occasionally test the pH and adjust it if needed. You can safely allow pH to drift between 5.5 and 7.0 without adjustment. in fact, constantly dumping chemicals into your system to maintain a perfect pH of 5.8 to 6.0 can do a lot of damage. It is common for pH to drift up for a while, then down, and up again. This change is an indication that your plants are absorbing nutrient properly. Adjust pH only if it wanders too far.

A pH below 5.5 or above 7.0 can mean trouble. but don't overreact. An apparently sudden and dramatic shift in pH can be the result of a malfunctioning pH meter. If in doubt, double check with a reagent (color match) pH kit before adjusting your solution. Also remember that all pH measuring methods are temperature dependent. Read and follow all of the instructions that came with your meter or test kit.

Another cause of unstable pH is poor quality growing media. Industrial grade rockwool and gravel are notorious for having very high pH levels that cause your nutrient pH to rise, often to constantly rise, often to dangerous levels. A simple way to test a new growing medium is to put some of the medium - rockwool, gravel, soil - into a clean cup, then immerse (soak) the sample. in distilled or "deionized" (chemically pure) water. Let this sit for a little while and then test the pH of the water, note the pH and continue to let the sample sit. Test the pH occasionally for about a week until it has stabilized. Has the pH risen to 8.0, perhaps 9.0? Construction grade gravel can go as high as 10.0 - torture to roots. death to plants!

Never underestimate growing media as sources of pH problems. This is one of the primary reasons that "waterculture" hydroponic methods are gaining popularity over "media-based" hydroponics. The less medium you use, the fewer problems you will encounter with pH instability and salt accumulation. Plus, the water-culture systems require less water and nutrient than media-based methods, due to higher efficiency and reduced evaporation.

 

[2triple0ss]

WoW, straight out of the text book, but don't think it answers his question.

 

[nostopin]

i'm using hydroton. spent days cleaning it. i'm using tap water its around 54ppm and 7.0 for ph. i let it sit in a 55gal rez with air and a pump to circulate before i use it on any plants. maybe it is the hydroton raising the ph??? i dont know, maybe its the plants??? i just imagined that once you balance the ph it would stay close to that level, unless you add something with a different ph

oh and its a new rez with fresh water. i dont think i have any bacteria yet.
anyone try advanced nutrients "PH perfect" yet?

 

[homebrewer]

You'll find a lot more info on Google than you will here: http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/hydro/msg050510018323.html

FWIW, I use GH nutes and experience a slight drift upwards. I usually need to adjust my pH every 48 hours.

 

[Anonymouse]

Rockwool and tap water that didn't sit long enough is what caused me to have similiar problems, I was going through ph-down like crazy, not even bothering to use capfulls anymore.

Good prep on the RW helps alot, you may want to consider flushing your system with Florakleen or something similiar between res changes, this will remove small amounts of buildup.

 

[paintnick]

if you are growing organically u should use EM1, its a microbacteria, usually will stabilize your PH and PPM. go to your local hydro stoor and ask about it!

 

[Shanus]

Heres my answer to the problem in a 13 gallon 7.6 tap water tote. Put water in tub, add ph down, get it down to about 5.2-5.4., add nutes (i use ph stable nutes) . Aerate with some stones for 2 hrs, recheck ph. The water company told me calcium and chlorine in water. Calcium buffers ph back up of course, so the ph is always up. Add more ph down to get it to 5.4 again (doesnt take much), and set the damn thing into motion. Chasing your ph is a nightmare, DONT DO IT!! My epic nute company talked me thru it, and a ph swing UP can be a good thing! As it swings THRU the nutrients range, all the nutes become available! Don't freakin' chase ur ph!! Bigger rez IS easier to stabilize, but bigger also means more of whats buffering you back up. Have you tried 30 gallons? I try to push the least water, saves me nutes and work.

After about 3 days with the air always running in the tubs (no bacteria,mold,haze here!), my ph is usually up around 6.2. I add more ph down until I hit about 5.6, and walk away! 4 days later when I change out, the ph is usally about 6.2-6.6, perfect!! I read about "dont change the ph too drastic" and all that. Well, mine goes from 6.4 down to 5.2 in the time it takes me to carry 30 gallons of water. Only once did I see a ph leaf issue, and that was when my ph meter blew upon nute change. I hate buying ph down, but since my fav hydro shop DOES pay its employees from my pocket, it lessens the hurt. That, and setting up a RO in a rental, or buying water just isnt cost effective for me.. Catching rain... not in this yard. I have had wondeful results with my tap water. MAybe pure would be better, but not feasible...yet. *cmon ph perfect nutes!!! Please dont be bullshit!!

