Can You Adam And Eve It?

skunkushybrid

New Member
You are dumb as hell. Dumbass.
You make a statement yet fail to follow it up with any reasoning. I am dumb? Everything except us existing could be false? Come on you mug. I merely pointed out that you are wrong. This makes ME dumb?

You cannot think clearly so you react with personal attacks. If you think that everything except the fact we are alive is a lie then prove it, dickhead. At least provide adequate reasoning. I accept, of course, that this is beyond some people, and from your last post it seems very likely that you fall into this category

Everything... except. Very strange choice of words. EXCEPT you do not have the brain power to back them up.
 

muu232

Well-Known Member
You make a statement yet fail to follow it up with any reasoning. I am dumb? Everything except us existing could be false? Come on you mug. I merely pointed out that you are wrong. This makes ME dumb?

You cannot think clearly so you react with personal attacks. If you think that everything except the fact we are alive is a lie then prove it, dickhead. At least provide adequate reasoning. I accept, of course, that this is beyond some people, and from your last post it seems very likely that you fall into this category

Everything... except. Very strange choice of words. EXCEPT you do not have the brain power to back them up.
You are dumb?: Yes.
Everything except us existing could be false?: Yes, it could be. I never said everything except my existence is false, I said it could be.
This makes YOU dumb?: Yes because what you pointed out wasn't even what I said.
Prove everything is a lie except existence.: Why? I never said, "Everything is a lie! Nothing is real!" I said you can't know for sure what is true and what is not by appearances. Touch up on your reading comprehension skills.

You can get the last word in after this but I'm done with this argument, kinda pointless ya know? :joint: :peace: :blsmoke:
 

preoQpydDlusion

Well-Known Member
There is only one thing you can 100% know to be true, and that is that you exist. Anything can be false. What if I told you I was drinking water. I let you examine it: it looks like water, feels like water, smells like water, tastes like water. From simple observations of your senses, can you KNOW that it is water that I am drinking? Or is that just what your brain is ASSUMING for you? Any assumption of any kind means you cannot KNOW it to be TRUE. You have assumed it to be true. Stop trusting your senses.
Muu! hell yes! ive been sayin this shit for pages, n somebody finally agrees.

ok, for the rest of u- check it out. perception is the only thing thats real. solipsism <read
i am the only thing i know to be real. i dont know what i am, where i am, when, etc, because these 'facts' are based on labels. (i will get back to this later) but i do know that i am because i perceive (descartes-"i think, therefor i am"). i could try to question if i even perceive, but that would be ridiculous.

so perception is real. (ive never heard anybody here try to deny that, but im just throwin it out) now for more elaboration on the 'fuck everything else' bit.

(first of all, i want to make clear that i am not a childish, antisocial individual. what im about to say is the product of such a mindset, that is, it was conceived by me when i was a very unhappy person, but that shouldnt damage its legitimacy. if its "true" its "true." like u should with anything u here, u should listen with unbiased ears. ive said shit like this around ppl before and ive seen them freeze up for a few seconds (seriously, like freeze frame almost no movement, blinking, breathing, etc) and then they just smile n go "ur high" or give me a really uncomfortable "dude ur creepin me out" look. so when u read this (nice intro, huh?) it will be obvious that a disconnected individual has thought of it. if ur gonna argue with me, (if somebody could prove me wrong i would be really surprised, maybe happy) "dude only a crazy person thinks like that" isnt an acceptable rebuttal. at least dissect/attack my assumptions if ur gonna prove me wrong. im goin to explain the idea behind the brain in the vat and then continue to explain how i see the universe, using what i believe to be reasonable theological deductions.)

solipsism is also sumtimes known as external world skepticism. say u live in the real world, that is, u believe in what u perceive to be true. that means u are looking at a monitor, reading words via an internet browser with other humans. the 'world' is separate from u. from anothers perspective, yes, u are a part of the world, but based from your direct experiences, u are different than the text u see on this page.

