Eye Hortilux vs SunPulse - "High Times" says Hortilux=DEATH

[stubbornstoner013]

Okay so the claim goes: Eye Hortilux is the best bulb on the market. If you hadn't heard well now ya know. I myself am a believer in this . Proof is demonstrated by threads like this one: https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/355137-think-your-bulb-doesnt-matter.html .

BUT I have a growing problem in my head about this claim for two reasons:

1) Eye Hortilux recently instructed all its suppliers to stop selling to plantlightinghydroponics.com (the best and cheapest place online imo) b/c they sell their bulbs for way cheaper than everyone else and the website refused to jack up the price
2)"High Times" in its recent publication of its 'Master Growers Guide' published a lighting article in which it stated that traditionally designed bulbs (Eye Hortilux falls into this) are not designed to be operated by digital ballasts. Something to the effect of the higher frequency causes it to burn out too quickly in many cases. I haven't experienced this problem w/ Eye though yet, have you? HT went on to promote SunPulse as innovators in the field for being the first to design specific digital bulbs and supposedly they're the only ones w/ their new specific spectrum technology (they have 3K, 4K, 6.4K, and even 10k, 14k 20k). Supposedly, a combination of the first four spectrums (4 different bulbs on a light spinner) is a much closer replication of sunlight than ever previously achieved.

So what was once a firmly held belief that Eye Hortilux Super HPS was the end all be all of flower power is now just a shaky theory waiting to be left behind???????
Not to mention that I'm willing to leave the brand based solelyon what they have done to plantlightinghydro despite the amazing results they've previously given me, what do you think????

I know there are some Hortilux believers running digital ballasts that haven't heard this b4, you heard it from an international publication, not me

 

[sparkjumper]

Do you know what I think?I think High Times is just a shaky theory waiting to be left behind.I couldn't begin to count the misconceptions and outright falsehoods that rag espouses.I wonder how much SunPulse paid that rag for its endorsement..I'm not saying a horty can perform perfectly with a digital ballast,but I am saying from HTimes record I seriously doubt it.And plantlighting hydroponics isn't as good IMO as 1000bulbs.com,yet they also stopped selling 1K horties.I was told the reason when I inquired awhile ago and it had zero to do with performance using a digital ballast

 

[mrduke]

i've used hortiss in my quantum digital and had mixed results one bulb work killer for2 grows and then had two that wouldnt even makeit throught a single before burning out so for that ballast i switched to ushio. but in my mag ballast i would never run any thing other than horti.
abd as far as sunpulse there are crazy expensive like 150 minimum. there therory of have 4 different bulbs on a spinner is a good one, but we all already know that you need the entire spectrum to achive peak performance, its just noone wants to run that many light in one area . that would be 4000 in a 6x6 area kinda over kill yeah

 

[sparkjumper]

I use 1K horties to flower but my favorite veg fixture has to be my sun systems 400HPS 400MH combo.I have it next to my 1K MH veg fixture and it veges at least as well.Something about the mixed spectrum I'd trade my 1K MH for another 800W combo any day.Everyone knows horties are superior for flowering but I used to think it worked the other way also.I used to use horticultural 1K metal halides to veg with and they were a little more costly than horties!Then I got smart and realized you can veg a plant every bit as good with a commercial halide as with a horticultural one.Live and learn

 

[Dwezelitsame]

i use 250 eye and a 250 cmh love them both

me thinks that hightimes is a bunch of sellout mothers

 

[stubbornstoner013]

Do you know what I think?I think High Times is just a shaky theory waiting to be left behind.I couldn't begin to count the misconceptions and outright falsehoods that rag espouses.I wonder how much SunPulse paid that rag for its endorsement..I'm not saying a horty can perform perfectly with a digital ballast,but I am saying from HTimes record I seriously doubt it.And plantlighting hydroponics isn't as good IMO as 1000bulbs.com,yet they also stopped selling 1K horties.I was told the reason when I inquired awhile ago and it had zero to do with performance using a digital ballast

For real, if you read the article, its a company propaganda article if i've ever read one, dang world these days trying to take over our minds, stinkin Advanced Nutrients publication 'Rosebud' took over part of my mind and made me start buying their nutes lol...but ya, if SunPulse is suddenly king turd then you won't need HT to say so, we'll just know

anyone else know about this whole digital ballast & non-digital bulbs = death or had bad experiences w/ horti's and digitals?

 

[DoobieBrother]

anyone else know about this whole digital ballast & non-digital bulbs = death or had bad experiences w/ horti's and digitals?