O' btw, Ive read a TON of articles on chlorine. My water company uses liquid bleach. The ppm in my water is around 125. From what i have read, chlorine kills bacteria and mold ect.. It also disappates quickly. I used to use hydrogen peroxide, but learned it binds quickly and gets nuetralized. I also used to let my water sit out for days before using. I decided I'd just run it fresh, use the chlorine to keep my media clean, and in 48hrs it's be gone anyhow. So far, in practice, this logic holds true. I dont recall whos article got me here, but the science behind water baffled me so much i decided to just use the shit outta my tap. Workin so far and feelin' good about it too.

I am now so comfortable with the way my water acts. One time i went to check my ph... it was down??? WTF!! I knew something was wrong. I looked at my chart, it had been 12days since nute change. My guess is.... the salts or waste were building. I did a fresh nute change. BOOM, grew like magic again. Never afforded store water, does it react the same? Always thought the buffers in my tap water would stabilize my ph (once i got it where i wanted it). Anyone got any info to share?

Happy growing!

 

[roadguy]

Hey
I have seen your problem with some of my friend around the country that are using hydroton. One of your problems could be that your are not flooding enough times per day. This can cause build up on the hydroton then when you do flood it that washes out and causes ph spikes. Other prblem could be temp of your rez since the ph increase through the day I would say this is more likely. Alot of companys use urea to increase the N in NPK. This is not real bad just when the temp of your rez creaps up that urea turns to amoinia (sorry not much of a speller) and will make your ph drift up. I hear alot of stuff about PH and wher it should be. I have always kept my ph between 6.5 and 7 in veg and let it drop to 6.0 to 6.5 in flower and have had NO problems. Any time you get leaf curl no matter what direction its PH. Hope this helpsView attachment 1034187
Always thought a picture is worth a thousand word so I attached a little peak of my last freind.lol
HEY ADVANCED BLABLA GUY have you checked out the hitlers opionon of ADVANCED on utube lmaf
Just for a note I use a product from FHD called Holland secret, they have a clean three part with some great SIMPLE additives, these guys got it going on 8 week schedual kills

 

[TheBoozer]

What's the temperature in your reservoir? Is light getting to your reservoir? Do you have rockwool in your table exposed to light? Your problem could be caused by numerous things. Give us some more info. and I'm sure we can help.

 

[nostopin]

no rockwool, i took them straight out of the cloner and put them in the hydroton. i flood 4 times for 30 min during the light cycle. i have a cover over my rez so no light gets in. The plants are growing at a pretty good rate, but not as quick as i expected. maybe even a little slower than my dirt grows. the water stays pretty cool, around 70-75. i have started to notice that the hydroton is getting a little bit of a white coating on it, only on the top, maybe salt buildup. i'm loosing about 3-4 gallons of water a day to the plants/evaporation i'll try and get some pics up today of the leafs curling

 

[nostopin]

so here are the pics. not sure if you can see the prob with the leafs or not. temp is a lil high abour 90. i'm getting a portable air conditioner and going to vent it outside the garage through the roof vent. this is a room inside a garage. it got up to about 110 in the garage but only 90 in the room. still need it cooler though

 

[nostopin]

at the moment i am using floranova 1 part grow and the 1 part bloom. i use it for my dirt grows cause its easy. not sure if this is a wise choice for hydro. i have heard mixed reviews for General Hydro. i have heard a few people say that they didn't like the salt build up. In the past i have used Advanced Nutrients, but if i could afford the whole line i wouldn't have to grow weed lol. seams like everything they have works in conjunction with another product they have. I have a very small hydro shop that just opened down the street. local growers that i would like to support. they carry "Humboldt Nutrients" i'm interested in. they also have the other stuff, dutch master, GH, etc. If anyone would like to share their personal choice that would be great. i'm going to flip it to 12 soon and would like to start with whatever brand i'm going to be using. i hear its bad juju to switch during flower. also what are the bare essentials that i need? so far I know i need my base nute, calcium and magnesium supplement, and a bud enhancer like "big bud" what about something to keep the roots healthy? AN has "sensizyme" and the high priced "voodoo juice" I'm lookin for a brand thats gonna have all that only cheaper than AN