because of this separation, u rely on your senses to perceive the world. these senses are what u experience, not the actual "world". this goes along with the "brain in a vat" thought experiments. not a new idea, but some people have never thought about it before (hasnt everybody seen the matrix by now?)

so its possible that u dont have a computer, u may just be a brain hooked up to some machine thats sending electrical impulses, causing u to assume different things. now
frthnkr85, u say a big reason we should believe in God is because His existence is possible and shouldnt be ruled out... if something doesnt make sense, it doesnt make sense. ill admit that the existance of god might be possible, but its pretty much just as reasonable to think that ur a bioelectric battery used to power a race of AI robots. (creationism and solipsism arent popular among scientists, because they are unfalsifiable. that is, the scientific method is useless for analyzing such ideals. thats why i personally think that it ridiculous to try to prove chrsitanity wrong through scientific fact. if ur gonna prove it wrong, skunk, u have to do it philosophically)

being that we are all separate from universe and rely on our senses to experience, our view of the world is limited to our ability to perceive. a blind person experiences a very different world than u and i. not a groundbreaking thought, but what does that entail? every single person has a different reality. even if there is a "real world" that we are all indirectly connected to, when we filter it through our senses, its different. and then our personalities and ideals fuck with it too. is the glass half empty or half full?

now, creationism seems to be an obvious way to try to describe how things are for one simple reason. every thing u know is created somehow. this computer for instance. your computer was physically created piece by piece by somebody/something (probly an automated machine). but even in the "real world" this isnt really a computer. "computer" is simply a label we give the idea of a computer, and we all have a different idea of what "computer" is. the true creation of your computer, in your reality, wasnt when some robot assembled it, it was when u acknowledged its existence.

the thoughts of an afterlife seem appealing because people either are afraid of death and nonexistence because we dont fully understand it, or theyre kinda greedy and they want be rewarded by playing by the rules. everything that has a beginning has an end. but heres the thing- did u have a beginning? sure u have a birth certificate that says u were born unto this world at such n such time n date. but in your reality, based on your memory, do u remember a time that u didnt exist? certainly not.

WHAT I BELIEVE
when john doe dies, he will die. but i believe his 'soul' will keep going, it will be reborn as somebody else. the transition is done through dreams. his last and final dream, as he dies will be the beginning of his next life. when u die, u still perceive, but ull pretty much lose all memories of this life. your good/bad deeds will effect your conscience, at that will effect your next life. if u feel guilt on your death bed, u start off the next life as a cranky baby.

and when ur really young, time seems to be stretched out like crazy, so 2 years of bad guilt may almost seem like an eternity in hell. so if there is literal retribution after death maybe thats how it works. i gettin tired, im starting to ramble...

i think the Holy Bible is more or less a lesson in conservation. jesus n pals were wise enough to notice how indulgence works. people get greedy and speed up the process of nature. this planet will one day be destroyed, but because people indulge so much, its coming way faster.

we should just enjoy each others company, because in the largest scale, we are all one. were all alone in a way, i bet we are all the same person. the same consciousness. we all have the same soul. just one huge timeline. almost indefinite, but it is limited by the possibility of chance. then it starts over. im fuckin tired, and if u read all this i congratulate you. and i thank u. im feeling really good right now being i got all this shit summarized.

peace
 

skunkushybrid

New Member
sorry preq', I still don't buy it. Our subconscious minds pick up things that we aren't AWARE of at the time. Said computer may have come into OUR reality at said time, yet our subconscious at this moment knows that computers are assembled parts, likely made in different countries. In other words, our brains make billions of calculations at any given time that we are not aware of.

We cannot deny truth, or reclassify it into something more complicated like perception. I agree there are certain things we can only perceive to be true, but our perception of this truth does not make it truth merely perception of. Truth is something different, often the opposite of lie. To take one definition of the word does not encompass the word as a whole.
 

skunkushybrid

New Member
We foretell destruction as we know our own lives are limited. We find it hard to imagine a world without us in it, find it hard to imagine that this world would exist at all. Some people can't imagine it at all.

