The "OFFICIAL" cast your VOTE on PROP 19 thread

[fdd2blk]

no one is demanding perfection.

when you grasp at straws, you end up with straws.

 

[abe23]

you clearly said COPS. i even quoted it and highlighted it in RED. i was replying to you saying the COPS would have a hard time fucking with you. just like they have a hard time fucking with drunks.

focus.

Ok....

When was the last time your local police department raided your booze cabinet...?

I still don't understand how NOT having a law that allows to smoke and grow recreationally (albeit with some strings attached) is preferable to having one...

 

[fdd2blk]

Ok....

When was the last time your local police department raided your booze cabinet...?

I still don't understand how NOT having a law that allows to smoke and grow recreationally (albeit with some strings attached) is preferable to having one...

so you're telling me cops don't fuck with drunks?

i'm not talking about the law. i'm talking about the fact that you said "COPS would have a hard time fucking with you".

NO, they will not. cops will ALWAYS find a reason to fuck with you. people gonna get all cocky if this passes and the COPS will LOVE it. they will hassle and harass EVERYONE they can. most of them are against this prop to begin with. and now that joe stoner thinks it's cool to smoke in public, ..... good luck.


how many of the first pot clubs were busted after 215 passed?

hella. took years for people to even overcome their fears and start going to DR's. the DR's were scared for the first 5 years. this will be no different.

 

[undertheice]

no one is demanding perfection.

when you grasp at straws, you end up with straws.

i noticed that no one was accused of grasping at straws when decriminalization and medical use were the topic. these were the real false hopes that only played into the hands of those who desired control. now that there is a chance of having our herb enter the realm of the free market, so many are coming out of the woodwork to demand all or nothing. exaggerated fears of corporate takeovers and the hidden dangers of a gradual step toward legalization are masking deeper fears that a long standing counterculture will be swallowed up by the mainstream. it seems that many are afraid of stepping out into the light, preferring to consider themselves above the necessities of the marketplace. but we already are the mainstream, our commodity has already been exposed to the corruptibility of the marketplace and we have proved ourselves to be no better than any other shopkeeper. the freewheeling days of mom and pop dealers have passed and been replaced by underground conglomerates that are just as prone to price gouging and power plays as those in the legitimate world. the opposition to prop 19 is a sham, the reasoning is unsound and the dream behind it is a figment of our imagination.

 

[fdd2blk]

prop 19 is the sham.

 

[undertheice]

prop 19 is the sham.

any law enacted in this society is a sham. it is how those laws are interpreted and enforced that have any real meaning. any adult who lives in the real world knows this and acts accordingly. the history of this country is a series of small steps forward toward liberty and equality, countered by small steps backward toward domination and blind partisanship. the leaps have always been disastrous and the sure things have always bitten us in the ass.

 

[fdd2blk]

"terror mod"?

whatever.

always an insult to get those to agree.

 

[miteubhi?]

If it passes, say hello to commercialized corporate herb.
Richard Lee will be laughing all the way to the bank!

Sham indeed fdd.

 

[undertheice]

"terror mod"?
whatever.
always an insult to get those to agree.

don't get your panties in a bunch, it was merely a jest (notice the wink in the title?). you'll easily recognize any insult i throw your way.

disagreements here are meaningless and even expected. anyone who takes them seriously should seek professional help immediately.

 

[fdd2blk]

don't get your panties in a bunch, it was merely a jest (notice the wink in the title?). you'll easily recognize any insult i throw your way.

disagreements here are meaningless and even expected. anyone who takes them seriously should seek professional help immediately.

who said my panties were in a bunch? just another jest ?

 

[Scuba]

don't get your panties in a bunch, it was merely a jest (notice the wink in the title?). you'll easily recognize any insult i throw your way.

disagreements here are meaningless and even expected. anyone who takes them seriously should seek professional help immediately.

then why do you spend so much time arguing? you talk way to much about your own self propaganda and YOUR side of the argument, and then YOU start telling US what we are thinking and why we are "really" saying no to this bill, we see the corruption that you blindly refuse to see.
aren't YOU the right one..... <.<
dont you even realize that if this bill passes it's not a FREE market anymore, open your freaking eyes

 

[undertheice]

don't you even realize that if this bill passes it's not a FREE market anymore

what now exists is a black market, nothing truly free about it. jail time, fines and fees, property confiscation and more, all this awaits those who choose to dabble in this market. we may exist in a freedom that is outside of the natural controls of established markets, but the potential price we pay is far higher than for legitimate commodities. the only alternative at present is under 215, registration and control under the authoritarian thumb of the state. i suppose we could all find someone to get us our cards and enter the rolls of medical users, but most of us are on enough lists already and such attention is seldom a good idea.

i've yet to hear any really good reason to oppose this limited legalization. i've heard the exaggerated fears and the whining of pantywaists opposed to the capitalistic reality that money will always give one an advantage, but it's all just the background noise that any rational person naturally filters out. none of it really matter to me. my garden is relatively secure. the passage of 19 would mean a little less fear and aggravation, but fear is merely something that keeps one alert and aggravation abounds. it would be nice to see our liberty expanded a bit for a change, but it seems that i am one of the few who still believe in that archaic concept and i don't really expect such a sensible stance from a society intent on enslaving itself.

 

[Keenly2]

im still not convinced (to vote no that is)

 

[Dan Kone]

im not from cali i have no idea whats going on... why do so many people think its ok to hand the stoner economy (plus our culture) over to the government so theyll tax it? they took our plant for years and years now you say its yours tax me?!?

You know that can legally tax cannabis right now without prop19 right? Some cities/counties already do.