I'm currently starting Week 4 of Flowering on my 4th grow since I started using a Galaxy 600w electronic ballast.
I use an Eye Hortilux 600w Super HPS for flowering, and a Sunmaster Cool Deluxe mH (600w) for vegging.
I've been running them since October of last year and they're both doing just fine (knock on wood).
I didn't hear about the "problem" of premature bulb failure until after I'd bought the electronic ballast.
In all honesty, I can see why a bulb would fail quickly if it was hit with 22k hertz, but I am skeptical that it is outputting 22k hertz.
I think the electricity is regulated at 22k hertz (evens out spikes & dips), but it has to output at 60 hertz.
I think the 22k hertz claim is bogus.
If someone with an osciliscope would post a vid showing the output herz as they test each electronic ballasts I will change my mind, but the hype that the bulb & ballast manufactures vomit out (whether good hype or bad hype) is mostly B.S..
22k hertz would cause near instant failure of the bulb.
Just because an electronic ballast regulates the electricity at 22k herz doesn't mean it outputs at the same 22k herz.
It would have to bring it back down to output at 60 herz.
I say this not without experience in electronics and electricity, though I have no certifications in either. My dad was a master electrician, and also an electronics wizard from back in the day when it all started up until he retired in 1997 (worked for NCR & IBM as a field technician).
I had studied both fields under his tutelage since I was knee-high to a grasshopper.
So someone show me the osciliscope testing before I believe the B.S. about it outputting at 22k hertz.
I'm not saying that bulbs haven't failed while using electronic ballasts (bulbs will fail when they feel like it, no matter the ballast), I'm just EXTREMELY skeptical that the claim of 22k herz output is true.
Also, I'm not saying that some bulbs are (or are not) designed & built better than others.
Perhaps the newer Sunpulse bulbs have heavier filaments, or more/better gases in the tubes, more metals (sodium, mercury, etc.), or better solders, etc., that may make them have a long life compared to older bulb designs (Eye Hortilux, Sunmaster, GE, Philips, etc.).
Time will tell as to their real world average lifespan.
But I've not had one problem with my Galaxy ballast & the two brands of bulbs I use (and many of us use).

 

[steampick]

Good post.

 

[gwhunran]

I used a Horti 600 HPS bulb and a digital ballast with no problems. I think some of the previous posters are correct. Probably publication bias based on ad revenue.

 

[stubbornstoner013]

another tone taken in the article besides the heavy company promotion is that there is still much innovation to be done in the way of indoor lighting
something cool about the 4 different sunpulse bulbs on a spinner: they're working on a program that adjusts the spectral outtput of each the bulbs to mimic the real sun spectrum in different geographic locations. like you wanna mimic the spectrum received on a mountainside in Afghanistan? done. at least it sounds advanced lol...practical? we'll see

 

[DoobieBrother]

another tone taken in the article besides the heavy company promotion is that there is still much innovation to be done in the way of indoor lighting
something cool about the 4 different sunpulse bulbs on a spinner: they're working on a program that adjusts the spectral outtput of each the bulbs to mimic the real sun spectrum in different geographic locations. like you wanna mimic the spectrum received on a mountainside in Afghanistan? done. at least it sounds advanced lol...practical? we'll see

That would potentially be a good thing, I would think.
Tunable spectrums would be awesome.
But I wouldn't want to be the dude up on some mountainside in Afghanistan spending months measuring the light with a spectrometer.
Talk about deadly jobs...

 

[sketchyjustin]

Let's not call B.S. simply because this information appeared in High Times. The magazine says the information first appeared in the Oct 2008 issue of Maximum Yields. The four-page article was written by Eye Hortilux. They are acknowledging this is a problem with the bulbs they and other companies--aside from Sun Pulse--produce. An engineer at Hortilux confirmed the issues and blamed a "communication gap between bulb manufacturers in the US and ballast manufacturers in Asia". Hortilux's own studies have shown a bulb life of 6-9 months with digital ballasts and a 12-16 months using the same bulbs in traditional ballasts.

A lot of people are choosing to ignore this information because they do not like High Times. High Times, as pointed out above, is not the only publication that has put this information out there. Unless someone has real hard data (NOT anecdotal BS) on hand to demonstrate otherwise, I'm going to have to believe this issue is real.

That said, the article does go overboard in hyping Sun Pulse bulbs. But then again, if they're the only company that's actually dealing with this problem, as opposed to talking about it and publishing studies, maybe they've earned some of that hype?