This is what leads to religion, for we see no hope for OURSELVES. If the world is about to end anyway, does this not make death easier?

I am of a different mindset. I look forward to the glorious future of MANKIND, to a time when we have moved into the stars. To a time where all of MANKIND is free from want and needs, free from oppression. This is our future, not hell and damnation.
 

frthnkr85

Well-Known Member
well here we go again...lol...
preo outstanding piece there and skunk though i don't agree with you whole heartedly you make some good points so i guess it is my turn again...

human beings are unique in our ability to conciously create/destroy... your computer for instance... that is a product based on AI (artificial intelligence) search the world over and you will find no one nor nothing that can even comprehend the idea of AI but a human... Now if we could just give computers free will we would be god... but we cannot and not because god is all powerful but because we don't yet have that understanding because allthough i think the bible is mostly corrupted there are hints to be gained from reading it... we are created in gods image and i think that means our soul... you see i agree with preo in that we are connected to the universe though our soul... it ties us into eternity and existance and that is why we can tell the difference between good and evil and why we can analyze mr. skunk.... Your proof is meaningless because of our uniqueness... if you can find on this planet or in this solar system even another lifeform similar to humans then i will concede my point... but no matter how far you look or how much you analyze i know you won't and there is a reason for that... that reason is this... god knows what he/she/whatever is doing... humans put on the same planet constantly fight and struggle... why is that you wonder? well i'll tell you... because we all want everyone else to believe what we believe... and that will eventually be our downfall... i know you want to see the perfection of mankind skunk but as proven with adam and eve which i believe to be a lesson more then fact... humans are to corruptible... we want what we are not supposed to have... so eventually our world will be ravaged and torn by war and destroyed... read revelations its funny how something written so long ago can mirror a society thousands of years in the future... However as i said before humans will go on because of our souls our link to the universe... that is as obvious to me as the back of my hand... i'm sorry if you don't like my brand of truth but just as confident as you are skunk that what you know you know i'm sure even you can admit you don't know everything and that my friend is where the flaw in your argument is... because only one who knows everything has the right to deny anything its existance and you deny god his existance...(probably not a good idea but what do i know) It is not your place unfortunately to say what is and what is not just as it is not my place to call you a moron for what you believe because after all i don't know everything either... So my challenge still stands find me someone that knows everything so that i might have all the answers which i seek...otherwise... well if you don't know everything then you know nothing... because all knowledge is linked and without all of the pieces to the puzzle you have nothing... you may think that you know but really you know nothing... and that my friends is all you can be certain of... the universe cares not for your thoughts nor for your life... only your contributions... and if you go against the flow of the universe the flow of eternity then you will be sorry and in my heart i know and believe that one truth more then any other... well until next time kiddies...
 

skunkushybrid

New Member
in what way can we go against the flow?

Dolphins are fairly close to Humans in intelligence. So are pigs. So are chimps. Ina couple of million years chimps may well be walking upright (all the time) and have adapted some sort of language. Once understanding kicks in, there is no telling how fast their intellect could increase.

You still haven't told me how many atheists you've witnessed scream out to god on their deathbeds. I'd be more inclined to believe that people that know they're dying would think of their families, the people they are never going to see again.

free will, we can create clones, and mix the genes up to create new animals. Is this not creating new life. I have created life 3 times. If a god creates life, then what am I?
 