Prop19 does not add any specific tax, since taxing cannabis is legal now prop 19 does not really add any taxes. So what do you mean by handing it over to the government? Prop 19 allows anyone in California to open up there own legal for profit business. How is that any worse than we have it now?

weed is not fucking cigaretts why forfeit our bread and butter so you can go get taxed for it at the store? if weeds decriminalized it wont be hard to find...and cheaper... and better... so the majority of these voters want to be government slaves through taxes? if we give it up people who want to make a living in the marijuana trade wont be able to, it'd be like selling cig's- thats like anti stoner you guys

Why wouldn't people be able to make a living? If you grow good weed, someone will always want to buy it. That will never change.

 

[Dan Kone]

so you're telling me cops don't fuck with drunks?

i'm not talking about the law. i'm talking about the fact that you said "COPS would have a hard time fucking with you".

NO, they will not. cops will ALWAYS find a reason to fuck with you. people gonna get all cocky if this passes and the COPS will LOVE it. they will hassle and harass EVERYONE they can. most of them are against this prop to begin with. and now that joe stoner thinks it's cool to smoke in public, ..... good luck.

The point is that cops don't kick in your door to check out your liquor cabinet, so it's unlikely they'd be at your house inspecting a grow room. Sure it can happen, but they are losing probable cause to search your house because they smell weed. So it's significantly likely to happen.

 

[fdd2blk]

what now exists is a black market, nothing truly free about it. jail time, fines and fees, property confiscation and more, all this awaits those who choose to dabble in this market. we may exist in a freedom that is outside of the natural controls of established markets, but the potential price we pay is far higher than for legitimate commodities. the only alternative at present is under 215, registration and control under the authoritarian thumb of the state. i suppose we could all find someone to get us our cards and enter the rolls of medical users, but most of us are on enough lists already and such attention is seldom a good idea.

i've yet to hear any really good reason to oppose this limited legalization. i've heard the exaggerated fears and the whining of pantywaists opposed to the capitalistic reality that money will always give one an advantage, but it's all just the background noise that any rational person naturally filters out. none of it really matter to me. my garden is relatively secure. the passage of 19 would mean a little less fear and aggravation, but fear is merely something that keeps one alert and aggravation abounds. it would be nice to see our liberty expanded a bit for a change, but it seems that i am one of the few who still believe in that archaic concept and i don't really expect such a sensible stance from a society intent on enslaving itself.

NONE of this will go away. in fact it may even INCREASE due to an increase in smokers. more smokers = more RULE breakers. and it's RULES you are voting YES on.

possession of an ounce or less is a TICKET right now. not jail time.


could you explain why you HAVE to throw in insults to make a valid point? it tends to discredit any validity you may have been expressing.

 

[fruitrollup]

Why wouldn't people be able to make a living? If you grow good weed, someone will always want to buy it. That will never change.[/QUOTE]

i dont know this law..so sorry... but if it becomes legal wont the government mass produce the shit out of it? if you can buy 20 joints for 6 bucks, doesnt that make it impossible for a grower as we know now to clear a profit?

 

[Hayduke]

so you're telling me cops don't fuck with drunks?

i'm not talking about the law. i'm talking about the fact that you said "COPS would have a hard time fucking with you".

NO, they will not. cops will ALWAYS find a reason to fuck with you. people gonna get all cocky if this passes and the COPS will LOVE it. they will hassle and harass EVERYONE they can. most of them are against this prop to begin with. and now that joe stoner thinks it's cool to smoke in public, ..... good luck.


how many of the first pot clubs were busted after 215 passed?

hella. took years for people to even overcome their fears and start going to DR's. the DR's were scared for the first 5 years. this will be no different.

Exactly!

any law enacted in this society is a sham. it is how those laws are interpreted and enforced that have any real meaning. any adult who lives in the real world knows this and acts accordingly. the history of this country is a series of small steps forward toward liberty and equality, countered by small steps backward toward domination and blind partisanship. the leaps have always been disastrous and the sure things have always bitten us in the ass.

Any adult who lives in the real world would consider the legalization of MJ a "leap"...one step forward and two new felonies back! Cops hate Mj and those who consume it!

The point is that cops don't kick in your door to check out your liquor cabinet, so it's unlikely they'd be at your house inspecting a grow room. Sure it can happen, but they are losing probable cause to search your house because they smell weed. So it's significantly likely to happen.

It is not a felony to drink in front of your kids...It is not even a felony to supply alcohol to minors...and here is the big one...COPS DRINK...A LOT!!!! They are not losing probable cause to search...they are GAINING probable cause...just because some may be young and short sighted...most people have children at some point...This will piss off Dudley Do-Right

What the hell was Lee thinking by adding felonies...somehow he will profit even more from this crap.

 

[medicineman]

NONE of this will go away. in fact it may even INCREASE due to an increase in smokers. more smokers = more RULE breakers. and it's RULES you are voting YES on.

possession of an ounce or less is a TICKET right now. not jail time.


could you explain why you HAVE to throw in insults to make a valid point? it tends to discredit any validity you may have been expressing.

My My, insults and yet he has not been banned. I guess one gets banned only if they insult you. Seems a bit unfair if I do say so myself. And here I thought moderators would be fair in their assesments, I guess that's what I get for thinking.

 

[Hayduke]

My My, insults and yet he has not been banned. I guess one gets banned only if they insult you. Seems a bit unfair if I do say so myself. And here I thought moderators would be fair in their assesments, I guess that's what I get for thinking.

I'm pretty sure most of those general insults were directed at fdd??? Or at least that's how I took it...I think maybe profane insults are what do it...but I really don't know...I just try not to poke the bear.