 

[i8urbabi]

An HPS light bulb, no matter what it is compiled of, is still a HPS bulb. A digital ballast vs. traditional ballast is not much of a battle really. Digital ballast supply whatever it is with a constant steady stream of power. A traditional ballast as we know can fall short of steady causing shorts or send a burst of power thatll blow your bulb. I feel if there is any difference at all between a Hortilux and Sun Pulse Bulb well i cant even find an HPS sun pulse only MH

 

[stubbornstoner013]

An HPS light bulb, no matter what it is compiled of, is still a HPS bulb. A digital ballast vs. traditional ballast is not much of a battle really. Digital ballast supply whatever it is with a constant steady stream of power. A traditional ballast as we know can fall short of steady causing shorts or send a burst of power thatll blow your bulb. I feel if there is any difference at all between a Hortilux and Sun Pulse Bulb well i cant even find an HPS sun pulse only MH

a digital and a magnetic ballast may be sending the same watts comparatively, but the frequency of the electricity (something i have no clue about but exists none the less) being sent by both ballasts is completely different, digital being much higher of a frequency. For whatever reason, the higher frequency shortens bulb life, supposedly

and if you'll read the whole thread you'll see sunpulse has 'advanced' past just normall hps and is now offering specific spectrums like 3k and 4k, which would resemble your common hps

 

[stubbornstoner013]

sketchyjustin-well said

 

[DoobieBrother]

Let's not call B.S. simply because this information appeared in High Times. The magazine says the information first appeared in the Oct 2008 issue of Maximum Yields. The four-page article was written by Eye Hortilux. They are acknowledging this is a problem with the bulbs they and other companies--aside from Sun Pulse--produce. An engineer at Hortilux confirmed the issues and blamed a "communication gap between bulb manufacturers in the US and ballast manufacturers in Asia". Hortilux's own studies have shown a bulb life of 6-9 months with digital ballasts and a 12-16 months using the same bulbs in traditional ballasts.

A lot of people are choosing to ignore this information because they do not like High Times. High Times, as pointed out above, is not the only publication that has put this information out there. Unless someone has real hard data (NOT anecdotal BS) on hand to demonstrate otherwise, I'm going to have to believe this issue is real.

That said, the article does go overboard in hyping Sun Pulse bulbs. But then again, if they're the only company that's actually dealing with this problem, as opposed to talking about it and publishing studies, maybe they've earned some of that hype?

To clarify my stance on the issue:
I don't read High Times, but only because I have no interest in magazines, and I truly have no opinion on their journalistic integrity.
But I have been to many of the online websites that are mis-informing people about the frequencies that are being outputted by electronic ballasts.
I do know that tech marches onward, and no major manufacturer who's in it for the long haul wants to be out of the market by putting defective products out, so I'm sure there have been many unreported revisions to electronic ballasts that alleviated the reports of extremely short lifespans for bulbs.
I may have gotten lucky, for all I know. Maybe they had a good day in the bulb factories (two different companies, by the way) and produced near perfect bulbs and I happened to get a pair that're tough as a two-bit steak.
Or they had a bad day at the bulb factory and less than optimal products were sneaking by QA and made it to the market for a short while, coincidentally, perhaps when electronic ballasts were entering the market.
Mine have been running continuously for 12 months and 5 days (which is a true fact and NOT anecdotal BS), survived numerous emergency shutdowns when a circuit breaker kept tripping randomly (an older place that had a bad wall outlet in the circuit. Outlet and circuit breaker have been replaced and problem no longer exists). Also a few power-outages thanks to the city power.
So not all bulbs will fail in the time stated by the manufacturer. And until both sides of the issue divulge their data (current data, and not from 2008 ) about their tests and methodolgy, and what they have done, or plan on doing to fix the problem, all I can go on is what is working for me. It might very well be that my next bulb will blow out in a week, a month, 3 months, 9 months etc.. And it may last 2 years. I do know that I will be replacing it right before I move my next batch into the mH vegging box just to keep close to 12 months of use maximum, and will hang onto it as a back-up bulb.
NOW, that all being said, as soon as I started reading anecdotal stories & reports of early failures, I prepared myself for bulb failure every time the lights went on, or opened my growbox to monitor things. Nerve wracking. I don't cotton to have to buy different bulbs too soon, and/or new bulbs and a standard ballast to replace my electronic until suitable bulbs are designed an manufactured at an affordable cost. I know all bulbs will fail, and I know the coatings wear out and produce less effective light, and I actually do feel lucky that mine seem to be okay.
My main issue is proof that the electronic ballasts output at 22kHz. When bulbs are designed to operate at 60Hz, getting hit with the normal amount of voltage but in high frequency burst (22kHz) will cause instantaneous failure of a bulb (possibly even catastrophic failure).
It will be interesting to find out what the real problem is, if any.
If I was to speculate, I might tend to think that the small extra bit of efficiency at voltage regulation may have slightly upped the output voltage and wasn't properly compensated for in the designs of some of the earlier electronic ballasts. Even a small increase in voltage can increase heat dramatically, which would lead to shortened bulb life as has been reported by some.
And/or maybe it was only a modest increase in hertz, and not the 22kHz I see claimed on so many websites (forums, and online resellers), that would also contribute to premature bulb failures.
Would be nice to get current and more complete info from the manufactures, but they have proprietary secrets to maintain, so we may never get a real answer, other than them saying "the problem is fixed! Buy our new bulbs/ballasts and have peace of mind!". Which I know is what SunPulse is saying (in effect), though only for certain watts and bulb types for now, and only guaranteed for certified ballasts.
In fact my lights went on 45 minutes ago, so I better go make sure they live. Fingers crossed!