frthnkr85

Well-Known Member
first off what makes you think if after millions of years no animal has been able to understand that they will ever... they have had the chance if evolution is correct... but unfortunatly it is not... we humans have a gift i hope that you can at least realize that... and as to the atheists crying out more then i want to think about it is rather sad because in the end no one no matter how smart you think you are or no matter how much you say humans die and cease to exist no one really wants that... if you say you do you are a liar... i however do understand your point and see how you could come to that conclusion... the world is a dark messed up place and sometimes it is hard for anyone to find hope... but the world is a small place in the overall picture and humans even smaller yet... and as far as going against the flow that is simple... closing your mind is going against the flow... arguing against the reality of existance and all that that entails... skunk you may be right i will give you that... because my philosophy says that anything and everything could be the right answer... i doubt that you are right but you could be... i won't close my mind and i will give you your right as a part of the same universe i belong to... you exist therefore you have a right to your opinion on the matter... but i also believe those that find every reason why we shouldn't exist will cease to exist and their energy their lifeforce if you will... will also cease to exist for you will use your gift to destroy yourself... just as you hope humanity will someday rule the stars... I know that that will never happen as long as humanity has its mind closed to every possibility... and your mind is closed... and no matter what facts or proof you use to justify why it doesn't change the fact that you place limits on yourself and your potential... That my friend is the cold hard truth...
 

skunkushybrid

New Member
first off what makes you think if after millions of years no animal has been able to understand that they will ever...

First off, an animal has begun to understand. We have, and there are a few potentials out there too.

they have had the chance if evolution is correct... but unfortunatly it is not... we humans have a gift i hope that you can at least realize that...

They have had the chance? Yet evolution is ongoing. It was only in the 70's that chimp's were found to hunt intelligently for prey. Meat that they eat raw, pulling at the marrow from the bones. If you study the history of MANKIND you'd find that this exact behaviour is held directly responsible for us gaining this gift as you so aptly put it.

and as to the atheists crying out more then i want to think about it is rather sad because in the end no one no matter how smart you think you are or no matter how much you say humans die and cease to exist no one really wants that... if you say you do you are a liar...

This still doesn't answer my question. It is my belief that you have never heard an out and out atheist scream out to god on their deathbeds. Of course there isn't anybody (hardly) that actually want to die. Which is why we store modicums of faith into fanciful stories.

and as far as going against the flow that is simple... closing your mind is going against the flow... arguing against the reality of existance and all that that entails... skunk you may be right i will give you that... because my philosophy says that anything and everything could be the right answer... i doubt that you are right but you could be... i won't close my mind and i will give you your right as a part of the same universe i belong to... you exist therefore you have a right to your opinion on the matter... but i also believe those that find every reason why we shouldn't exist will cease to exist and their energy their lifeforce if you will... will also cease to exist for you will use your gift to destroy yourself... just as you hope humanity will someday rule the stars... I know that that will never happen as long as humanity has its mind closed to every possibility... and your mind is closed... and no matter what facts or proof you use to justify why it doesn't change the fact that you place limits on yourself and your potential... That my friend is the cold hard truth...
LoL, MY mind is closed? No, it is reborn. Free to think without boundary. Your thinking can only encompass the religion you follow. Belief in a god equals restraint, whereas I have never had those chains around me. I was brought up not to believe in bullshit, to sniff it out then destroy it. You honestly think that because I KNOW there is no god, my mind is closed?

I place no limits on myself, and I honestly can't believe that I am trying to explain the obvious. Air Force? Don't you need qualifications for that?
 

preoQpydDlusion

Well-Known Member
sorry preq', I still don't buy it. Our subconscious minds pick up things that we aren't AWARE of at the time. Said computer may have come into OUR reality at said time, yet our subconscious at this moment knows that computers are assembled parts, likely made in different countries. In other words, our brains make billions of calculations at any given time that we are not aware of.