 

[Shanus]

Wow, thats a Ton of hydroton. My last grow, I used AN and EJ in hydro. It way outperformed my earth juice in soil! I only used their 3 part gmb, the overdrive, and the final phase. I'd say the cost of that nutrient set was about $160? Anyhow, its enough nutes to keep 60gall res tank refreshed every week for 1 grow. No need for CalMag, tap water contains plenty of calcium. I recently bit the bullet and bought some of that voodoo juice, along with a few others. $400 in nutes IS hard to swallow. I cant seem to justify buying sensizyme. My hydro guy swears by it, but at the rates suggested and price on the bottle, I'd have to take out a second job! Maybe if my roots looked like they had issues after pulling, Id jump for it. If you want to patronage your local shop, buy their brand. Opinions in the MJ feild are like assholes, and noone ever agrees on 1 product . I doubt GH is making a shit product and fooling people. If its one of the big nute companies, just buy what the shop carries, and work at perfecting usage. As for bad to switch at flower... not sure i agree with that. I do believe switching nutes at flower is the idea aint it? You know, let them bitches know that change is here?! Im pretty sure it's more about being comfortable with your nutrient and grow plan, over the brand you use. I listen to my hydro shop guy. I know he's making money off me... thats the point!! He also knows that if he fuks me and sells me some bullshit, I'll find out and he wont get my cash in the future. I have huge hopes with the bud ignitor, big bud and voodoo. If I dont see Amazing results, its back to the easy 3part and overdrive formula no extras.

My hydroton ALWAYS gets that white powder on it. Since im using tap water, im thinking the white is calcium buildup. You know, the exact same thing that keeps me buying so much damn ph down! Anyways, Ive spent tons of time flushing and cleaning the hydroton to get the residue gone. So far, flushing from the top helps, but I havent seen the powder causing any adverse effect on the plants. The powder is only on the very top of the media, so I would suggest not worrying too much about it.

Are your plants all just in that one tub, or do you have em seperated somehow under the surface? Just wondering how you are going to move them around and spin them? Keep us posted with what you end up with. Happy growing!

 

[nostopin]

yah they are all just "IN there" lol I hope they like their placement under the lights cause its too late now. next round i'm gonna fill the table with net pots so i can move them. I was referring to changing brands and/or types of nutes like 4 or 5 weeks into flower. like going from a 1 part to a 2 or a 3 part from another brand. not really sure why it would make a difference. but ya you got a point Shanus, if i insist on buying local i gotta get what they carry. I just wish the owner did hydro so he would have a lil more input. he only grows in soil 2 times a year and the rest is outdoor. HEY.... heres an idea. what about a 55gal barrel DWC setup for outdoor. 1 huge plant per barrel. aah now i'm just dreamin

 

[Shanus]

My nutes went from regular GMB advanced to Overdrive 5th week in. Now, I know they the same company, but they arent the same shit. I also incorporate some earth juice. I dont think your plant cares if it wears NIKE's for a month then PRO-WINGS, as long as the shoe fits the occassion. Ive gone from hydro grow to soil in the last 4 weeks of my acapulco's flower. Jerked her outta the hydroton and plopped her in cheap shit soil. She gets watered with hydro leftovers each week. You know what? Shes no worse and no better than she was before I decided to make room for my other hydro's. Shes continued to flower, and looks like she wasnt too pissed about it. I say, no worries. If you are using quality stuff, it should all work fairly well together. Hell, chant this with me "ITS JUST A WEED". Get the stuff you want to use, and use it.

Kudos on the idea of net pots next grow. Have you thought of perhaps just plastic tubs with lesss holes? If you arent growing to huge heights, Ive found that tubs let you move more easily than net pots. The roots stay in the hydro, in the tub. The roots crawl out of net pots and can be broken when moved. Just my 2 cents.

Have you asked your local owners to carry items of interest? Perhaps you can get them interested in hydro, and help change their sales plan? Youd be amazed at what they can order for you. As for info, youre looking in the right places already. Last you got to go is trial and error. Happy growing