***Update:
The light is alive and well. 12 months and 6 days now. Whew! Time for a bong toke. I'm not kidding when I say I expect each night for the bulb to quit!

***Should also clarify that , yes, the HPS bulb (600w Eye Hortilux Super HPS) actually has only 6 months total time in use (12 months @ 12 hours a day = 6 months actually time lit up), so the jury is still out on that one. But my vegging growbox (600w Sunmaster Cool Deluxe) has been running 24/7 for 12 months and 6 days.

 

[sleeperls93]

i cant even find an HPS sun pulse only MH

Those are the actual bulbs, I think they reffer to the 3k as a high pressure metal halide... I heard some guy at a hydro store call it that while he was trying to sell one to someone... I actually ordered one recently, got it for 100 bucks shipped!

 

[MedHeadGRWR]

From Hortilux's site
"
FAQ'sQ: Do HORTILUX lamps work on electronic/digital ballasts?
A: HORTILUX lamps work equally well as any competitive brand on electronic ballasts. Performance really depends on the quality of the electronic ballast and the ability of the ballast manufacture to produce consistently good products.

Magnetic, core and coil ballasts are made to conform to ANSI Standards. ANSI is the American National Standards Institute that establishes specifications on how specific HID lamps are to perform electrically. This designation ensures that all lamp brands work interchangeably on the ANSI compatible ballasts. For example, all major brand LU1000 lamps comply with ANSI S52, and when matched with a ballast designated ANSI S52, the consumer is assured the lamp and ballast are matched correctly. All major lamp brands currently comply with these ANSI standards, and have for decades.

[FONT=&quot]Most electronic ballasts do not comply with ANSI ratings. This means that each e.ballast brand can be different. Compound this with actual variations in the production runs from the same manufacturer/brand and you can see why system dependability is easily compromised. These are clearly NOT lamp issues but ballast challenges to be improved upon. If you chose to operate our lamp on a ballast that does not meet these ANSI specifications, lamp life and performance MAY be dramatically reduced. Since the quality of artificial light is paramount to successful plant photosynthesis and optimum growth, it would seem ill-advised to compromise lamp performance in favor of unproven ballast technology.[/FONT]
"

 

[[email protected]]

some one dug this up on another forum.... Hope it answers some of your questions


There are compatibility issues with the 600 watt bulbs;

"My name is Jason and I am the founder of Lumatek Electronic ballasts. We try to stay away from these forums but I think this is important. Some customers are currently experiencing problems when using some 600 watt lamps. I do want to point out that the Hortilux Solarmax Grolux issue applies to ALL brand of electronic ballasts.

The lumatek ballast is a true Eballast. It has a micro processor cpu. This cpu allows the ballast to make adjustments according to the lamp that is being used. A eballast can compensate for degrading bulbs and slight power fluctuations. It can also sense the exact specifications of the lamps it is using. the Lumatek ballast is up to 27% brighter than a core and coil ballast. We do have one problem with this technology the cpu can not detect the lamp until AFTER the initial ignition. Once the bulb is lit the ballast can then take over and drive the bulb to its exact specifications. Industry specifications for a 600 watt hps lamp call for a 4000volt ignition pulse. This is what Lumatek and all other digital ballast use for a starting voltage. Hortilux ignition used to be 2000-3000 volts even though this is less then the ignition pulse of the Lumatek we did not experience any problems with the Hortilux I have lots of customers with Hortilux lamps that are over a year old However about 6 months ago we started to notice an increase in Hortilux failures. We also noticed that the font of the text printed at the base of the bulb had changed. When we tested this lamp we found that the ignition range was lowered to 1500 volts. These new Hortilux lamps are different then the ones we originally designed the ballast with and have a higher frailer rate. The problems that customers are having are NOT a ballast problem they are a bulb problem the Hortilux 600 watt is not designed to industry specifications regarding ignition pulse. Furthermore it is also manufactured with a special gas in the arc tube that no other lamp maker in the world uses. The Hortilux lamp design is unique. We are currently adapting our ballast for this bulb it may require a switch to lower the ignition pulse for Hortilux.
Solarmax and Growlux lamps are the opposite problem these lamps require a 5000-6000 volt ignition pulse Again the standard ignition for a 600 is 4000 volts. The Lumtek ballast can light these bulbs with the 4K pulse for a while however over time the lamps degrade and they require more and more voltage to start after a few months the bulbs will not ignite in any digital ballast. "

 

[stubbornstoner013]

so your 600w Hortilux burns out on your lumatek ballast....what bulb do you buy next?