We cannot deny truth, or reclassify it into something more complicated like perception. I agree there are certain things we can only perceive to be true, but our perception of this truth does not make it truth merely perception of. Truth is something different, often the opposite of lie. To take one definition of the word does not encompass the word as a whole.
the subconscious mind is based on your assumptions. people think that theres like some other person in their head calculating shit for them, but thats goofy. the "subconscious mind" is simply a label we give the collection of assumptions we rely on to live normal lives. so when u say our subconscious knows that computers are assembled, ur saying that u reflected very briefly on something u chose to accept as fact some time ago.

im not reclassifying truth as perception. im saying that perception itself is the only thing that should be considered 100% real beyond reasonable doubt. doubt can be applied to everything else. because of this, frthnkr85, u can know everything, in a way. the existence of perception can be used as a building block for figuring out the nature of reality.

granted, anything u ponder about is limited to your perception, or your reality. so, i acknowledge that i should never consider my views to be universally true, but being that i wont ever experience anything but my reality, anything else is irrelevant. (so obviously, im not sharing my viewpoint to try to convert minds or prove anybody wrong, im just trying to reinforce my own ideals as well as help others find their own comfortable view of their world.)

frthnker85, thanks for the complement. i honestly appreciate it. but with all the times u have called atheists (or more specifically skunk) close-minded, i hope u realize that ur mind too, is closed. assuming any thought or idea to be false does narrow your perception, but considering a school of thought to be true does the same thing. by following a creationist viewpoint u are dis-acknowledging it being false. u are limiting your viewpoint as well.

having a slightly narrower view (than ur fullest, most unbiased abilities) shouldnt be considered naive tho. consider as many viewpoints as u can, but dont feel bad or persecute others for not following a path that conflicts with your/their personal reality.
 

preoQpydDlusion

Well-Known Member
LoL, MY mind is closed? No, it is reborn. Free to think without boundary. Your thinking can only encompass the religion you follow. Belief in a god equals restraint, whereas I have never had those chains around me. I was brought up not to believe in bullshit, to sniff it out then destroy it. You honestly think that because I KNOW there is no god, my mind is closed?

I place no limits on myself, and I honestly can't believe that I am trying to explain the obvious. Air Force? Don't you need qualifications for that?
Im sorry i wont (for times sake) back up my opinion with examples at this time, but you do not have a reborn mind. u do think with boundaries, rather obvious, constricting ones at that.
 

frthnkr85

Well-Known Member
actually preo i have many times over in my posts conceeded that skunk may very well be right in fact all atheists MAY be... i don't believe so but they could be... any belief could be right because as you say reality is based on what we believe... for instance i believe prayer works... but not because some higher power wills for it to but instead because of the combined focus of so many human minds... it is like the example of those that will fight to live and can overcome diseases that no one thinks that they would live through... their will to live keeps them alive... and skunk to prove a point I will bring back some memories i would not really like to think about but i will try to be brief... I loaded aircraft in the airforce... well i did more then that but thats all you need to know for this story.. anyhow... i worked twelve hour shifts at balad AB if you look you can see it is a base in the middle of the suni triangle... in the course of loading aircraft we had to every night during my shift load the baggage for med evac planes to germany... the people that were put on this plane were mostly army and marine personnel wounded during combat... some were pretty bad... so much so that i saw quite a few die right there on the plane... when military personnel die in a combat zone they do not fly them out because the benefits their family recieve for them giving their life in a warzone are substantially better then those that they would recieve if the death certificate were written elsewhere... so many times i saw people in their weakest moments and more often then not their last words were to god... now how did i know they were atheist?... well another part of my job was being present when caskets were loaded on to the aircraft to be flown out... and if the person was religious then they would have a preist of their faith send them off before they left... well the memories stick in my mind for they are unpleasent and i noticed a lot of those people that i had to see pass away had no preist... and no preist means one thing in the military and that is that they were atheist and wanted no ceramony and that their wishes were followed... i'm sure that is proof enough for you skunk... if its not i'm not going to elaborate further so believe what you will... skunk you seem very smart and well informed and you are entitled to your belief... i hope that one day you will see more then you do but if you don't and you are happy with your life well thats your thing... good luck... as far as i go i believe we are an integral part of the universe linked to it by way of a soul... if god is the underlying energy of the universe, the god of the christians, or if we in fact are our own gods... only time will tell... I have a long life ahead of me yet and i hope that when on my death bed i'm happy with what i've learned and happy with how my life turned out... skunk i believe that is what is important to you also and if we share just that one belief then it is enough...
 

preoQpydDlusion

Well-Known Member
o, leafwrapper, one day u will smoke so much bud u will realize that being stoned doesnt really effect your personality directly. i like to be stoned all the time, but i dont think thats relevant.

but if that was just a joke, ur a funny guy

ey frthnkr, i got respect for u man. although i honestly think that christianity is pretty weird, i think u follow it for the best reasons. o, n id like to bring something up i was thinking about the other day.

u said that successful prayers may be the result of combined focus. kinda like quantum physics? if done in the right way, ppl can, with their will alone, make stuff happen in real life?

evolution? what?

giraffes probly looked like horses a long time ago, and maybe each generations combined focus of wanting to reach higher caused slight mutation on the genetic scale, eventually giving them really long necks.
 

IPokeSmot

Well-Known Member
there was a misinterpretation in the bible. adam was making ribs and hollered at god yoh let me get some b1tches. god's like 'aight but let me get one of them ribs' leave it up to the boring puritans of the past to take a regular afternoon story and turn it into some long winded rant about nothing much. god needed one of them ribs because he was hungry, not to do his magic.
ahahahaha. youre great:mrgreen:
 

muu232

Well-Known Member

we should just enjoy each others company, because in the largest scale, we are all one. were all alone in a way, i bet we are all the same person. the same consciousness. we all have the same soul. just one huge timeline. almost indefinite, but it is limited by the possibility of chance.
Reminds me of the "Warriors Creed" I think its called. Every life is the same life. Every mind is born the same but becomes unique from its environment. The shortest life is the same as the longest life.
 

skunkushybrid

New Member
Im sorry i wont (for times sake) back up my opinion with examples at this time, but you do not have a reborn mind. u do think with boundaries, rather obvious, constricting ones at that.
My mind is closed to bullshit. This is my boundary. Reborn, is definitely the wrong word as I have never had religion. I just like it because religious people use it a lot. The only boundary is that I KNOW there is no god. I don't just believe, I know. Ah, other boundaries include ghosts, Alien landings on Earth, and Uri Gellar.

How can I know?

The answer is really rather simple... I KNOW there is no god just as I KNOW there is no tooth fairy or santa claus. Can you KNOW that santa claus doesn't exist?

Perception and truth are different. You can perceive something to be true but this does not make it truth. It may even make it real to you, make it a truth that only you see. This is not truth it is insanity.
 

frthnkr85

Well-Known Member
maybe we are all a little insane buddy... but i accept what i know to be true just as you do... how do i know there is a god... the part of me that is alive can feel it... santa clause and the tooth fairy are man made on this earth... you can trace the stories back to their origins and factually prove them wrong... they have not been around all that long... a few hundred years at most... but the idea of a god or gods has existed since man started to put ideas on paper... what is your definition of a god... you say you know things and analyze but you forget a key element to this conversation... We are talking about the universe... which means you lose... because unless you can know all thats out there or answer the 2 big questions (How? & Why?) then your assertion that the idea of god or the existance of such can't be holds no water... for you haven't been able to analyse all of the evidence and so you can't even make an educated guess... the only way you or the human race will ever have a chance of reaching the stars is by leaving your mind open to EVERY LAST possibility!!! If someone one day doesn't wake up and say humans can move the speed of light i know it can be done!!! then it will never happen... If someone Hadn't woken up in the past and said I know humans can harness the energy of the earth i just have to examine this lightning to see how it can be done!!! then we would have no electricity... you see sometimes crazy ideas that don't seem possible are made possible by human desire and a certain degree of intelligence... and the last part is that we are able to pass on knowledge because of our tie to eternity and the universe... no matter how smart you think monkeys are or how much you believe in evolution... mark my words it will never happen... the earth has been around for a very very very long time and it hasn't happened yet except once...there is a reason for that... and preo that giraffe thing...funny
 
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